marlon
Master Black Belt
stupid mistake. you were lucky. Important that as a 'chief instructor' teach your students not to be stupid and make sure your instructors do the same.
Respectfully,
marlon
Don't sing it, Bring it!!!! A challenge!
- Thread starter kailat
- Start date
stupid mistake. you were lucky. Important that as a 'chief instructor' teach your students not to be stupid and make sure your instructors do the same.
Respectfully,
marlon
OP
kailat
Green Belt
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: ) well Marlon, I don't expect you to see thing in my eyes. Sure, the situation may of not been the wisest chosen strategy.. BUT I survived and went home. This is exactly what I and those who train w/ me train for.. it is our sole purpose of training..we don't train for fun of it we train to stay sharp and to survive and not be victims..
As the "chief inst" does not mean I am the messiah, and or I am those who train w/ me, thier honored supreme grand master... this just means I have more experience be it in the real world or martial arts than they do. they see me more so as a mentor and I help offer ways to counter or defend against certain attacks that they may or may not already know. When we leave and part ways we all walk seperate paths.. they go their way and I go mine.. we are all in charge of our own destiny once we seperate from training.. When we get together we get together and spar and train to take the edge and stress off from the work week and family. It is our time to take out aggression on one another so we don't have to take that aggression built up anxiety out on someone else.. it is a great stress reliever.. I've gotten calls from my guys and they've said " u know what? I've had a bad day for whatever reason and I just really need to let out some aggression can we meet up put on the gloves and head gear and go at it for a while?" I am there for them for that.. this is why I am thier head instructor.. I am their friend, first and foremost.. we don't have a classical or formal training class. we are all created equal in our training.. we don't wear belts, uniforms.. we curse and we tell stories and go out for abeer after training sometimes.. It is our own brotherhood.. Thats what KKG is.. It is not a mc Dojo, or a traditional school.. there is no money exchanged for training.... we gather to better ourselves and to help one another w/ problems and learn from one another about combat.. . I look up to my guys as they do me.. I value their decisions on situations like what happend last night.. In fact we discussed this today in training.. and in all, it was well recieved.. in fact the only slack im catching is here but thats ok.. I really don't matter and it really don't matter.. i put this out there to help others either chose to or chose not to act the same way I did... Im only human I do make mistakes..
BUT MY TRAINING Teaches us to no matter what survive at all cost.. if it was just a one on one situation.. i can guarantee w/ out a doubt I would of just probably stuffed the guy as I did and moved on.. but in the instance I was outnumbered and didn't know what their intentions were together.. Im going home.. sorry if that does not jive w/ your ways or philosophies.. thats what differs from traditional way of thinking to the non-traditonal... if it isn't what you would do.. then fine.. continue running kata.. to me we train for these exact instances... as it was always taught to me.. there are no rules in the street.. GUESS WHAT GUYS.. we were in the streets, not the dojo...
I went into defense mode and played devils advocate.. I am here to tell the story today because of my actions.. Im a survivor.. if I was not here to talk about it, well then I would of made the wrong decision..
take this message for what its worth.. and you can have your own conclusion about how I handled it.. I honestly put this on here for that very reason.. I don't mind getting chastised thats what this is for.. its a public forum.. regaurdless if I don't like what some of u say.. or think I put it out there so I have to take the good w/ the bad.. Im not on here to say Im the greatest martial artist out there and i want every follower in the world to come to me.. that is not how I work.. i could care less... i don't do martial arts to gain profit or run and operate a successful school.. if I done that and wanted to become an american IDOL then sure i'd be more proactive.. my mentality is somewhat the like the Neal Boortz (a liberal radio host) of the martial arts world.. I tell it how it is.. and if u don't like my stance on it.. then so be it.. I won't lose sleep on it... I promise nor should u..
