Your Rights Online: London Police Seek To Install CCTV In Pubs

Bob Hubbard

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Your Rights Online: London Police Seek To Install CCTV In Pubs on Sunday February 22, @04:33AM

Posted by timothy on Sunday February 22, @04:33AM
from the well-they-do-call-it-a-public-house dept.

JCWDenton writes "The Met Police got a short sharp rap over the knuckles yesterday, as the Office of the Information Commissioner questioned what looks very much like a blanket policy to force CCTV onto public houses in certain parts of London. The story begins with a letter to the Guardian last week, from Nick Gibson. He is currently renovating Islington pub The Drapers Arms, after its previous owners allowed it to go insolvent and then disappeared. In his letter, he argues that if he had merely taken over an existing licence, the police could not have imposed any additional conditions. However, because this was now a new licence, the police were able to make specific requests, including one particular request in respect of installing CCTV."



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Tez3

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It was only because the barmaids were going to be topless.........
 

CanuckMA

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CCTV can be useful in identifying suspects. Asking a business owner to install such a system is not an unreasonable request.

HOWEVER, the feed must stay in sole possession of the pub owner, and only shared with police if a crime was commited and should not be a condition of granting a license.
 

Tez3

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Actually a lot of pubs, shops, garages etc have CCTV put there by the owners. People are demanding CCTV and councils are finding it hard in the economic times to keep up with the demand.
We have laws to protect people including the Data Protection Act which lays down who can see the tapes and under what circumstances.
 

MA-Caver

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Actually a lot of pubs, shops, garages etc have CCTV put there by the owners. People are demanding CCTV and councils are finding it hard in the economic times to keep up with the demand.
We have laws to protect people including the Data Protection Act which lays down who can see the tapes and under what circumstances.
Well yeah but who's going to actually enforce that? Once it's in there it's fair game to covert operations to hack into it.

Wonders how long before this is going to be enacted here in the States?
Betcha Dubya is thinking..."dang, wish I thought of that!" probably did just was too busy with other stuff.
 

Tez3

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Well yeah but who's going to actually enforce that? Once it's in there it's fair game to covert operations to hack into it.

Wonders how long before this is going to be enacted here in the States?
Betcha Dubya is thinking..."dang, wish I thought of that!" probably did just was too busy with other stuff.[/quote

I think again the perception abroad on the CCTV thing here is somewhat skewed by whoever is reporting on it. Of course the police want as much help as possible and of course Guardian readers will be up in arms. it's what they do.
However the usefulness of CCTV can't be underestimated. The Data protection act is adhered to far better than you'd imagine.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1561363/Rhys-Jones's-killer-caught-on-CCTV.html

People are aware of the implications using CCTV and the pros and cons. The question is....if you or a loved one are being mugged, attacked etc and the CCTV operators pick it up and send the police to help you are you still going to say it's an invasion of privacy or do you reckon the trade off of your safety is worth being watched shopping or walking down the street.
http://www.footprintsecurity.com.au/z_art_070119_%20105,000_crimes_caught_on_CCTV.php


Have you ever considered that perhaps some on here may be overly paranoid about covert ops, liberals and people spying on you etc?
 

Deaf Smith

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CCTV can be useful in identifying suspects. Asking a business owner to install such a system is not an unreasonable request.

HOWEVER, the feed must stay in sole possession of the pub owner, and only shared with police if a crime was commited and should not be a condition of granting a license.

Dream on Canuck. They will use this as an excuse to put them in other places. Feed stay in sole posessession of the pub owner? Only for a little while. Later the law will be changed for it to go the 'authorities'.

It's called increatmentalism Canuck. Small steps. Let the populance get used to some new chains before they start adding more. In 30 years expect all of Britian to have CCTV everywhere except in the actual homes (unless you have a record, then they might even have them there.)

Fahrenheit 451 and 1984 combined. Just give them time. Crime will be their excuse but control will be their reason.

Deaf
 

Tez3

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Dream on Canuck. They will use this as an excuse to put them in other places. Feed stay in sole posessession of the pub owner? Only for a little while. Later the law will be changed for it to go the 'authorities'.

It's called increatmentalism Canuck. Small steps. Let the populance get used to some new chains before they start adding more. In 30 years expect all of Britian to have CCTV everywhere except in the actual homes (unless you have a record, then they might even have them there.)

Fahrenheit 451 and 1984 combined. Just give them time. Crime will be their excuse but control will be their reason.

Deaf

Yeah, yeah, yeah. it would be nice if you could spell Britain before criticising us though. Always it's anti British posts isn't it? The superior American warning the poor downtrodden British who don't appreciate his wise advice.
Who exactly are 'they' anyway? We have a Labour government but the local councils are different, there's Labour councils, Tory councils, Lib Dems councils, coalitions, Welsh Nationalists, Scottish Nationalists and many independants so who exactly is going to put these CCTV cameras everywhere, the government doesn't put any up, not it's job, this is all down to local councils so who exactly is going to enslave us? Do you have any idea at all about how british policitcs and governent is run?
 

