self-Defense and the Law

MJS

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Zoran said:
An interesting article:
http://www.stratford-herald.co.uk/mainstory.php?ID=535

Is it me, or does the peace seem biased. Painting the "victim" into St. Nick, and the martial artist/bouncer/boxer into a thug. Somehow, I can't believe the story is so one sided.

It reminds me when I was bouncing when I had someone charging in with his fist raised to hit me. It was one of the few times I actually hit someone in the face at the job. He did get knocked out for a few seconds, otherwise there was no real damage. I can't help but wonder if when he fell, and cracked his skull, what the media would do with that story.

P.S.
The article says the victim was 21 stone and over 6ft. 21 stone = 294 pounds

Typical of a Newspaper to paint only half of the picture. I notice that it says nothing of what the victim was doing other than touching the dancer. Was he being aggressive in any way? Did he take a swing at the bouncers? It certainly would be interesting to hear the full story.

Mike
 

rziriak

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arnisador said:
That's a great quote. I love it.

I saw a Kenpo demonstration in college. The instructor was actually advocating gouging a person's eyes after he had been knocked to the ground, even if he was no longer able to fight, because it was essential to do the whole technique every time, and this was part of the technique. I was dumbfounded.

With most Kenpo techs we would not be able to complete the entire tech. I think it is pretty rediculous to gouge a persons eyes out if they are laying on the ground totally incapacitated. This...IMO is complete overkill. It seems you feel the same way. Most of our techs will accomplish this in the first two or three moves.

My 2 cents worth
 

Ray

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rziriak said:
I think it is pretty rediculous to gouge a persons eyes out if they are laying on the ground totally incapacitated. This...IMO is complete overkill.
You're right. It is also illegal (IMO) as it is way beyond what the law may define as "reasonable." If you've got someone incapacitated on the ground, then nothing more is reasonable. In fact, a reasonable defense might sometimes be no more than a sincere apology.
 

arnisador

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Yeah, he definitely lost me with that. I investigated the three martial arts clubs at the university my freshman year, and joined the Judo and Aikido clubs but skipped this one. (Then I hurt my wrist sparring and had to drop them!) It was clear to me that this was an unreasonable approach.

It's good to have somewhere to go if the first few techniques aren't enough...but I would imagine that in most cases the first few would decide the day, as suggested.
 
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Doc

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rziriak said:
"OverSkill" I like it!!!!
Yeah, it's a term used to cover up the fact that you really are not as skilled as you think you are. More mayhem doesn't equate to an over abundance of "skill," but a lack of same.
 

rziriak

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Doc said:
Yeah, it's a term used to cover up the fact that you really are not as skilled as you think you are. More mayhem doesn't equate to an over abundance of "skill," but a lack of same.

Ah! Thank you. Now I really do like it.

BTW, last night I did pass our latest test and received my blue. Only one seriously bruised, (thought broken at first), rib. Now I'm on my way to a seminar.

Blessings all!
 

Kacey

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teej said:
.
It all comes down controling your temper and being a responsible individual. "Responsible for you actions"
Teej

I think that this quote is they key. Also, as an instructor, I feel that I have a responsibility to teach my students when it is appropriate to use the skills they learn in class - especially as I teach children as well adults. We regularly have discussions, as part of class, about what level of force (usually by type of technique) should be used in what situation.

I realized, one day years ago, that I might have been overdoing the "don't use it unless you are physically in danger" when one of my students, then a blue belt (4th gup) about 14 years old, came to class horribly upset, with a story that started:

"I have to tell you this and I know you're going to kick me out of class for misusing TKD, but here's what happened..."

It turns out that another student in his 8th grade class had brought a tarantula to school. My student had a nearly pathological dislike of spiders, and didn't want to have anything to do with the tarantula; in addition, the owner of the spider disliked my student. In attempting to annoy him, the owner shoved the tarantula to within 2 inches of my student's face - he then shoved the other student off him; no technique, nothing but reflex - but he was convinced that he had misused what I taught and was going to be excluded from the class. So while I would rather err on the side of caution, I discovered that point that I needed to discuss the possible scenarios in more detail, and also just what constituted "misuse" of TKD - before someone DIDN'T use it when they should have.
 

