Forums: The Pros & Cons

MJS

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I've been a member of this forum for a long time. I'm a member of a few others as well, however, MT is where I devote the majority of my time. I've had the chance to interact with many great people, some of which I've had the pleasure to meet in person, and others to speak with on the phone. I've had some fantastic debates with people on here, and while disagreements do happen, obviously, as its often hard to get the point someone is trying to make while reading vs hearing, its still all good, and theres no hard feelings. :)

IMHO, we're very fortunate to have many members here, who are willing to share their vast experience with us. We have many high ranking members in Kenpo, Arnis and other FMAs, X-Kans, ie Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan, etc. We have students who've trained or do train with or under those Masters, again, who're willing to share their knowledge with us.

Those are, IMO, just a few of the pros. However, there is always a con or 2...or 3 or more..lol, but I suppose thats to be expected. Many times you'll get people who just get that stubborn streak in them, and refuse to listen to what more skilled or knowledgeable folks have to say. They get set in their ways, they tend to misunderstand things that're said to them, they basically make a fool out of themselves. You'll get people who would rather take the advice of a dvd rather than a live teacher.

Now, one could say, "Well, aren't you giving advice over the internet, which is the same as a dvd?" I would say no. Why? Its is hard, as I said above, to read and understand what the other person is trying to say. Many times, in the Kenpo section, we have discussions on various techniques, however, everyone is already on the same page. So much like when I refer to a dvd of GM Remy Presas. I've been training in Arnis long enough to know whats going on, so I'm not learning from the tape. I have a live teacher. I refer to it, as many times, I'll watch GM Presas, how he's doing something, and then make comparisons, ask questions, etc, with my teachers.

Anyways....this thread was more of a rant than anything. :) Just thought I'd toss my opinions out. If someone else would like to add theirs in, it would be welcome. :)
 

Bob Hubbard

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A con to a forum, or any online discussion is proper reading of intent. The most common is when sarcasm, or humor is misread and a disagreement occurs.

Far outweighing that though, is the ability to look back days, weeks, even years later and reread a discussion, and recall more, or form new ideas. Hard to do that with a verbal exchange over the phone. ;)

Of course, not all forums are created equal, and some run horrible software. Take FaceBook for example. Try finding a conversation from January on your "Wall". You're there all day paging back. Here, you can do a careful time-focused search and be rereading an old debate, discussion or how-to in a few minutes.
 

ATC

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A con to a forum, or any online discussion is proper reading of intent. The most common is when sarcasm, or humor is misread and a disagreement occurs.

Far outweighing that though, is the ability to look back days, weeks, even years later and reread a discussion, and recall more, or form new ideas. Hard to do that with a verbal exchange over the phone. ;)....
Bob, you hit the nail right on the head. I can tell you that I often go back after some time has passed and re-read my own post and often find myself wondering if I wrote that. Many times I will read what I wrote thinking that at the time I put down some heavy words only to read it a few weeks later and think man this did not even make any sense. Sometimes I think someone else got my login and wrote it because I can't even see myself saying some of the words I put down.

Everyone should go back and re-read some of their older stuff, you will be amused at the least.
 

Bob Hubbard

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I've reread alot of my older posts and had to ask myself what I was drinking that day. Some were great works of art, and some...well...not so great, lol!
 

K831

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Lots of good people on this site, and it is organized better than a lot of sites I am on. Also, it is almost a social networking site, the way you can set up your page, make friends, leave comments, and give thanks and support to good posts and good posters (or just posts that suit your argument, even if you both are wrong!:))

One of the big negatives alluded to on this forum has more to do with content than anything. Let me explain;

I am on a lot of forums. Firearm forums a plenty, as well as several dirt bike and street bike forums.

Those forums have the majority of discussion based around mechanical results. As an example, a newbie on a gun forum might post and say "what is the best ccw gun for x application." without a doubt their is a little subjectivity to that, but as a whole, there are many hardware, mechanical aspects of the firearm that everyone can agree on. This is even more clear when discussing parts failure, history and use or repairs.

