European Media Calls George W. Bush Visionary

[Steve]

I didn't say there were no conservative media sources I said most of the Major, main stream, on every TV across the land, basic stations lean to the left like ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN. Most newspapers LA Times, San Fran Chronicle, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, New York Times, Philly Inquirer, USA Today, Baltimore Sun, New York Daily news, are all left wing.

You didn't say this. You said, "Now I hardly believe that to be true by that goes to show the left leaning bias of American Media." A blanket, unqualified statement.

You're pulling the victim card, but for that to work, you'd have to show that there is no conservative voice. Clearly not the case. Just taking into consideration Murdoch's media empire that includes the NY Post, Fox News, the Wall Street Journal and a literal alphabet soup of media and financial outlets all over the globe, you've also got a very savvy, well developed network of online media outlets already mentioned (and many, many not mentioned). These include Drudge, Media Research, WorldNet Daily, and the American Daily Review. There are also newspapers including the Washington Times and the Washington Examiner, conservative magazines like the Weekly Standard and the National Review and, as you mentioned, a thriving voice on talk radio.

Spare me the pity party. You guys are not under represented in media.

 

[Empty Hands]

Spare me the pity party. You guys are not under represented in media.

Hell, the "conservative" media you quote is hardly that - it's an odd mix of reactionary and revolutionary. The "leftist" media decried here is itself fundamentally conservative. Not in the "Republican Party" sense, but in the "defenders of the status quo" sense. Profoundly cautious, profoundly deferential to government power, deferential to traditional social structures and mores, unwilling to question any of the underpinnings of our society and government, unwilling to rock the boat and potentially lose audience, and always aware of the bottom line. Most individual reporters may be Democrats or even leftists of some stripe, but the business itself is conservative to the core. When you start seeing a news station or newspaper calling for the dismantling of capitalism, questioning the role of the nuclear family in society, or railing against the Patriarchy, then you'll know you've found yourself a leftist media source. Until then, the media is a craven creature of the conservative center.

 

[ballen0351]

You didn't say this. You said, "Now I hardly believe that to be true by that goes to show the left leaning bias of American Media." A blanket, unqualified statement.

You're pulling the victim card, but for that to work, you'd have to show that there is no conservative voice. Clearly not the case. Just taking into consideration Murdoch's media empire that includes the NY Post, Fox News, the Wall Street Journal and a literal alphabet soup of media and financial outlets all over the globe, you've also got a very savvy, well developed network of online media outlets already mentioned (and many, many not mentioned). These include Drudge, Media Research, WorldNet Daily, and the American Daily Review. There are also newspapers including the Washington Times and the Washington Examiner, conservative magazines like the Weekly Standard and the National Review and, as you mentioned, a thriving voice on talk radio.

Spare me the pity party. You guys are not under represented in media.

Maybe you've had too much 4:20 time or been in 1 too many Triangles if you think you can compare the Drudge report to NBC. For your argument to work you would have to believe Drudge, and World net were on par with NBC and CBS. Most people have no idea what the Drugde report is. So when 4 of the major 5 tv stations are left leaning and 75% of all written news publications are left leaning then its not a blacket statement to say American media slants left. Look no farther then the Wisconsin protesters coverage compared to the Tea Party, or as called on MSNBC Teabaggers or CBS called a Tea Party rally "a Weekend full of un-civility" Diane Sawyer called tea partiers "A violent gang roaming the streets of Washington DC". Joy Behar on her CNN show called pro-life people "Evil, unethical, immorale, and stupid."
So no pity party here bud just facts.

 

[ballen0351]

When you start seeing a news station or newspaper calling for the dismantling of capitalism, questioning the role of the nuclear family in society, or railing against the Patriarchy, then you'll know you've found yourself a leftist media source..

I think that MSNBCs mission statement

 

[Sukerkin]

I am so glad to hear others voice the disbelief I have often felt when it is claimed that American media is Left of Centre!

If you place your 'centre' somewhere around Hitler or Ghenghis Khan then maybe that is so ... in fact didn't I read someone on here trying to say that the Nazi's were Socialists the other day!? Beggars belief into penury when I read things like that.

