EliteXC is in the books

[Tez3]

I'm afraid the weight issue is a big thing, a friend of mine Rosi Sexton fought Gina Careno, the weights were agreed but Gina still came in overweight. Rosi and Karl Tanswell her trainer had flown over to the States, paying for flights and accomodation themselves. When Karl queried Gina's weight he was told that if Rosi didn't fight they wouldn't get paid, it was a simple as that. If you wish I will give you Karl's details and you can ask him yourself.
There was a weight difference and yes it does make a difference. the weigh-ins ins and the fighting weight of fighters is something fighters and reputable promoters take very seriously. As you said fighters will fight at heavier than their weigh in weight so just how bigger was Gina?
I have considerable experience with weigh ins and promoting fights so please don't tell me what I think thank you. Look up Pride & Glory Ultimate Fighting on Sherdog, that's us. We've done over 30 fight nights as well as taking fighters to all the other shows in the UK as well as some in Europe.

 

[Hand Sword]

Well, I know about your issues as you have been going on about them regarding Miss Carano for some while now. You don't like her--OK, Fine! You have a right to your view. Those that do like her-they have a right to their views. As for telling you your business, Where did I do this? You want to call me out for something Miss? Why? Because you know that I'm a fan of Gina's? All I did was try to enlighten about the show and give possible reasons for what went on. I never called you out. If I did, I would directly! Don't let your hatred of her overtake your posts and make assumptions. As for the show, when marketing nationally (world wide?) as it was, your issues of concern take a back seat miss Tez. You don't like it? Don't watch! The first 2 hrs took a 2.7 Nielson rating. (4.3 million viewers!) That wasn't including the main event. By that point, it was over 4 out of a 5 share! It swept the 18-34 male range, and ratings went up every half hour! So...Guess what!!! MORE SHOWS COMING!!!! Get used to it. That's how it's going to be for the near future. It's going mainstream. Your view, is the minority and irrelevant to the bucks being generated. I feel for you too. It'as the same way that the MA's went when the watering down and marketing boom hit, and us old schoolers were left out.

 

[Tez3]

Remember also, EliteXC is also the "minor leagues" of MMA, with lesser talent. Since your audience was mainly first timers or not as avid fans, a heavily marketed product is what you get. As for the bad decisions, stoppages, etc.. I agree and was upset as well. However, upon reflection, it was on free tv! There are going to be some sort of censoring or lessening of the violent results. The sport here is growing, not in a solid view like others. As for the making weight issue, it's not as big as deal as you think. Fighters weigh in at one weight, and fight heavier frequently. I'm sure if Kaitlin was weighed at fight time, she was probably over the limit as well. There wasn't a noticeable size difference that would have played out, favoring one over another. We're talking about a few pounds give or take, not a heavyweight against a middleweight.

That's where you tell me what I think! then you continue to tell me I hate Gina Careno, I don't in the least but she is bringing womens MMA into disrepute and that annoys me. We have only 15 active female fighters in the UK and it's hard getting more women into fighting because men see womens MMA as a joke because of antics of Gina and her promoters.
If you are a fan of Gina's I can't say I knew that, I'm taking a professional view on her, her personality etc is of no interest to me.
Stop assuming I'm getting at you personally and your statisitcs mean nothing to me as I haven't the foggiest idea what you are talking about when you mention Neilsons etc.
Thank you for feeling sorry for me but I'd watch your blood pressure if I were you, you seem a tad overwrought.!

 

[Hand Sword]

Another sarcastic comment. You're a MT mentor? Well, I think you should mind yours as you are the one that addressed me directly, and with the snippy response. Then, you went off on this tangent about Gina (Yet Again!) and Poor Rosie (Yet Again!). Is that a bad thing that happened---YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the numbers game, you're a promoter for those big entitiies you say? They should mean something for you! That tells you how your promotion did. Those numbers mean that EliteXC-like it or hate it--Dominated tv-overwhelmingly! Which in turn, means more shows.

 

[Tez3]

Another sarcastic comment. You're a MT mentor? Well, I think you should mind yours as you are the one that addressed me directly, and with the snippy response. Then, you went off on this tangent about Gina (Yet Again!) and Poor Rosie (Yet Again!). Is that a bad thing that happened---YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the numbers game, you're a promoter for those big entitiies you say? They should mean something for you! That tells you how your promotion did. Those numbers mean that EliteXC-like it or hate it--Dominated tv-overwhelmingly! Which in turn, means more shows.