Thank you and have a good night. I need to go to bed.. gotta work in the morning.. ; )
As the "chief inst" does not mean I am the messiah, and or I am those who train w/ me, thier honored supreme grand master... this just means I have more experience be it in the real world or martial arts than they do. they see me more so as a mentor and I help offer ways to counter or defend against certain attacks that they may or may not already know. When we leave and part ways we all walk seperate paths.. they go their way and I go mine.. we are all in charge of our own destiny once we seperate from training.. When we get together we get together and spar and train to take the edge and stress off from the work week and family. It is our time to take out aggression on one another so we don't have to take that aggression built up anxiety out on someone else.. it is a great stress reliever.. I've gotten calls from my guys and they've said " u know what? I've had a bad day for whatever reason and I just really need to let out some aggression can we meet up put on the gloves and head gear and go at it for a while?" I am there for them for that.. this is why I am thier head instructor.. I am their friend, first and foremost.. we don't have a classical or formal training class. we are all created equal in our training.. we don't wear belts, uniforms.. we curse and we tell stories and go out for abeer after training sometimes.. It is our own brotherhood.. Thats what KKG is.. It is not a mc Dojo, or a traditional school.. there is no money exchanged for training.... we gather to better ourselves and to help one another w/ problems and learn from one another about combat.. . I look up to my guys as they do me.. I value their decisions on situations like what happend last night.. In fact we discussed this today in training.. and in all, it was well recieved.. in fact the only slack im catching is here but thats ok.. I really don't matter and it really don't matter.. i put this out there to help others either chose to or chose not to act the same way I did... Im only human I do make mistakes..
BUT MY TRAINING Teaches us to no matter what survive at all cost.. if it was just a one on one situation.. i can guarantee w/ out a doubt I would of just probably stuffed the guy as I did and moved on.. but in the instance I was outnumbered and didn't know what their intentions were together.. Im going home.. sorry if that does not jive w/ your ways or philosophies.. thats what differs from traditional way of thinking to the non-traditonal... if it isn't what you would do.. then fine.. continue running kata.. to me we train for these exact instances... as it was always taught to me.. there are no rules in the street.. GUESS WHAT GUYS.. we were in the streets, not the dojo...
I went into defense mode and played devils advocate.. I am here to tell the story today because of my actions.. Im a survivor.. if I was not here to talk about it, well then I would of made the wrong decision..
take this message for what its worth.. and you can have your own conclusion about how I handled it.. I honestly put this on here for that very reason.. I don't mind getting chastised thats what this is for.. its a public forum.. regaurdless if I don't like what some of u say.. or think I put it out there so I have to take the good w/ the bad.. Im not on here to say Im the greatest martial artist out there and i want every follower in the world to come to me.. that is not how I work.. i could care less... i don't do martial arts to gain profit or run and operate a successful school.. if I done that and wanted to become an american IDOL then sure i'd be more proactive.. my mentality is somewhat the like the Neal Boortz (a liberal radio host) of the martial arts world.. I tell it how it is.. and if u don't like my stance on it.. then so be it.. I won't lose sleep on it... I promise nor should u..
Thank you and have a good night. I need to go to bed.. gotta work in the morning.. ; )
there have been some really good posts made, i just want to add one point (no pun intended). as an armed, drunk martial arts instructor who also happens to be a combat veteran & an off-duty LEO...a prosecutor would not have a hard time making you look really, really bad in court. a tac folder is one thing, but when you take a sword cane with you to party it's going to be really hard to convice a jury that you are an innocent victim.
jf
jf
Archangel M
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If I were the attorney, Id like to print out this guys posts......
Im split on the which was the worse "bad decision" here. The whole issue of being intox, not just walking away etc. OR the decision to post the enitre event, THAT NIGHT, on the internet.
I was told by a wise man that there are 4 things that can end a cops career. Women, booze, women and booze. I havent been to a bar in years, the only ones I would go to now are the quiet corner ones with few people and a dartboad. A place to talk with some friends and play some darts.
Im split on the which was the worse "bad decision" here. The whole issue of being intox, not just walking away etc. OR the decision to post the enitre event, THAT NIGHT, on the internet.
I was told by a wise man that there are 4 things that can end a cops career. Women, booze, women and booze. I havent been to a bar in years, the only ones I would go to now are the quiet corner ones with few people and a dartboad. A place to talk with some friends and play some darts.
This is food for thought for all of us. For just one minute if we park our egos, step back, and consider the context of this thread, we can see the lessons learned here.