RealTaiji

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It's a tedious balance. I like to each students individually; some need overskill (I like the term too) just to break shyness. Some folks would rather be throttled than hurt someone else--even a perpetrator.

Balance. The tendency, I think, is for soft folks to enjoy learning more sensitivity skills, when they really need tough work. And hard workers gravitate toward rough overskills, while they could use a bit of sensitivity.
 
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It is easy for alot of yahoos to slander and defame an individual's character, by using the internet to hide behind. I know from first hand
experience of yahoos slandering me personally. What you individuals who
slandering and defaming people via the internet can now be trace back to you people that are doing it. And once it is trace back to you, you can be
brought up on Federal Charges now and you can be sued.
I firmly believe, if you don't know the person and are going by what others have said; think about what you are doing. If have not walked a mile in their moccasins, then stay out of that person's ife. Especially you who consider yourselves computer investigators and have nothing better to do.
I have nothing to hide. If want my address just ask me. I be glad to invite you to my dojo and offer you a cup of good java; and talk with you. I
have earn my rank the hard way - by training the old way. And if you
don't know me personally and choose to judge me, I ask you this " Are
without sin". If you are without sin, then cast the first stone at me in person. And please don't try and hide your religious beliefs. I am well
aware of religious beliefs. And just maybe, I might know something about you. Think about it beforew you choose to judge someone - the street
goes both ways. My mother always taught me, if I didn't have anything
good to say about someone, it is better to just leave it alone. May you
all walk in beauty and may you all be blessed.
Respectfully,
Samuel Joseph Lonewolf, Professor of Martial Arts
 

Zoran

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It is easy for alot of yahoos to slander and defame an individual's character, by using the internet to hide behind. ..................................
Respectfully,
Samuel Joseph Lonewolf, Professor of Martial Arts

Has nothing to do with this thread's topic. Obviously, you have an axe to grind. This is MartialTalk.com, not MartialSoapbox.com.
 

Matt

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Has nothing to do with this thread's topic. Obviously, you have an axe to grind. This is MartialTalk.com, not MartialSoapbox.com.

I thought it was just me. I even went back and read the whole thread to see which part I missed. Maybe I should post my favorite brownie recipe here next - it would fit this thread just as well.
 
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Doc

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It is easy for alot of yahoos to slander and defame an individual's character, by using the internet to hide behind. I know from first hand
experience of yahoos slandering me personally. What you individuals who
slandering and defaming people via the internet can now be trace back to you people that are doing it. And once it is trace back to you, you can be
brought up on Federal Charges now and you can be sued.
I firmly believe, if you don't know the person and are going by what others have said; think about what you are doing. If have not walked a mile in their moccasins, then stay out of that person's ife. Especially you who consider yourselves computer investigators and have nothing better to do.
I have nothing to hide. If want my address just ask me. I be glad to invite you to my dojo and offer you a cup of good java; and talk with you. I
have earn my rank the hard way - by training the old way. And if you
don't know me personally and choose to judge me, I ask you this " Are
without sin". If you are without sin, then cast the first stone at me in person. And please don't try and hide your religious beliefs. I am well
aware of religious beliefs. And just maybe, I might know something about you. Think about it beforew you choose to judge someone - the street
goes both ways. My mother always taught me, if I didn't have anything
good to say about someone, it is better to just leave it alone. May you
all walk in beauty and may you all be blessed.
Respectfully,
Samuel Joseph Lonewolf, Professor of Martial Arts
I am unaware of your issues sir on the internet, but as the starter of this thread, your comments are completely out of context and inappropriate to the discussion. MartialTalk is not a place for gripe sessions of this order. I respectfully suggest you defend yourself, if you feel the need, in the same venue where the slight or problem was allowed to occur.

Respectfully,

Dr. Ron Chapél AKA
Ron Four Paws
 
OP
Doc

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I thought it was just me. I even went back and read the whole thread to see which part I missed. Maybe I should post my favorite brownie recipe here next - it would fit this thread just as well.

Uh, did you say "brownies?" The creamy, soft kind with nuts right? The kind that when they're nice and warm they .........

I apologize. I'm on a diet and sometimes I just ... well ... nevermind.
 