No I wasn't being sarcastic. No I wasn't being snippy with you. You posted after my post that 'weights were as important as you think" telling me what I think. Your responses have been sarcastic and overwrought.
I think there's little point in continuiing this discussion with you.

 

[Hand Sword]

I'm sure you weren't, not at all. My posts came after a few of you, and the you was a general you, not a specific you. Also, I know sarcastic and overwrought very well (

). I was in no way being either when I was just talking about the show and at no one specific. You addressed me and my points first--Directly! I answered you directly. You gave your snippy comments when there was no need for them, simply because you disagreed with my views? That's childish. You don't want to discuss anything with me ever again--FINE!!!!! I will be happy to oblige and put you on my ignore list. I've followed your posts for awhile and you are poster with a constant angry slant. I have no time for people like you either.

Promote your promotions the way you want, and think/believe what you will. As I said, in the bigger picture of what's going on, it means nothing.
In reality weight doesn't count anymore than any other factor does at any time. Sometimes its speed, experience, power, whatever. I constantly see the big guys get dropped by smaller people. Mr. Gracie did it constantly, when there were no weight classes as well as many others. Heavyweights can outweigh each other by 30 pounds or more. Tons of the bigger ones lose all of the time. Gina was 4.5 pounds over at weigh in and lost some of her pay for it. During the fight, whatever weight either of the ladies were, Gina appeared smaller than Kaitlin. Either way, Gina trained for three weeks, was gassed and sucking air after halfway through the first round, her movement and reaction slow, and her hands were down. ANY FIGHTER WORTH THEIR SALT would've taken advantage of it, irregardless of weight. All have failed to this point. Love it or hate it-she's the "face" of female MMA, and it's here to stay! If it bothers you as much as it has shown, fight her. You said before that you'd love to and I'm still waiting for the match. You said you were heavier. She might welcome not having to drop so much weight. Either way, for everything, BEST OF LUCK TO YOU. :asian:

 

[theletch1]

Ladies and gents this thread is getting dangerously close to a good old fashioned "Mod warning". What say we all take a deep breath, head back over to the original topic of the thread (instead of weight issues) and enjoy the polite conversation we are all so famous for.

 

[MJS]

Well, it was no UFC but IMO, this event is new, so who knows how it'll turn out in the future. My thoughts on the fights...

I missed the majority of the first one.

I thought Gina did a great job. Both fighters looked very winded. If Ginas weight was that much of a concern, someone should've said something. IIRC, wasn't she penalized or something for that?

The 2nd to last fight was good, and if it wasn't for the eye injury, I'd have loved to have seen it go on.

Kimbo...the man has some great stand up. His ground game is there, but still needs work. Of course, if he's working with Bas, it will certainly get better with time. I will admit that I was surprised that the ref didn't stop the fight when the other guy had him against the cage, elbowing him. If it wasn't for the fact that Kimbo landed a shot on that guys ear, I think if it went to a decision, it may have not worked in Kimbos favor. And speaking of ears...that was just plain nasty!! If that guy doesnt have some surgery, especially now, after getting hit there, his ear is going to look 10 times as bad than it did before.

 

[Tez3]

I gave my opinion and it's hardly fair that I should be attacked for giving my opinion. Whether you agree with it or not, it's MY opinion that's all, nothing else.

 

[punisher73]

As to the weight issue, Gina (no matter if you are a fan of hers or not) agreed to fight at a certain weight. She is a professional and bound by her professional contract. She came in almost 5 pounds over the weight. If that was ANY other professional combat sport, it WOULD be a big deal. If you really want to see more woman's MMA than it needs to be treated with more respect than a sideshow (not saying anyone here thinks this) and both contestants need to be professional and honor their agreements. Many people just want to see "two pretty girls" throwdown a la WWE bra and panty match and if all violations are just overlooked it could quickly devolve into that.

Kimbo Slice got VERY lucky. They brought in a guy who had lost 5 of his last 7 fights and was known to have a glass jaw. They are marketing Kimbo HUGE and put an opponent in front of him to make him look good. The ref stood them up when Thompson was in side control actively working, giving Kimbo another shot at knocking him out. The fight was stopped prematurely in my opinion.

