Ethics in presenting self-defence advice

[TigerWoman]

Both the instructor and the student have responsibility in what they teach and what the student does with the knowledge. The instructor is a source of knowledge but not the end-all source. The student could reject his teachings, go to another school and learn another approach. He/she could watch videos, demonstrations of other martial artists, and read from the internet and books. The student after practicing the technique long and hard can figure out for himself whether it will work for him or her.

The instructor does have a responsibility, just like a doctor, to try to do no harm, (bruises withstanding though) and to instruct the student so that the self-defense he/she is learning can actually save his life. Since all students and all situations are not the same, it is up to the student to learn correctly, to practice diligently, to discern the right situation to use it, to apply the right amount of force ie. is it a neighbor pulling your arm, or a life-threat?

This is why a student should not get to black belt, advanced technique-more force, if he does not demonstrate self-control. By then he should have knowledge of technique, trained sufficiently, and be proficient in self-defense. But more important know, when to use it. When he gets attacked, it is his/her responsibility as it he is one with the attacker and the teacher is not there to save him or prevent assault charges. In our system, black belts teach self-defense to others under the auspices of a master who has twenty-five years of experience and some personal self-defense experience as well. He makes self-defense as simple as possible for the novices so that when the adrenal dump happens, they can hopefully, rely on the repetition of simple practice. All it is, is a few tools not the whole toolbox, but at least it is something for defense. For more, they need to put in the time.

Just this week, after a couple of days of self-defense, one woman comes back to me and said she used it on her husband. Gives me pause... so then I say, I hope you were gentle, with a smile. She says yes, but now he wants to join. And sure enough, he showed up at the end of class with questions. So what I am saying is that we can only give them the tools but it is theirs to do with it as they will. At least, we give them something for defense and at most we save their lives. TW

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

This arguement is transparently without merit. Any previous boxing coaches I've trained under have been boxers themselves in their younger years. A no-brainer if you've *any* desire not to get beaten to a pulp in the ring. Relevant practical [read, first-hand] experience being the question to be asked of anyone occupying an instructor's role, surely?

Same for soccer - never has a team's manager been appointed on the basis of their soccer-manual writing prowess [of course you and I can refer to that as "football" - seeing as you're from the UK too, right? I'm sure you're a big fan, eh mate? Hmmmm....]

I'd give you a rep point for effort but well... I see you got that well in hand already. Cor blimey mate, what's the weather like in the ole UK? Seen the queen lately?

I've met a few boxing coaches who lacked the physical attributes to cut it in the ring, but who had sound training practices and nutritional ideas that did allow them to train solid fighters.

As to the UK weather, I don't know. Last time I saw the Queen was on a stamp. My sincerest apologies for the deception on my public location, but some of the people on these boards "jes ain't right". I intended no offence.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Think about it? Most attackers are really bad people,(cons,criminals,gang members) who do not care about you!

Are you ready to fight back against this type of attackers? Who only wants to hurt or kill you?

Are you training for the adrenline response and the fear factor? Are you aware about the "mindset"- getting into the killer instincts?

If you think about being hurt/injury....you will bcome a victim (that's why many people do not fight back,but get injury anyway because the criminal has his way with you!

Real attacks are chaos and anything goes.........have a nice day....Aloha

 

[Flatlander]

Yes people’s inherent laziness and desire for comfort are factors in the proliferation of “easy route” (dubious) self-defence, but I think it is wholly unfair to lay the blame for attending poor training on the average student – they are attending somewhere which claims, either explicitly or by implication, to teach self-defence. Most students seem to find it very hard to spot all of the posterior talkers.

I still see this as being an attempt to shift responsibility.

The problem isn't the martial arts community, the problem is people. Some people are cheats - they peddle an inferior product so that they can get paid. Is it good business practice? No, it isn't sustainable - its the quick pay for today way of doing business. So, though it's morally corrupt, it doesn't absolve the student of their responsibility to do their own due diligence.

If I offer you a car for sale, and in the process of trying to make the sale I claim that the car is mechanically sound, do you take my word for it, or do you take the car to a mechanic for a check over?

If you're buying a house, do you take the seller's word for the condition of the house, or do you bring in a home inspector to provide you with an objective and professional opinion?

Usually, the consumer's responsibility is to do their own due diligence. Why would you suggest that this principle should not apply to martial arts?

Personally, I am wholly unconcerned with who is getting duped into believing what. If people ask for my opinion, I'll provide them with it. But I see no value in crusading for the truth in martial arts, for two reasons:

1) I am not attempting to build a business and steal a student base from somewhere else with proclamations of honesty and righteousness. I train for myself.

2) I have no sympathy for people unable to take responsibility for how they spend their own money. The resources are out there for people to make informed decisions. None greater than simple logic - will this really work? I don't know... how about we test it? Seems simple to me..... If people want to spend their money foolishly, that's really no concern of mine.

Beyond that, there are far too many people out there with 5 years of training under their belt trapsing around proclaiming that they understand the truth, and that their truth must be my truth. Knowing that, I've learned to value my own experience, and take the claims of others' with a grain of salt.

 

[kickcatcher]

You’re basically saying that martial arts (/self-defence) instructors aren’t responsible for the quality of their teaching. That’s shocking.

 

[Flatlander]

You’re basically saying that martial arts (/self-defence) instructors aren’t responsible for the quality of their teaching. That’s shocking.

No, I'm suggesting that the student is responsible for what they learn. It's really quite simple. See, they're the one that paid for a product, and that product comes without warranty.

 

[Andrew Green]

No, we are saying it is the students responsibility to decide if the quality of instruction meets there needs.

Morally it is wrong to dupe people, that is obvious. Legally you'd never be able to sort it out, how can anything be proven? It can't.

So what we are left with is the same as every other industry, there are honest people and less then honest people, good quality product and bad quality product.

But the value of a martial arts class is purely subjective. It's like saying Budweiser is responsible if they say they have the best beer and don't. Different people train for different reasons and have different tastes. For some it is nothing more then a closer to real life version of Dungeons and Dragons, and if that is what they want to do, who am I to say it is wrong?