Same with motorcycles... many posts like "how do you install a..." or "what type of progressive valving should I look into for desert, I am getting out of MX.." these are questions that can often be answered empirically.

Posts regarding martial arts and their applications are more difficult to quantify, prove, test and explain... which is why people can get away with such ridiculous opinions regarding martial arts! :)

Martial arts also seems to be rooted a bit deeper emotionally. Lots of time, blood, sweat and tears involved, to then have someone come along and challenge your notions.
 

K-man

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I think there are many more 'pros' than 'cons'.

Con. This site is worse than alcohol, gambling, drugs or vice. It's just plain addictive!
icon10.gif



Pro. A lot of good and knowledgeable martial artists from all over the world, practising MAs, some of which I have never seen.

The opportunity to put your ideas under the microscope, or sometimes blowtorch.

A social networking site.

The first place I would look if I were going overseas and wanted to find somewhere to train.

A good source of humour on many occassions. (most of the sarcasm is deserved)

A number of people that, even though I have never met them, I think of as friends. :asian:
 

KenpoVzla

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What I love the best is the sense of belonging that a forum brings you. Discussing subjects with like minded people in an organized way is great.

The ability to ask a master or grandmaster a question is amazing, I would think the same question at another scenario would cost a lot of money + time.

Cons for me would be...post counts...they always intimidate me. My post count always seems so low :(
 

Carol

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What I love the best is the sense of belonging that a forum brings you. Discussing subjects with like minded people in an organized way is great.

The ability to ask a master or grandmaster a question is amazing, I would think the same question at another scenario would cost a lot of money + time.

Cons for me would be...post counts...they always intimidate me. My post count always seems so low :(

There's a fix for that, you know. ;)
 

Grenadier

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Anonymity is a two-way street.

On one hand, it allows the neophyte to direct his questions towards the experts, without having to meet them face to face. While it's certainly a great thing to meet the experts face to face, some people might be intimidated by such a thing. This way, they can ask their questions freely, and not have to worry about looking nervous, scared, etc., since ascii text doesn't necessarily convey such notions.

On the other hand, it also allows some individuals of interesting character, to rattle off their thoughts, without the need for restraint. For example, there may be an individual who has watched "Revenge of the Ninja" a few dozen times, along with Zatoichi a hundred times more, and suddenly thinks that he now has everything in place to start learning Ninjutsu or Japanese Sword Arts from books and videos.

The former is going to be welcomed, as long as he behaves in a rational, civil manner. Even if the speech itself sounds awkward, that's understandable, since the lack of experience certainly can excuse this.

The latter is going to be met with scorn and scoffing, unless he truly has legitimate, live training in such areas. Odds are, he'll probably discard any criticism, and not learn from it, since he really doesn't care what the experts think of him.

For the most part, I really doubt that the latter type would actually have the gall to spout off such things in the actual, physical presence of the experts.







That being said, the self-proclaimed "experts" like the example above, sometimes DO have the cajones to make their bold claims in real life...

I even had an incident in my dojo once, where I was closing up the place, and some scrawny high school kid, who was probably 90 pounds soaking wet, came in and proudly proclaimed that he could help improve the quality of our weapons training programs. He asked if he could demonstrate his sword skills, so I handed him a shinai.

He proceeded to hold it upside down, and start twirling it around, much like what you see in the "Conan the Barbarian" movies. At that point, I knew that he was of the latter type mentioned above, and said "OK, what was your actual formal training background?"

When he replied "Oh! I watch these movies and videos and can pick up everything that they teach! If you let me train in your weapons classes, then I could offer free lessons in exchange for not paying tuition!"

:uhohh:

I told him that he couldn't train weapons until he had at least progressed through a few kyu ranks in the Karate area. When he heard that, he looked disgusted and asserted "I don't need that Karate garbage! I already know everything I need, and just want to help you improve your weapons work!"

Now, mind you, my weapons expertise is in the area of the bo and sai (Yamanni Ryu), and my few months of JSA training puts me in the category of a beginner, and even that's quite a stretch. Nevertheless, this silly kid was wasting his time.

