Excessive Force Or Self Defense?

[Bill Mattocks]

Your thoughts? I don't much care if a bad guy happens to cack it whilst being held for police. It is a cautionary tale though. Something to consider.

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpp/news/local/10pm/excessive-force-or-self-defense?-mfo-20110401

MEMPHIS, Tenn. - Excessive force? Memphis police have charged a law-abiding citizen in the death of a would-be intruder. Vastron Palmer is charged with reckless homicide after caught an intruder in his home.

Police say he caught Antonio Steele trying to break into his house and he stopped him, put him in a choke hold, but apparently applied too much pressure to his neck.
Steele later died.

 

[billc]

I would have to hear more about the incident before I rendered a decision. I would also like to know more about the guy who was said to be breaking into the house. Till then it would be hard to say.

 

[granfire]

here is what several ladies have been told by different police branches: Make sure he is in your house and good and dead...

 

[Twin Fist]

break into MY house and you will not make it back out.

 

[elder999]

Key words: he said he was in fear for his life.

Choke holds are tricky-especially if all you've ever done with one is hold someone until they tap or the ref stops the action.

I say just plain self-defense, and hope the guy's not in too much trouble.....

 

[Carol]

Key words: he said he was in fear for his life.

Or was he?

The uniqueness of Palmer's case is that no weapon was in his possession or that of the victim. There is no indication in the police report Steele actually threatened Palmer's life. However, the 33-year old Steele did have 3 previous arrests for aggravated burglary and a pair of arrests for aggravated assault on his rap sheet.

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpp/news/crime/man-who-killed-intruder-appears-in-court-rpt-20110406

 

[elder999]

Or was he?

Someone's breaking into the house. A scuffle ensues.

yeah......in fear for your life-or not-those are the key words.

Back in the 80's, when I was back in college on L.I., someone tried to steal a bicycle from my backporch- I caught them out of the corner of my eye, chased after them, caught them, pummeled them and held them for the cops.

The cops arrived, heard I was martial-artist, and the one cop asked, Were you in fear for your life? to which I replied,fairly emphatically, that no, I wasn't. To which the cop replied, nodding up and down vigorously and looking me in the eye,No, you didn't understand. I asked, "were you in fear for your life?"

To which I replied that I was scared ********. Instead of going to jail (this was New York, after all...) I took my bike home and had dinner.

 

[K-man]

Is a garage your home or does that make a difference? If a firearm had been used and the intruder died what would the police do?

In Australia the police would normally have to charge the person and leave the outcome to the court. The problem here would be the question of 'excessive' or 'unreasonable' force.

As Elder alluded. It's not necessarily what you do but what you say. :asian:

 

[Archangel M]

Sometimes I wonder at the "the police charged" thing in news reports. This reads that the homeowner wasn't charges till after the autopsy. That could mean that the cops laid the charge...the DA filed the charge or the DA instructed the police to file the charge.

 

[Carol]

Is a garage your home or does that make a difference? If a firearm had been used and the intruder died what would the police do?

In Australia the police would normally have to charge the person and leave the outcome to the court. The problem here would be the question of 'excessive' or 'unreasonable' force.

As Elder alluded. It's not necessarily what you do but what you say. :asian:

Generally speaking "in your home" means someplace at your legal residence. Whether you are inside or outside doesn't make a difference. As far as a firearm, if it was lawfully owned, it wouldn't make much difference (except in the press coverage).