Some of the other fights were good, but I think NBC tried to "sanitize" the event too much. To save looking too violent the refs were stopping things way too early. Also, many NBC affiliates would not carry the event and other areas were blacked out. I think I would prefer to watch MMA events in the WEC and UFC's fight nights.

 

[terryl965]

All I can say is bad very bad, maybe it will get better who knows.

 

[Tez3]

If you click on again to the link I posted , James Thompson has posted there, as he says though it's a short post as his long one didn't go through lol. A few different views on there, a couple from his training partners too. Some are from other fighters.
here's a link to James' press conference, looking at the ear makes you go ouch!

http://mmarated.com/users/video/163/529.html

 

[rutherford]

I thought Gina did a great job. Both fighters looked very winded. If Ginas weight was that much of a concern, someone should've said something. IIRC, wasn't she penalized or something for that?

She paid a 12.5% penalty to the other fighter out of her purse.

 

[mrhnau]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dw-kimbo060108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

[SageGhost83]

It was disappointing. The referees did a god awful job and spoiled what could've been an all-time classic (Lawler and Smith). I was surprised by Kimbo - he actually had a ground game, or at least, some semblance of one. I thought he was going to get tapped when he hit the ground for the first time. He won, but I thought that the ref stopped it too soon. Why on earth did they let a guy with a cauliflower ear in the ring in the first place? Kimbo was okay, I mean, he is new to MMA so of course he is not going to be world class even though he is hyped as such. Most of his work came out on the streets in the real world, which is personally far more impressive than doing it in a sporting environment, IMHO. He was humble and said that he has a long way to go in his sport, and I agree. Overall, the event delivered more flash than substance. If CBS was going to pick up an MMA event, it should've been Cung Le vs. Shamrock, it was a much better event and a more accurate demonstration of what MMA is all about.

 

[MJS]

She paid a 12.5% penalty to the other fighter out of her purse.

Thanks. Yeah, I remember hearing something about a penalty, but wasn't sure what it was.

Mike

 

[arnisador]

It certainly got a lot of attention. That's good for the martial arts--though not necessarily the traditional arts as we think of them!

 

[TheArtofDave]

After seeing Eltie XC it made me appreciate the UFC even more. I've been a fan of UFC since UFC 3 way back when it was just beginning to evolve, and the fights were more of the tournament style.

I do think that Elite XC had potential for its first show, and if that was their first attempt to draw in new fans of MMA they failed miserably. However because so many took an interest in the show there will be another one July 26 in what I'm only hoping will be a starch improvement over the first.

The only good fight was the girl fight. I agree. Lawler/Smith had potential but it was like every other fight stopped too soon.

Especially the Main Event of James Thompson vs Kimbo. I mean the fight should have been stopped sooner inho. There should not have been a moment where Thompson's ear did that. The fight that should have had an early stoppage was allowed to go on. Because Elite XC doesn't want to see their poster boy beaten.

With the Main Event allowed to continue it allowed Kimbo to punch Thompson in the ear enough times for it to cauliflower up. His ear was normal at the beginning of the fight. Somebody punches you in the ear enough times that can happen. I still don't understand why there wasn't a brief time out to drain that ear for Thompson to continue. I understand fighters saftey but Kimbo from a decision stand point was losing the fight. He would have had to knock out Thompson to win. Beside the ear Thompson was good to continue but because of the ear and CBS being too afraid to continue they had the promoters pull the plug on what could have been Kimbo's first defeat allowing him to work harder in the sport. Something all fighters must do.

Every fighter loses, and its rare you see one undefeated in this era. I wanted to give Elite XC a chance. But the first show just seemed like half the fights were work, and the commentary was completely horrible.

While I am a very small percentage of the viewing population I will not be giving Elite XC a second chance. My two cents. Sorry if nobody else agrees.

Sure Elite XC is the minor leagues, but if they ever expect to be seen as anything more than a "WWE Developmental camp" they better start giving us something that helps the sport.

Til that day I'll stick to the UFC, or any other credible MMA show because I'd rather watch something that helps the MMA sport come into his own. Not amateur night instead.