My concern is for a fellow LEO losing his livelihood, his freedom, or worse, his life. Just because someone is an LEO, or a MA instructor does not mean they cannot fall victim from time to time to the fight between them and the system. Sometimes our preparation for violence must take into consideration that final fight. The courtroom. If we knowingly head into a place of nuisance with weapons on our person, engage in alcoholic consumption, then end up in a scuffle where that weapon makes an appearance, we did not pay enough attention to our preparation.
No one should have to "stay home" or change their way of life because of street thugs. However, if we go knowingly to where violence occurs, we must make a choice. Weapon or booze. It isnt whether this is right or wrong, its what will be the hangmans tool against us in the courtroom.
Cory obviously voiced his concern and deescalation intent to the first guy, and preemtively struck when he felt there was no chance of defusing. Running is out with friends and family, so now he is committed. When the second badguy engages, and the first guy is still down, it is still a fair fight. That guy goes down, too bad. When their intent is not changed and they get up, its 2 on 1, it stops being a self defense situation, and begins to be a survival situation. For a sober man with one knife, this would probably be a no brainer in court. Where the rub is here is the combination of multiple weapons, alcohol, and environment. I have seen this in court more times than I can recall. The DA will hammer into the jury that the combination of those things made it mutual combat and poor judgement. He only needs poor judgement to hang you.
I would not stop carrying a knife, I just would not drink with a weapon on me. Ever. Rules change when you take a drink.
The fact that we are talking about it here is a win, because nobody got cut, and Cory didnt get arrested. I venture to say that faced with the same situation that I would hope that the adrenaline did not overthrow my multiple assailant training, and if I had to switch to survival mode that I did have righteousness on my side for the court fight.
My concern is for a fellow LEO losing his livelihood, his freedom, or worse, his life. Just because someone is an LEO, or a MA instructor does not mean they cannot fall victim from time to time to the fight between them and the system. Sometimes our preparation for violence must take into consideration that final fight. The courtroom. If we knowingly head into a place of nuisance with weapons on our person, engage in alcoholic consumption, then end up in a scuffle where that weapon makes an appearance, we did not pay enough attention to our preparation.
No one should have to "stay home" or change their way of life because of street thugs. However, if we go knowingly to where violence occurs, we must make a choice. Weapon or booze. It isnt whether this is right or wrong, its what will be the hangmans tool against us in the courtroom.
Cory obviously voiced his concern and deescalation intent to the first guy, and preemtively struck when he felt there was no chance of defusing. Running is out with friends and family, so now he is committed. When the second badguy engages, and the first guy is still down, it is still a fair fight. That guy goes down, too bad. When their intent is not changed and they get up, its 2 on 1, it stops being a self defense situation, and begins to be a survival situation. For a sober man with one knife, this would probably be a no brainer in court. Where the rub is here is the combination of multiple weapons, alcohol, and environment. I have seen this in court more times than I can recall. The DA will hammer into the jury that the combination of those things made it mutual combat and poor judgement. He only needs poor judgement to hang you.
I would not stop carrying a knife, I just would not drink with a weapon on me. Ever. Rules change when you take a drink.
The fact that we are talking about it here is a win, because nobody got cut, and Cory didnt get arrested. I venture to say that faced with the same situation that I would hope that the adrenaline did not overthrow my multiple assailant training, and if I had to switch to survival mode that I did have righteousness on my side for the court fight.
kaizasosei
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Hey Kailat! Did not mean to say that you were acting silly or anything. It sounds to me that your actions were quite justified.
You know, many of us are warriors or at least aspire to be brave in situations such as your recent ordeal. I do respect you greatly as a fighter for having defended yourself so promtly. But being in a place with likeminded people has its plus side because you CAN share your stories with us. On the other side, you can expect that many of us also share the same stregths as well as struggles and issues, so it's not easy hiding anything-if there's anything worth hiding...
Probably, the one of the greatest worries i had reading your post was that you could get in trouble for having all those weapons on you....whatever though. All's well that ends well, right?