MA-Caver

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Have you ever considered that perhaps some on here may be overly paranoid about covert ops, liberals and people spying on you etc?
I wouldn't say OVERLY paranoid but just a little. :) The potential for abuse is still there, and it just opens the door a little wider. Suppose I don't WANT people to know which pub I may frequent... but, there I am, even though they're looking for someone else.

Someone on here quoted Ben Franklin in their signature (forget who)... "Those who would give up freedom for safety deserve neither" (or something like that).
 

Ramirez

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Damn! Now I cant' tell my wife I was just hanging out with a buddy from university.
 

Tez3

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I bet though you use shops, petrol stations and ATMs all the time that have CCTV, is it that it's fine in America but because someone may want CCTV in a British pub thats not alright? would it not be better to address your own privacy/security issues first before commenting on and criticising ours?
Does the fact that the police wanted it in one pub but they were denied that not convey anything? More than anything I think it suggests we aren't turning into a police state.
 

FieldDiscipline

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Dream on Canuck. They will use this as an excuse to put them in other places. Feed stay in sole posessession of the pub owner? Only for a little while. Later the law will be changed for it to go the 'authorities'.

It's called increatmentalism Canuck. Small steps. Let the populance get used to some new chains before they start adding more. In 30 years expect all of Britian to have CCTV everywhere except in the actual homes (unless you have a record, then they might even have them there.)

Fahrenheit 451 and 1984 combined. Just give them time. Crime will be their excuse but control will be their reason.

Deaf

My thoughts exactly I'm afraid to say.
 

Tez3

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My thoughts exactly I'm afraid to say.

perhaps but it doesn't give him the right to constantly attack the UK. Looking at whats going on in the States would be a more profitable occupation for him that constantly getting at us.
 
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Bob Hubbard

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I make it a hobby to spot "hidden" cameras. Here's what Ive seen around me this past year or so.

At a local mall, there were a significant number of them in the concourse. Most stores also had at least 1 watching the register area.

Local bank: 3 aimed at the ATM area. 1 behind each teller. A few more around the lobby.

Walmart: 1 over each register, a number around the inside of the store, a dozen in the parking lot.

Local Supermarket: 1 over each register, a number around the inside of the store, 5 in Customer Service area.

Convenience Store: 2 by register, 1 pointed at main door, 1 in far corner of store pointed diagonal. 1 by rear loading door.

Gas Station: 1 watching front of car, 1 rear, 1 keypad for each pump (to catch gas n go drive offs). 2 visible behind registers, 2 others visible in main part of store. 2 watching entrances.

Local Hospital: 4+ per level for parking garage, 3 by each entrance/exit. 2+ in lobby, 1 by old ER entrance. 1 on street corner.

and so on.
Buffalo NY for those interested in the "where".
 

Deaf Smith

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Tez3,

It's the nature of government to want more control. Any government. Tory, Labour, Lib Dems councils, Republican, Democrate, etc...

And when one side looses power the other side inherents all the power. Works in any country, yours or ours. They just continue building on that control.

That is why we try here to limit their power (and we are not doing a good job right now.)

Increatmentalism Tez3, one law at a time.

Deaf
 

Tez3

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Tez3,

It's the nature of government to want more control. Any government. Tory, Labour, Lib Dems councils, Republican, Democrate, etc...

And when one side looses power the other side inherents all the power. Works in any country, yours or ours. They just continue building on that control.

That is why we try here to limit their power (and we are not doing a good job right now.)

Increatmentalism Tez3, one law at a time.

Deaf

But funnily enough the police didn't get to have cameras in did they?
Why the concern about us, what about your country?

Oh and we have The Monster Raving Loony Party' they actually have councillors, people do vote for them and they don't want to take over the world.
 

Ramirez

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Well supposedly if you own a cell phone they can trace wherever you are with it..but so what, they can trace me to work, home and the grocery store. It would be incredibly boring.

If they want to see what kind of beer I am ordering at a pub, I don't care either, although I can't see anyone wasting their life watching a bunch of guys drinking and watching footy on the weekend....unless of course a brawl breaks out and a crime happens.
 

Hagakure

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Actually a lot of pubs, shops, garages etc have CCTV put there by the owners. People are demanding CCTV and councils are finding it hard in the economic times to keep up with the demand.
We have laws to protect people including the Data Protection Act which lays down who can see the tapes and under what circumstances.

Ah, good point. Although, having studied the DPA (1998) a fair bit, a recent ACPOS report concluded that somewhere in the region of 90% of all CCTV cameras nationwide, did not comply with the DPA. I think they have a use, but especially with this govt that couldn't look after a box of Maltesers, I have a few issues with that.
 
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