 

[Steve]

Hell, the "conservative" media you quote is hardly that - it's an odd mix of reactionary and revolutionary. The "leftist" media decried here is itself fundamentally conservative. Not in the "Republican Party" sense, but in the "defenders of the status quo" sense. Profoundly cautious, profoundly deferential to government power, deferential to traditional social structures and mores, unwilling to question any of the underpinnings of our society and government, unwilling to rock the boat and potentially lose audience, and always aware of the bottom line. Most individual reporters may be Democrats or even leftists of some stripe, but the business itself is conservative to the core. When you start seeing a news station or newspaper calling for the dismantling of capitalism, questioning the role of the nuclear family in society, or railing against the Patriarchy, then you'll know you've found yourself a leftist media source. Until then, the media is a craven creature of the conservative center.

Heh. True. I was going with ballen's definition of conservative. I'm trying to speak the native language.

 

[ballen0351]

Heh. True. I was going with ballen's definition of conservative. I'm trying to speak the native language.

Let me see if I can break this down so even you can understand it:
A-mer-ican me-dia s-lants left. Lo-ok no far-th-er then the Wis-con-sin pro-test-ers cover-age com-pared to the Tea Par-ty, or as call-ed on MSNBC Tea-bag-gers or CBS call-ed a Tea Par-ty ral-ly "a Week-end full of un-civ-il-ity" Di-ane Saw-yer cal-led tea part-iers "A vi-o-lent gang roam-ing the st-reets of Wash-ing-ton D-C". Joy Be-har on her CNN sh-ow call-ed pro-life pe-op-le "Ev-il, un-eth-ical, im-mor-ale, and stu-pid."

 

[Darksoul]

-Yeah, and that "Leftist" media called me unpatriotic when I disagreed with the boy king.

Andrew

 

[RandomPhantom700]

does it matter who covered it if the live shots were of 10,000 Germans holding Obama signs? My point was we hear all the time how "loved" Obama is around the world. Now I hardly believe that to be true by that goes to show the left leaning bias of American Media

Camera angles and zoom-in functions can work wonders to make 1,000 look like 10,000, or make a small crowd seem to fill a parking lot. I cannot say with specificity whether that went on in the coverage you're talking about, but just want to point out that if it appeared to be a large rally, that may very well have been the point.

 

[Steve]

Let me see if I can break this down so even you can understand it:
A-mer-ican me-dia s-lants left. Lo-ok no far-th-er then the Wis-con-sin pro-test-ers cover-age com-pared to the Tea Par-ty, or as call-ed on MSNBC Tea-bag-gers or CBS call-ed a Tea Par-ty ral-ly "a Week-end full of un-civ-il-ity" Di-ane Saw-yer cal-led tea part-iers "A vi-o-lent gang roam-ing the st-reets of Wash-ing-ton D-C". Joy Be-har on her CNN sh-ow call-ed pro-life pe-op-le "Ev-il, un-eth-ical, im-mor-ale, and stu-pid."

Sorry, but you're allegation isn't that some media is left leaning. You allege that "american media" is left leaning. I've tried to use your definitions of conservative to show you that there is a large, sophisticared, powerful conservative media network. You're just simply not victimized.

But if all you can do is be snarky and sarcastic, I understand. Its your MO.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Maybe you've had too much 4:20 time or been in 1 too many Triangles if you think you can compare the Drudge report to NBC. For your argument to work you would have to believe Drudge, and World net were on par with NBC and CBS. Most people have no idea what the Drugde report is. So when 4 of the major 5 tv stations are left leaning and 75% of all written news publications are left leaning then its not a blacket statement to say American media slants left. Look no farther then the Wisconsin protesters coverage compared to the Tea Party, or as called on MSNBC Teabaggers or CBS called a Tea Party rally "a Weekend full of un-civility" Diane Sawyer called tea partiers "A violent gang roaming the streets of Washington DC". Joy Behar on her CNN show called pro-life people "Evil, unethical, immorale, and stupid."
So no pity party here bud just facts.

