gay.

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jarrod

jarrod

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The biggest question is, when using "gay" are you referencing the stereotypical homosexual behavior, or something else?

that's a good point. in the context of the thread linked, i was referencing a homosexual stereotype which has a large foundation in personal experience (i.e., MOST effeminate men i know are gay, & MOST gay men i know are effeminate). so i was referencing a stereotype, BUT i was not placing a negative value on it.

so i guess my question is, do we have to ignore stereotypes just because some are offended by them? or is part of the benefit of having these types of conversations addressing these stereotypes & even possibly making a little fun of them?

personally i think some of the reactions to my comments were a bit telling. at no point did i indicate that gay was bad, or that effeminate was bad. but casually refering to something as gay automatically led some to assume that i meant gay=bad, which was never the case.

jf
 

jks9199

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I don't mean this as a personal reply to you, but rather as a way to address your question.

It's all in how a person is using the word. If I see something stupid, or lame, and I call it gay, then yes, that's offensive. Because in my mind, and by my actions, I'm equating homosexuality with being stupid or lame. If I see two guys making out, and I say, "hey, I think those guys are gay," that isn't offensive, even if it's also none of my business, because they may very well be. Unless of course when I said it I wasn't referring to their sexual preference, but rather something I thought was stupid or lame about what they were doing.

Get it?

Like if someone saw something disgusting and said, "Oh man, that's totally Kenpo. Like that's so Kenpo it's Ed Parker. That's the most Kenpo thing I've ever seen." Then I think Kenpo guys and gals would have a right to be offended, because it's equating what they are with something disgusting.

It might not be offensive to you, or your buddies, or even your homosexual buddies, but that doesn't mean it isn't an objectively offensive thing to say.

Political correctness doesn't have anything to do with it. Class. Dignity. Environmental awareness. Those do.

So know your audience and pick your words carefully, or go around pissing people off and claiming your right to free speach.

We all have the right to be an ***, and everyone else has the right to judge and censure us for it.


-Rob
Or, in another example of speech unconsciously shaping our thoughts...

On one occasion, my brother described someone trying to haggle him down on a price for services thusly, "They tried to jew me out of..."

I took offense. I'm not Jewish. The stereotype of the cheap Jew has been perpetuated for ages... but it's a hateful stereotype. I called my brother on it... We don't need to tolerate that, because everytime we do, we reinforce those stereotypes.

Or... in a humorous example... there was the story of my dad's cousin, whose last name ended in -ski. My dad's side of the family is Irish; my grandfather emigrated in the 1930s. The part of Ohio where my dad grew up had a heavy Irish neighborhood working in the steel mills. There was also a large Polish community... and somehow, they came together for my dad's cousin's family -- but they lived in the Irish part of town. One day, his cousin goes in and tells his dad the funny Polack joke he heard at school... Somehow, his dad didn't find the joke so funny. :shrug:

Jarrod, the problem wasn't the words per se. It's the invisible, unthinking stereotype that accompanied them. I too thought that the guy doing a competitive aerobics/cheerleader routine was ridiculous. But I can say that; I don't have to say "it's gay."
 
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jarrod

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Jarrod, the problem wasn't the words per se. It's the invisible, unthinking stereotype that accompanied them. I too thought that the guy doing a competitive aerobics/cheerleader routine was ridiculous. But I can say that; I don't have to say "it's gay."

but that's just it: i didn't think it was ridiculous. i just thought it looked effeminate. if someone was doing something i found objectionable & i called it gay, i could understand some outcry, such as in the "jew me down" example. & i think that's part of the problem; we've become so sensitive to offending people that we assume certain words carry derogatory undertones even when they don't.

jf
 

MA-Caver

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I watch a lot of old movies (from the 30's 40's and 50's) and I hear the word Gay all the time. Natalie Wood sang that she wanted to be happy and gay in West Side Story. I remember an episode of WKRP in Cincinnati where one of the characters was accused of being homosexual because one reporter asked another about Lester: "queer little fellow isn't he?" and a sports star mis-understood the connotation of the word queer.

I don't think the word Gay is as taboo in relation to homosexuality as one might think it is. But now it's being used as a punch line in some cases, i.e. Shawn Of The Dead where Shawn's friend, Ed, would call him "gay" whenever Shawn told him "I love you man!" But then again Ed was a lovable crass SOB character anyway.

Some folks still take things far too seriously I think. "Spoiled brats" I call 'em.


Is this picture gay-bashing or is it just a joke?
 

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Cryozombie

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The problem, as I see it, is that if you come right down to it, anybody can find somthing offensive if they want.

I've been chastized for using the term "Rugrats" and "Snotlings" to describe children... and one of those terms, is a popular cartoon abouty children for cryin' out loud!

I've seen Homosexuals upset about the word "Homo". I've seen Jewish people upset by the word Jew. I often call myself a Mic, because I am, but some Irish FREAK if you use that word. Hell... I'll probably hear from some carnival sideshow worker about the fact I just used the word FREAK.