I'm proud to have such an asskicker of a partner on mt!
peace
j
You know, many of us are warriors or at least aspire to be brave in situations such as your recent ordeal. I do respect you greatly as a fighter for having defended yourself so promtly. But being in a place with likeminded people has its plus side because you CAN share your stories with us. On the other side, you can expect that many of us also share the same stregths as well as struggles and issues, so it's not easy hiding anything-if there's anything worth hiding...
Probably, the one of the greatest worries i had reading your post was that you could get in trouble for having all those weapons on you....whatever though. All's well that ends well, right?
I'm proud to have such an asskicker of a partner on mt!
peace
j
marlon
Master Black Belt
Well i thank you for sharing. i agree that wee are all human and make mistakes. Your signature says chief instructor so i took that to mean what it says at face value, which to me says you are in charge of teaching and teaching the teachers to teach. Your original post asked a question about being a killer or a warrior and some other questions. I do not think this was a warrior move. In the best of circumstances the best martial artist can fall victim to an accident, step on a rock, slip and it is over regardless of rank or training. It is best , imo, to avoid a confrontation, if possible and to de-escalate things , if possible. barring these options win at all costs. Your story has several points where everything could have been avioded or de escalated. Therefore, my point is that it was a stupid mistake (not that you are stupid, please note that) and that you were lucky..intoxicated and out numbered is a bad situation. and with my understanding of a true friend and / or chief instructor one should help others avoid such errors. Your subsequent post about posting the event here as a way for people to learn from it, i regard as very helpful and insightful. Imo, you are here today to discuss this not becuase of your actions, rather, inspite of your actions, it was not a survivor thing you did. However,as you say, we are different people and you did publically invite opinions and you do not have to like or agree with any of them. In the end we all will learn what we will from anything we are exposed to and hopefully grow from it. i know this is one of my main goals here on MT...to learn and grow.
Be well, be safe, train hard and train well
Repsectfully,
marlon
OP
kailat
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Well, first allow me to state since this keeps coming up.. the "cane sword" was just part of my costume.. I didn't even have it with me that I can recall at time of the incident.. my brother actually had it w/ him in his car as he was awaiting our arrival as we walked accross the parking lot.. so that was not even the issue.. and NO I would of not even of used it, or shown it, as it was just a costume piece that I had for the night..noone even knew it had a sword in it but me.. I gave it to my brother when he took his "intoxicated wife to the car" I told him we would be there in a few minutes as i was actually talking to another off duty officer who was hanging out at the same place...
Yes and drinking that night well, I had a few drinks by count as I stated I had 4 beers in a 5 hours time stretch. I was only drinking socially hardly intoxicated. Although yes .08 is legally intoxicated I couldn't fathom i was at that point, but i didn't take a PBT so who knows..
As far as carrying a knife is concerned I'll say this; I've carried a knife on my person probably everyday for nearly 20 something years... I can't recall a day my pocket knife doesn't go w/ me no matter where I go.. Work, Play, Church, Backyard, etc... its just part of my daily attire like someone who carries a wallet.. three things I grab before i ever walk out my door, my keys, my wallet, and my knife. Its just a part of me.. I'll make this point ONE LAST time.. please I understand I made poor judgment call in this particular case.. If I were not drinking and done the same thing I hardly think the critisism would be nearly as harsh.. but because I had it's defenitly what's impaired my logical thinking.. AND perhaps your absolutly correct. Would I have acted and done the same thing had I had nothing to drink? Honestly, I think I would have to be honest.. WHY? I'll tell you exactly why for the 3rd time. It was an instinctive response to draw an equalizer in a situation where I felt threatened... A learned and trained motor skill. When you train for 20years to engage weapons and train ths into your gross motor skills for reaction it is an almost guaranteed instinct to react to what you know.. RIGHT or WRONG, MORAL or IMMORAL it is a trained response.. I think the only way to prevent this from happening again is to "NOT" carry a knife (period)... This will prevent the incident from happening again.. I have always lived by the motto : it's better to have a knife and not need it, than to need a knife and not have it! I don't know if that is a good motto today..
And here's a good twist for u who thnk by me adding this was right or wrong! I'll say this:
I added this a because i was upset and wanted others to learn from others mistakes..and to realize a threat is around every corner so dont think for a second you can't be attacked for no reason.