I told him thanks, but no thanks, and that he had to pay tuition. At which point, he told me he didn't have any money.

I started taking the shinai away from him, and he tightened his grip on the handle and said "Hey! Can we fight?!?"

I had to bite down to stop myself from laughing, and simply told him no, that liability reasons don't allow us to do such things with non-students.

I yanked the shinai away from him, and put it back on the sword rack, and told him that we were closing. He started dejectedly walking away, as I then walked to the changing room to change out of my gi. When he saw I was out of view, he started reaching for the shinai again, when the chief instructor (who was in the office) flat out told him not to touch those weapons.

The kid then tried his routine again, where he claimed that he was self-taught and could offer a great insight, until the chief instructor told him "Kid, you've seen too many movies." That's when he ran off into the night, never to be seen again by us.
 

K831

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Cons for me would be...post counts...they always intimidate me. My post count always seems so low :(

There is a real art to this aspect of forums. Too low and you lack credibility.. too high and you are just a NERD! ;)
 

Bob Hubbard

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There is a real art to this aspect of forums. Too low and you lack credibility.. too high and you are just a NERD! ;)
Er, ah, ee, well....ok, I admit it.....I'm a nerd!

:D
 

Disco

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Human nature being what it is, everybody wants/feels that what they have to say or contribute to a discussion is relevant and important. Some on the other hand, just want to see themselves in print, but that's the nature of the beast. The biggest con I find with a forum is anyone who sidetracks a thread from it's intended purpose, only to facilitate a personal agenda, that has nothing to do with the primary intent of the thread, gets called on it, but fails to acknowledge any transgression and just blows it off. It's difficult to continue a discussion after that.
 

Shifu Steve

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This is actually the only forum I participate in except for one that is typically just amongst people I have directly trained with. I have to say it has been a very positive experience for me and the biggest pro is seeing so many perspectives on the same topic that are well thought out. I have changed my opinion on a few things as a result of others perspectives and have been challenged to explain my own positions, a result of which has been a learning experience.

The biggest con for me is not some of the more foolish posts or misunderstandings; it really has been the great discussions that get lost in people using the topic as a soapbox to just spew information or to speak at rather than to others. Many good dialogs can get sidetracked with this and it's a shame because in some instances where I feel I have something to offer the conversation I may elect not to based on the direction it’s taken and I feel the basis for the dialog has gotten lost.

Anyhow, in general it's been a worthwhile pursuit.
 

Yondanchris

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Pros:

a diverse mix of people and arts discussing many different aspects of MA

Cons:

too many to mention, mainly unruly and ignorant (ie me) posters who think they know-it-all and are not willing to be adults and listen for a
moment and discuss whatever the topic may be.

I for one am thankful for the "masters" being on here and sharing some of their wisdom with us normal folk...

Chris
 

Blade96

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I think if a forum has a great staff (admins mods, etc) there are more pros. :) Like this forum here, MT. =] Love it here, i do!

I've been on a forum where i was cyber bullied off it because the staff most of them were useless and abusive and the members were /are just as bad as the staff.
 

KenpoVzla

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I think if a forum has a great staff (admins mods, etc) there are more pros. :) Like this forum here, MT. =] Love it here, i do!

I've been on a forum where i was cyber bullied off it because the staff most of them were useless and abusive and the members were /are just as bad as the staff.


Hmmm I think I know the feeling. Some forums are extremely rude to people no matter what. It's one of those blow-off-steam-on-the-net type of places. It's not just sarcasm, but a little more than that.

Each forum seems to have a specific audience type even under specific niches.
 

Blade96

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dunno if this makes any sense but 'nice' to me seems to come from the top down. Like if the staff is great, chances are the common users will be friendly too.

(maybe its because the staff gets to pick and choose who they want on their forum so nice staff will more likely be having more fun with their banzor button against meanies, abusers, and troublemakers.)

anyone agree (or disagree) here?
 

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