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mango.man

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Seems nobody uses the Calendar page to announce events on this site. Just an observation. I have posted an event for the weekend of December 2nd and 3rd for those of you interested in learning the new Poomse standards.
 

terryl965

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Sir I did see it and what do you think about the new standards in TKD Poomse
 
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mango.man

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My daughter competed in the USA Poomse Team Trials in San Diego this past July. We had no idea of most of the changes until minutes before the competition began. The night before, as we were signing in, Master Jimmy Kim saw us in the lobby when he stepped out of the seminar and called my daughter over to discuss a few of the changes that he himself had just learned about.

So a few minutes before the competition began, various things were pointed out about changes to various stances, changes to assuming the joon-bi position etc. My daughter ended up placing like 16th or 17th in the trials.

As you probably know, Team USA did not get a single medal in Korea in Sept and Korea swept gold in every division.

As word spreads about the new standards, and events start using the new standards to judge competitors, I think things will get better. We are really focusing on learning the new way, but you never really know what the people judging forms in a competitive environment are going to base your poomse on, the old or the new.

That is what I like about the CTA/CUTA way of things. They have pretty much decided that competitors will be judged on new poomse standards. It is like we are learning them all over again but as long as they remain consistent, I am fine with that.

With regards to poomse being based on age division as opposed to belt, I am fine with that but only because my daughter knows all the poomse for Jrs already (Taegeuk 4 - Taebaek) I would have had a problem, and some people did at the trials if they had asked her to do a form well above her belt color that she had not already learned. There were a lot of people at the trials learning things in minutes or that just withdrew when asked to perform a poomse that they did not know.
 

exile

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As word spreads about the new standards, and events start using the new standards to judge competitors, I think things will get better. We are really focusing on learning the new way, but you never really know what the people judging forms in a competitive environment are going to base your poomse on, the old or the new.

Sorry, but... I'm baffled by this. If a tournament is held under the auspices of a WTA-affiliated organization, they should be using the current WTA standard... right? How can you have any kind of remotely credible competition when you don't know until you show up what the standard is going to be... and why does the host organization actually have any discretion in the matter? Either the new standards are official or the old ones are, but in either case, shouldn't it be clear well in advance which one you're going to be evaluated against?

Sorry to be so dense; I feel as if I must be missing something very obvious...?:confused:
 

terryl965

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No exile, some people here in America got the news about a month before the poomsae trails, you know Korea wanted to keepp it hush hush do to there advantage. Alot of competitors learn as they was walking up what changes took place and how it was going to be judge, so again advantage Korea.

Now must everybody knows about the changes and are trying to learn everything over again. Remember these are WTF changes and not WTA ot ITF or any other org.
 
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mango.man

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Here is an example as well. Our dojang is still teaching the old way. As far as the GM in our school is concerned, poomse never changes and he will teach them the way he was tought.

Now for 99% of his students, this really does not matter at this point in their developement as they are not concerned with competition and it is the GM and Masters and Instructors in the dojang that are evaluating their testings and promotions.

If any of these people go to a more current dojang or perhaps 20 years from now with they are promotion testing at KKW they will have no idea what they are doing wrong.

Then there is the 1% like my daughter, which is basically her and 2 others. These 3 are very competition oriented so they need to know both the old and the new. At the events that really mean anything to us, such as CTA/CUTA events or USAT events or WTF events, we know we need to do it the new way. At the little local events such as that put on by our GM each year and those of his buddy GMs, we know we need to do it the old way, most of the time.

It does not take long to figure out if judges in your ring are rating based on old or new criteria. I have old my daughter to watch what the people before her do and watch what scores they get and perform based on what you observe.
 

exile

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No exile, some people here in America got the news about a month before the poomsae trails, you know Korea wanted to keepp it hush hush do to there advantage. Alot of competitors learn as they was walking up what changes took place and how it was going to be judge, so again advantage Korea.

Now must everybody knows about the changes and are trying to learn everything over again. Remember these are WTF changes and not WTA ot ITF or any other org.

Terry, thanks, I was typing carelessly---I meant WTF, not WTA.

Sounds like horrible politics and zero sportsmanship... name of the game I guess... :(
 

matt.m

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There are more changes to the taegueks? I know they just changed some around in bits and pieces. Can someone direct me to a link as to what is going on please.
 
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mango.man

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There are not new changes, just rehashing the changes that were made official in Korea about a year ago but not really disseminated to the rest of the world until a few months ago.
 

exile

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Here is an example as well. Our dojang is still teaching the old way. As far as the GM in our school is concerned, poomse never changes and he will teach them the way he was tought.

Now for 99% of his students, this really does not matter at this point in their developement as they are not concerned with competition and it is the GM and Masters and Instructors in the dojang that are evaluating their testings and promotions.

If any of these people go to a more current dojang or perhaps 20 years from now with they are promotion testing at KKW they will have no idea what they are doing wrong.

Then there is the 1% like my daughter, which is basically her and 2 others. These 3 are very competition oriented so they need to know both the old and the new. At the events that really mean anything to us, such as CTA/CUTA events or USAT events or WTF events, we know we need to do it the new way. At the little local events such as that put on by our GM each year and those of his buddy GMs, we know we need to do it the old way, most of the time.

It does not take long to figure out if judges in your ring are rating based on old or new criteria. I have old my daughter to watch what the people before her do and watch what scores they get and perform based on what you observe.

It just seems crazy to me... reminiscent of the planned obsolescence that we now pretty much take for granted in everything from software apps to automobiles. The difference though is that historically the poomsae are what they are for a reason that still has living relevance---as a record of the tested technical combat toolkit of the art. These widgets and modifications sound like they've been introduced for purposes that have nothing to do with that original reason, but instead as a kind of periodic pulling of the rug out from under your competition. And in a few years, when people have finally absorbed the current changes and adapted their performance to these now-new standards, the WTF will do the same thing again, no doubt... I can just see it!
 

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