B) I could of just been making this up for good conversation and to get a great thread going for sake of arguing w/ the martial talk group! ; )
C) who knows maybe I witnessed this from a distance and it happened to someone else and I just wanted to portray this happened to me and I wanted to post this to see how others reacted by putting a public servent and martial artist in that loop.. it wouldn't of made agood topic if it was just some average joe.. hell this happens every day in some neighborhoods and cities right?
D) who knows maybe it really happend!
there is no way to tell the truth as no one was there.. after all we are always told not to believe everything we read on the internet right????
I see one thing that this POST has done, it has made many think.. it has struck up a great conversation and best of all it has served a great lesson for many and has given this forum something to discuss that is worth reading and discussing rather then filling the threads w/ crappy post! ; )
enjoy your week guys.. and if we've all learned anything from this whole thread which i've enjoyed guys, seriously... think twice before u consume alcohol and carry weapons.. and if your out on a night on the town, don't think twice you cannot become a victim and "ARE U Prepared to use self defense and take a chance of going to jail for what you think is right?"
Yes and drinking that night well, I had a few drinks by count as I stated I had 4 beers in a 5 hours time stretch. I was only drinking socially hardly intoxicated. Although yes .08 is legally intoxicated I couldn't fathom i was at that point, but i didn't take a PBT so who knows..
As far as carrying a knife is concerned I'll say this; I've carried a knife on my person probably everyday for nearly 20 something years... I can't recall a day my pocket knife doesn't go w/ me no matter where I go.. Work, Play, Church, Backyard, etc... its just part of my daily attire like someone who carries a wallet.. three things I grab before i ever walk out my door, my keys, my wallet, and my knife. Its just a part of me.. I'll make this point ONE LAST time.. please I understand I made poor judgment call in this particular case.. If I were not drinking and done the same thing I hardly think the critisism would be nearly as harsh.. but because I had it's defenitly what's impaired my logical thinking.. AND perhaps your absolutly correct. Would I have acted and done the same thing had I had nothing to drink? Honestly, I think I would have to be honest.. WHY? I'll tell you exactly why for the 3rd time. It was an instinctive response to draw an equalizer in a situation where I felt threatened... A learned and trained motor skill. When you train for 20years to engage weapons and train ths into your gross motor skills for reaction it is an almost guaranteed instinct to react to what you know.. RIGHT or WRONG, MORAL or IMMORAL it is a trained response.. I think the only way to prevent this from happening again is to "NOT" carry a knife (period)... This will prevent the incident from happening again.. I have always lived by the motto : it's better to have a knife and not need it, than to need a knife and not have it! I don't know if that is a good motto today..
And here's a good twist for u who thnk by me adding this was right or wrong! I'll say this:
I added this a because i was upset and wanted others to learn from others mistakes..and to realize a threat is around every corner so dont think for a second you can't be attacked for no reason.
B) I could of just been making this up for good conversation and to get a great thread going for sake of arguing w/ the martial talk group! ; )
C) who knows maybe I witnessed this from a distance and it happened to someone else and I just wanted to portray this happened to me and I wanted to post this to see how others reacted by putting a public servent and martial artist in that loop.. it wouldn't of made agood topic if it was just some average joe.. hell this happens every day in some neighborhoods and cities right?
D) who knows maybe it really happend!
there is no way to tell the truth as no one was there.. after all we are always told not to believe everything we read on the internet right????
I see one thing that this POST has done, it has made many think.. it has struck up a great conversation and best of all it has served a great lesson for many and has given this forum something to discuss that is worth reading and discussing rather then filling the threads w/ crappy post! ; )
enjoy your week guys.. and if we've all learned anything from this whole thread which i've enjoyed guys, seriously... think twice before u consume alcohol and carry weapons.. and if your out on a night on the town, don't think twice you cannot become a victim and "ARE U Prepared to use self defense and take a chance of going to jail for what you think is right?"
marlon
Master Black Belt
Cory obviously voiced his concern and deescalation intent to the first guy, and preemtively struck when he felt there was no chance of defusing. Running is out with friends and family, so now he is committed. When the second badguy engages, and the first guy is still down, it is still a fair fight. That guy goes down, too bad. When their intent is not changed and they get up, its 2 on 1, it stops being a self defense situation, and begins to be a survival situation. For a sober man with one knife, this would probably be a no brainer in court. Where the rub is here is the combination of multiple weapons, alcohol, and environment. I have seen this in court more times than I can recall. The DA will hammer into the jury that the combination of those things made it mutual combat and poor judgement. He only needs poor judgement to hang you.