In the end, however, one Political Speaker I saw years ago who did an opening act for Jello Biafra said it best. I can't repeat the whole thing, for fear of Offending someone, but it goes like this:

He's on stage and hes looking out at the audience... spots a black man and points and says, well, you know. Everyone starts yelling at him, and he keeps repeating it. Then he points at someone else, and uses a derogatory term for someone from south of our border. Then back to the black man, and then on to the new one. Then he points at someone else and calls them a "gay" in a deroggatory term. And he keeps cycling thru it. The crowd is upset and unruly and it goes on for some time. Eventually most of the crowd started ignoring it and the thunderous offense slowed, and he was largly being ignored, when he stopped, and after a short bit of silence he yelled out:

"You SEE! When you hear em enough, they just become WORDS!"

I think Words are only offensive if we let them be. Sure, people use them to try and do harm, but the harm only occurs if we choose to allow it. You can call me a MIC with all the spite and venom you want... I'm gonna look at you and say "So?"

So, Perhaps "Gay" is offensive, because someone wants to be offended.
 

girlbug2

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I would say it's a joke poking fun at --not bashing -- jiu jitsu. Or, maybe it's a roundabout way of poking fun at homophobia. It's funny to me, but then I don't do jiu jitsu. I would hope however that jiu jitsu practicioners wouldn't take it too seriously.
 

shesulsa

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It's all in how a person is using the word. If I see something stupid, or lame, and I call it gay, then yes, that's offensive. Because in my mind, and by my actions, I'm equating homosexuality with being stupid or lame. If I see two guys making out, and I say, "hey, I think those guys are gay," that isn't offensive, even if it's also none of my business, because they may very well be. Unless of course when I said it I wasn't referring to their sexual preference, but rather something I thought was stupid or lame about what they were doing.

Get it?

but that's just it: i didn't think it was ridiculous. i just thought it looked effeminate. if someone was doing something i found objectionable & i called it gay, i could understand some outcry, such as in the "jew me down" example. & i think that's part of the problem; we've become so sensitive to offending people that we assume certain words carry derogatory undertones even when they don't.


Try this one on for size just as a comparison: "retarded."

There is nothing wrong with the word "retarded" as it applies to its medical definition; it is a label used to describe a particular condition where one's intelligence development is slowed or reduced via a medical condition. It is actually a place some parents of developmentally challenged children want for their children to be, on paper, because it means a host of procedural safeguards for their socio-economic group that they would otherwise not be entitled to even though their needs for such would be clearly defined. It is an unenviable-by-most delineation.

But if Bill Gates tripped over his own shoelaces, knocked his teeth out, took out a few paparazzi in the process and an action picture of his surprised, sprawling frame graced the front of tabloids, people would likely be calling him "retarded."

It is inaccurate - and offensive to those who have to *really* deal with the problems that word denotes.

I guess the litmus test is this one: if you would be offended by someone else calling you that, then don't call anyone else that.

;)
 

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Gay really is the new Black. Attitudes that became unacceptable some decades back towards Jews or Blacks are still acceptable towards gays. The same arguments that were used against my father-in-law in 1960, Rosa Parks in 1955 or Mildred and Richard Loving in 1967 are taken out and dusted off for the queers today.
 

Andy Moynihan

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I have often heard the expression "If you can't say something nice about someone, say nothing at all".

However, not being perfect or in the least bit saintly, I must admit that were this ever to be enforced, I'd basically have to take a vow of silence.
 

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If you can't say anything nice about someone say it to the Enquirer
 

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There was an episode of WKRP where someone in referencing Les said "Queer little fellow", meaning odd. Unfortunately, Folks started thinking he was homosexual, and it wasn't a happy time for him.

In an episode of CSI a cowhand refers to a murdered Downs Syndome sufferer as "Retarded". When the same cowhand is fingered as the killer, Grissom's line is "By the way, the definition of the word "retard" is "to hinder" or "to hold someone back." I think your life is about to become 'retarded'."


Think about it.
 
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jarrod

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Did a light come on there?

lol, only in sarcasm land. grappling gets called gay all the time, doesn't bother me in the least. being called straight doesn't bother me either.

did have a gay guy call me a breeder once, which is unfair since i don't have any kids.

btw, if i were gay, i would be fabulous :D

jf
 

Bob Hubbard

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In honor of this thread, and the numerous misunderstandings, etc, I did a catwalk strut down a supermarket isle an hour ago. My GF laughed her *** off. (For those who haven't seen me, picture Silent Bob doing the model strut.)
 
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jarrod

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lol! my previous jujitsu coach is 6'2", 300lbs, has a shaved head, goatee, & many visible tattoos that look like they might have been done in prison. & he can do a dead on rendition of big gay al's theme from south park.

"i'm th-upeeeeeerr, thankth for ath-kiiiiiiiing!"

jf
 

MA-Caver

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I have often heard the expression "If you can't say something nice about someone, say nothing at all".
You probably first heard it from Thumper, the cute widdle wabbit in the movie Bambi.

There was an episode of WKRP where someone in referencing Les said "Queer little fellow", meaning odd. Unfortunately, Folks started thinking he was homosexual, and it wasn't a happy time for him.
I think I mentioned this in my earlier reply... the one you gave thanks to? You DID read it ... didn't you? :rolleyes:
 

Bob Hubbard

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You probably first heard it from Thumper, the cute widdle wabbit in the movie Bambi.


I think I mentioned this in my earlier reply... the one you gave thanks to? You DID read it ... didn't you? :rolleyes:
I speed read most of the time, and will admit to having missed that bit on first read.
 
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