Monadnock

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Apparently another sokie-dokie:

http://www.tiptopwebsite.com/websites/index2.php?username=nikodoc&page=15

Appointed and given the rank of Grandmaster by the
Hawaiian Martial Arts International Society :
July 12th, 2003.
Saigo Ha Daito Ryu : Sokeship in the Martial Art
System of : Ichi Kuni Ryu Saigo Ha Daito Ryu
Aikibujutsu on : May 17,2006.
World Organizer of Martial Recognize my Sokeship on
: Sept. 13th, 2006.
Received my Grandmaster in the Art of American Kenpo
Lima Lama Fighting System August of 2006.
Receive my Dotorate of the Arts of the American Kenpo
Lima Lama Fighting System : October 2006.
Receive my 8th Dan in Hawaii Kosho Ryu Kenpo Jiu Jitsu
on : Sept. 12, 2003.
Receive Master Ranking in Pamamraaan Sa Sining At Siya
Ay Pinagkakalooban Ng Antas Na, by the International
Philippine Martial Federation by:
Grandmaster Ernesto A Presas & Grandmaster Tom Carnes
on : October 25th,1999.
Recieved Recognition of Sokeship by: World Union of
Sokes on : May 10th,2006.
I started studying martial arts on July 12, of 1957,
with my father a second generation in Goshinjitsu
black belt under Prof. John Chow Hoon, and myself a
second generation black belt under Prof. Thomas Young.
I have continously studied Hawaiian Kenpo for fifty-
one years. I also studied Hakko Ryu Jiu Jitsu and
obtain the rank of 5th Dan/Godan in 1984, from
O'Sensei Michael De Pasquale, Sr.
After studying the martial arts, I develope my own
brand/system of martial arts, which is a combination
of Aikibujitsu, Jiu Jitsu, Karate, Escrima and
American Indian ways of fighting.


And if that wasn't enough:

http://www.tiptopwebsite.com/websites/index2.php?username=nikodoc&page=3
 
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Doc

Doc

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Apparently another sokie-dokie:

http://www.tiptopwebsite.com/websites/index2.php?username=nikodoc&page=15

Appointed and given the rank of Grandmaster by the
Hawaiian Martial Arts International Society :
July 12th, 2003.
Saigo Ha Daito Ryu : Sokeship in the Martial Art
System of : Ichi Kuni Ryu Saigo Ha Daito Ryu
Aikibujutsu on : May 17,2006.
World Organizer of Martial Recognize my Sokeship on
: Sept. 13th, 2006.
Received my Grandmaster in the Art of American Kenpo
Lima Lama Fighting System August of 2006.
Receive my Dotorate of the Arts of the American Kenpo
Lima Lama Fighting System : October 2006.
Receive my 8th Dan in Hawaii Kosho Ryu Kenpo Jiu Jitsu
on : Sept. 12, 2003.
Receive Master Ranking in Pamamraaan Sa Sining At Siya
Ay Pinagkakalooban Ng Antas Na, by the International
Philippine Martial Federation by:
Grandmaster Ernesto A Presas & Grandmaster Tom Carnes
on : October 25th,1999.
Recieved Recognition of Sokeship by: World Union of
Sokes on : May 10th,2006.
I started studying martial arts on July 12, of 1957,
with my father a second generation in Goshinjitsu
black belt under Prof. John Chow Hoon, and myself a
second generation black belt under Prof. Thomas Young.
I have continously studied Hawaiian Kenpo for fifty-
one years. I also studied Hakko Ryu Jiu Jitsu and
obtain the rank of 5th Dan/Godan in 1984, from
O'Sensei Michael De Pasquale, Sr.
After studying the martial arts, I develope my own
brand/system of martial arts, which is a combination
of Aikibujitsu, Jiu Jitsu, Karate, Escrima and
American Indian ways of fighting.


And if that wasn't enough:

http://www.tiptopwebsite.com/websites/index2.php?username=nikodoc&page=3
Sir, with all due respect, your post is also out of line. Perhaps you should start a new thread and address any issues you may have, and maintain the integrity of the thread please. Let's not be kenponet here please. :)
 

Zoran

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I have to agree with Doc. Even though Lonewolf opened himself to scrutiny, this thread is not the place.

Back to the thread topic, there are a few articles that relate to martial arts and the law here.
 

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