.[/quote]
perhaps i missed it but in the original post the 2 assailants were did not show any weapons and Cory was not alone. He was with buddies and his brother. Which would have made it look even worse in a court of law. I am going to leave this thread alone , i think , b/c i do not want to make it seem as though i am picking on Cory. BTW is a LEO a police officer?
respectfully,
Marlon
.[/quote]
perhaps i missed it but in the original post the 2 assailants were did not show any weapons and Cory was not alone. He was with buddies and his brother. Which would have made it look even worse in a court of law. I am going to leave this thread alone , i think , b/c i do not want to make it seem as though i am picking on Cory. BTW is a LEO a police officer?
respectfully,
Marlon
OP
kailat
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Well, i appreciate and respect your post as I do everyones on here.. It is not our place to judge another's actions.. if you were sitting on a jury trial then well we could all be judgemental then.. However, in fact these forums are exactly for these type of situations in my opinion its a martial arts forum.. learn from real world experiences... to talk and explain about martial arts and in the Self Defense part talkabout self defense situations... why fill up wasteless and endless threads talking about how to defuse or what we " would do" rather then what we did do! and how we could of changed it. By going thru the scene after the fact and discussing the instant and critisisng it, it a great thing and gathering others opinions on what could of been done differently.. that is what we call "DEBRIEFING" of an said incident or training!! basically thats what i was looking for in this post was to debrief the actions taken and discuss other course of action.. thank again
OP
kailat
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Seems there was much more going on in town that night than a little incident in the parking lot!!
according to paper a riot broke out on campus along w/ a massive fight at the fairgrounds.. where several agencies were called to dispearse the altercation;
No arrests were made at either the fairgrounds or the gas station, Sgt. Joe Kresja of the XXXX Police Department said.
You dont wade into a crowd unless youve got a lot (of officers), Kresja said, adding that because the officers were greatly outnumbered, arresting one person in a crowd could lead to the crowd rioting or attacking the officers.
hmm, when officers or anyone is outnumbered you dispearse the situation using tactics that outweight the objective there for making sure nonone gets injured!! I think that is a phenominial idea.. who would of thought of that???? Much like getting attacked in the street by two idiots and u call thier bluff by upping the anty a bit to slow them down and redirect thier thought process from harming you...
according to paper a riot broke out on campus along w/ a massive fight at the fairgrounds.. where several agencies were called to dispearse the altercation;
No arrests were made at either the fairgrounds or the gas station, Sgt. Joe Kresja of the XXXX Police Department said.
You dont wade into a crowd unless youve got a lot (of officers), Kresja said, adding that because the officers were greatly outnumbered, arresting one person in a crowd could lead to the crowd rioting or attacking the officers.
hmm, when officers or anyone is outnumbered you dispearse the situation using tactics that outweight the objective there for making sure nonone gets injured!! I think that is a phenominial idea.. who would of thought of that???? Much like getting attacked in the street by two idiots and u call thier bluff by upping the anty a bit to slow them down and redirect thier thought process from harming you...
marlon
Master Black Belt
i am not sure your assessment of the officer's statement is completely in line with mine. but then again i am here to learn.
be well and thanks for this thread
marlon
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For what it's worth, I have never objected to the fact you went armed, or that you defended yourself.
My single and only problem in the incident was that you chose to consume alcohol *While armed*. That is an inviolable no-no.
GBlues
Purple Belt
Alright here is the thing. It is black and white. Anytime a man outside of a sparring session or MA school something of that nature. Attacks you it is a life or death situation. There is only one reason for why someone would attack another person and that is to cause serious bodily injury or death. Period. You need to be able to stop them using any tools or methods at your disposal, because that man attacking you is going to do everything in his power, to stop you permanently. If you don't go into every encounter with that mentality, one day you won't come out. My $.02.