You must have either missed or ignored the part where Empty specified what he meant by "conservative". He was not meaning it in the context of donky v. elephant party lines. Conservative and republican, and for that matter liberal and democrat, are only synonymous in that context. Empty specified that by "conservative", he meant the literal definition of the word: cautious, status-quo oriented, and resistant to change or averse to boundaries.

I point this out because your response seems to focus on the narrow party definition of liberal/conservative that Empty was deliberately distancing his comment from.

 

[ballen0351]

You must have either missed or ignored the part where Empty specified what he meant by "conservative". He was not meaning it in the context of donky v. elephant party lines. Conservative and republican, and for that matter liberal and democrat, are only synonymous in that context. Empty specified that by "conservative", he meant the literal definition of the word: cautious, status-quo oriented, and resistant to change or averse to boundaries.

I point this out because your response seems to focus on the narrow party definition of liberal/conservative that Empty was deliberately distancing his comment from.

And you must have missed or ignored the part where I was talking to my pal Steve in the post you quoted.

However I read what Empty wrote and I do not agree not when Major News reporters like Dan Rather put out lies about President Bush and get fired for it.

 

[Steve]

We're *sniff* pals?

Funny that you pick Drudge and NBC. I never compared the two, but you're working hard. So, I'll back up a little to try and be more clear.

1. You allege that American media has a liberal bias.
2. I point out that you, billcihak and Big Don get your news from somewhere.
3. You pull the victim card.
4. I explain that there is a sophisticated network of conservative media outlets, and gave many examples across multiple platforms.
5. You got sarcastic and snarky, and then called me your pal.

I have intentionally ignored the red herring you're throwing around about whether NBC or CBS or any of the other outlets are liberal. It's debatable, but completely irrelevant. Even if they were all as liberal as can be, you'd still have to establish that your team has no voice in the media, and that's demonstrably untrue. At best, you can assert that some media outlets in America are liberal. I'd agree.

But at least I know now that it's not intentional. I believe now that it's really an awesome example of cognitive dissonance. I'll point to this thread in the future when someone wants to know what that means.

 

[Big Don]

For all of you saying "It's just one guy..." You do understand that guy isn't the boss, and had to clear his article through multiple layers of editors and publishers, don't you?

 

[Sukerkin]

It's just one journalist putting his thoughts down on 'paper', not "just one guy", Don. I don't see why it's something that causes any surprise at all .

Papers and magazines are known to publish articles that generate comment and interest; it's their business after all. The point is that trying to depict it as evidence of a general European consensus on the wonderfulness of Mr. Bush is not really something that is going to fly.

 

[Big Don]

It's just one journalist putting his thoughts down on 'paper', not "just one guy", Don. I don't see why it's something that causes any surprise at all .

Papers and magazines are known to publish articles that generate comment and interest; it's their business after all. The point is that trying to depict it as evidence of a general European consensus on the wonderfulness of Mr. Bush is not really something that is going to fly.

Is there anything more likely to be glaringly wrong than a general consensus?

 

[ballen0351]

We're *sniff* pals?

1. You got sarcastic and snarky, and then called me your pal.

I wasn't being snarky I was trying being funny since you made the comment about speaking my language i was making a play off that. I guess it didn't come off as funny as it did in my head.

 

[ballen0351]

1. You allege that American media has a liberal bias.
2. I point out that you, billcihak and Big Don get your news from somewhere.
3. You pull the victim card.
4. I explain that there is a sophisticated network of conservative media outlets, and gave many examples across multiple platforms.
5. You got sarcastic and snarky, and then called me your pal.