BrandonLucas
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Alrighty....I realize that this thread is old, but I'm throwing in my .02 worth because this pretty much goes against all that I believe about the MA's..
1) There was no reason at all for things to get out of hand like they did. If you are able to open your mouth to speak, then you have the ability to attempt to properly avoid a confrontation. Properly avoiding a confrontation does not consist of throwing out macho statements like "You don't want to try that with me," and "You don't know who you're messing with." It would consist of "Listen, I'm not here to fight," or "I don't want to fight, so we're leaving...have a good night."
This is failure number 1 on your part.
2) I applaud your girlfriend for yelling at you, even though she definitely should not have tried to jump in the middle of the confrontation. I hope she's still mad at you about it. Maybe you should have listed to what she was saying, and understood why she was yelling at you and not them.
This is failure number 2 on your part.
3) You were drunk. This explains why this even happened the way it did...and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being drunk with friends at a party or something. But if you don't know how to behave while intoxicated, then you should just stay home or don't drink, or both.
This is failure number 3 on your part.
4) You pulled a weapon after you already effectively, yet wrongly, dispatched the people you were in the confrontation with...and you did this while intoxicated. This is not considered equalizing the situation in the eyes of the law...this is considered excessive force in the eyes of the law. The "attackers" were already dealt with...and you demonstrated that you could take care of a 2 on 1 situation without a weapon, even while intoxicated. Bringing out the weapon wouldn't have served any purpose other than to needlessly hurt someone...but this, again, could have been avoided in the first place...see failure number 1.
This is failure number 4 on your part.
5) I've seen in some of your posts that you think that because you made it home alive that you succeeded somehow. Yeah. You did make it home alive. And you still would have been alive if you had corrected failure number 1...and your girlfriend wouldn't have been mad at you, and you wouldn't have had a ruined evening. This tells me that you have failed to learn anything from this situation. If you can't see that you should have tried to talk your way out of the situation effectively before using your physical training, then this negates any of the rank you could have earned, in my book.
This is failure number 5 on your part
6) This one is a biggy...so you're an instructor?? And a cop?? Wow. And this is how you behave off duty?? It's one thing to hang out with friends and have a few drinks, but to act the way you did is not excusible by any means. I don't care if you're off duty or if you're not in your instructor's uniform...you should conduct yourself with honor and integrity, and you failed big time at this. Think of it this way: would you expect to see the Pope pick a fight with someone just because he wasn't in the Vatican and he didn't have his robe on? I certainly hope you don't behave this way with your class or when you're patrolling the streets.
This is failure number 6 on your part.
7) You posted the whole experience for the world to see. I can appreciate your honesty. I really can. But seriously. All your post taught me is a newfound respect for my instructor and my parents for raising me the way they did.
This is failure number 7 on your part.
Seriously. Think about what you've done. Give it alot of thought. I hope you understand what you need to change about your outlook on the situation, and I hope you understand it before the situation comes up again and either you or someone else gets hurt.
Major disappointment.
1) There was no reason at all for things to get out of hand like they did. If you are able to open your mouth to speak, then you have the ability to attempt to properly avoid a confrontation. Properly avoiding a confrontation does not consist of throwing out macho statements like "You don't want to try that with me," and "You don't know who you're messing with." It would consist of "Listen, I'm not here to fight," or "I don't want to fight, so we're leaving...have a good night."
This is failure number 1 on your part.
2) I applaud your girlfriend for yelling at you, even though she definitely should not have tried to jump in the middle of the confrontation. I hope she's still mad at you about it. Maybe you should have listed to what she was saying, and understood why she was yelling at you and not them.
This is failure number 2 on your part.
3) You were drunk. This explains why this even happened the way it did...and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being drunk with friends at a party or something. But if you don't know how to behave while intoxicated, then you should just stay home or don't drink, or both.
This is failure number 3 on your part.