#1 yes when more then half of the media is Bias then it fits. Just like saying Obama is our first black president when in only his dad was black. When I said American Media leans left I'm speaking in terms of the majority not the absolute. There are no absolutes in this world there's always an exception. However when I say media I am speaking of main stream media stuff your mommy would know like major news stations Im not talking about fringe groups like Media Matters, Drudge, Blogs, Internet chat rooms. Im talking about main stream nation wide news outlets. Like Fox, NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN.
#2 I get my news from all sources I watch MSNBC, FOX, ABC, local news channels. I listen to the Left and right stations on Sirius Radio. I cant speak for anyone else.
#3 I pulled no victim card I'm just giving my opinion
#4 you gave 1 major media source which was Fox News. Again you cant compare NBC to Hannity. You can compare NBC to FOX because they are similar size and function. You cant compare a major Media station to a small time website its not a fair comparison. Its like comparing great dane poo and a pug poo sure they are both came from dogs but they are way different size.

 

[Steve]

#1 yes when more then half of the media is Bias then it fits. Just like saying Obama is our first black president when in only his dad was black.

Hold the phone. WHAT??? Are you saying Obama isn't black? Groundbreaking news here, folks! You heard it first on MartialTalk.

Of all of the ballsy allegations I've seen casually tossed around, this one is at the top of the heap.

When I said American Media leans left I'm speaking in terms of the majority not the absolute.

Majority is impossible to quantify. Network news is dying. Print media is dying. I could easily argue that the internet presence that the conservative media has, couple with the Murdoch empire that includes a major cable news outlet reaches more people than any of the television networks you mentioned.

There are no absolutes in this world there's always an exception.

EXACTLY!

However when I say media I am speaking of main stream media stuff your mommy would know like major news stations Im not talking about fringe groups like Media Matters, Drudge, Blogs, Internet chat rooms.

I would recommend that you keep my mom out of this. Seriously. I am perfectly okay taking some personal barbs from you, but you're approaching a line I'd appreciate you respect by not crossing.

#2 I get my news from all sources I watch MSNBC, FOX, ABC, local news channels. I listen to the Left and right stations on Sirius Radio. I cant speak for anyone else.

I get my news from Comedy Central and Saturday Night Live.

#3 I pulled no victim card I'm just giving my opinion

The entire "left leaning" media argument is just conservatives playing the victim.

#4 you gave 1 major media source which was Fox News. Again you cant compare NBC to Hannity. You can compare NBC to FOX because they are similar size and function. You cant compare a major Media station to a small time website its not a fair comparison. Its like comparing great dane poo and a pug poo sure they are both came from dogs but they are way different size.

And once again, I ask you, are you saying you don't have a voice? That the new brand conservatives, including the tea party, has no media presence? I disagree. You're not alleging that there are some liberal media outlets. You continue to allege that there is an overarching media bias. I have given many, many examples to the contrary.

 

[ballen0351]

Hold the phone. WHAT??? Are you saying Obama isn't black? Groundbreaking news here, folks! You heard it first on MartialTalk.

Of all of the ballsy allegations I've seen casually tossed around, this one is at the top of the heap. Majority is impossible to quantify. Network news is dying. Print media is dying. I could easily argue that the internet presence that the conservative media has, couple with the Murdoch empire that includes a major cable news outlet reaches more people than any of the television networks you mentioned. EXACTLY!I would recommend that you keep my mom out of this. Seriously. I am perfectly okay taking some personal barbs from you, but you're approaching a line I'd appreciate you respect by not crossing. I get my news from Comedy Central and Saturday Night Live. The entire "left leaning" media argument is just conservatives playing the victim. And once again, I ask you, are you saying you don't have a voice? That the new brand conservatives, including the tea party, has no media presence? I disagree. You're not alleging that there are some liberal media outlets. You continue to allege that there is an overarching media bias. I have given many, many examples to the contrary.

Oh no not the "dont talk about my mom" thing. I was not saying anything negative about you mom. It was an example to say most normal people have no clue what the Drudge report is. Change it to my mom if it makes you feel better I didnt know we were still in middle school and the mere mention of the word mom was grounds to meet after school on the play ground to fight it out.

As for Obama being black to just totally deny his mother and grandparents that actually raised him just to serve some milestone in history is pretty silly.
Conservatives playing the victims huh at least they dont come up with things like the "fairness doctrine" to shut down left leaning media.

And the Tea Party coverage proves my point. Look at the difference in how tea party rallies and Left leaning causes like the union strikes in Wisconsin are covered.