4) You pulled a weapon after you already effectively, yet wrongly, dispatched the people you were in the confrontation with...and you did this while intoxicated. This is not considered equalizing the situation in the eyes of the law...this is considered excessive force in the eyes of the law. The "attackers" were already dealt with...and you demonstrated that you could take care of a 2 on 1 situation without a weapon, even while intoxicated. Bringing out the weapon wouldn't have served any purpose other than to needlessly hurt someone...but this, again, could have been avoided in the first place...see failure number 1.
This is failure number 4 on your part.
5) I've seen in some of your posts that you think that because you made it home alive that you succeeded somehow. Yeah. You did make it home alive. And you still would have been alive if you had corrected failure number 1...and your girlfriend wouldn't have been mad at you, and you wouldn't have had a ruined evening. This tells me that you have failed to learn anything from this situation. If you can't see that you should have tried to talk your way out of the situation effectively before using your physical training, then this negates any of the rank you could have earned, in my book.
This is failure number 5 on your part
6) This one is a biggy...so you're an instructor?? And a cop?? Wow. And this is how you behave off duty?? It's one thing to hang out with friends and have a few drinks, but to act the way you did is not excusible by any means. I don't care if you're off duty or if you're not in your instructor's uniform...you should conduct yourself with honor and integrity, and you failed big time at this. Think of it this way: would you expect to see the Pope pick a fight with someone just because he wasn't in the Vatican and he didn't have his robe on? I certainly hope you don't behave this way with your class or when you're patrolling the streets.
This is failure number 6 on your part.
7) You posted the whole experience for the world to see. I can appreciate your honesty. I really can. But seriously. All your post taught me is a newfound respect for my instructor and my parents for raising me the way they did.
This is failure number 7 on your part.
Seriously. Think about what you've done. Give it alot of thought. I hope you understand what you need to change about your outlook on the situation, and I hope you understand it before the situation comes up again and either you or someone else gets hurt.
Major disappointment.
Actually, I have to stand in support of kailat. He gave warning. he tried to back the guys down. And even once the knife was deployed, he used his fist instead. Granted, that bit at the end I think you should have held the hugger back with a hand instead of a fist, but I think you did well. By your description, deploying the knife ended the fight. Show of force worked as a deterrent.
I'd talk to your girl though. My wife has come to the point to where she knows when a fight could break out, and makes sure she's out of the way in case something does break out.
I'd talk to your girl though. My wife has come to the point to where she knows when a fight could break out, and makes sure she's out of the way in case something does break out.
Deaf Smith
Master of Arts
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Oh yea Ken! To that I agree.
If asked to fight, I'd tell them they are an idiot and leave. Most of the time I do have a weapon, from Glock to Smith J. And that alone keeps me from getting into a fight.
When you knowingly bring a weapon to a fight, or start an argument knowing you have a weapon, that can very easly bring a storm of criminal charges if something goes down. Many a person has gone to jail cause the jury heard they and brought a weapon and agreed to fight.
No thank you guys. I'm not afraid to get hurt, or even die, but to spend time in jail cause I violated the 'three stupids', no. Just not worth it.
Deaf
But he didn't start the argument. He didn't agree to fight. He didn't bring a weapon to a fight. He brought a weapon to a BAR. The drunk part, well, there's a reason I only drink at my house with certain friends and family, but other than that he did what he should have done. I think a lot of posters are being unnecessarily harsh with the guy. He had two guys coming at him and a girlfriend to defend all while making sure he didn't get hurt himself. He tried to back the guys off. They were pursuing him. They kept coming after he used minimal force. He displayed a knife and it was an effective force deterrent. Frankly, he was in the right even keeping in mind that he's LEO and a martial arts instructor. He could have done a lot worse and showed restraint. I don't think he'd have lost a court case.
People got on him for being willing to use the knife. one thing I've always been trained on is, "Only pull a knife if you're willing to use it. Otherwise, it's a liability." I think his response was reasonable, and he should get credit for the restraint he showed.
People got on him for being willing to use the knife. one thing I've always been trained on is, "Only pull a knife if you're willing to use it. Otherwise, it's a liability." I think his response was reasonable, and he should get credit for the restraint he showed.
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BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
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- Dec 31, 2007
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- 902
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I give him credit for showing restraint. I aknowledge that he could have kept going, but rightly chose to stop.
Now, as far as being unnecessarily harsh...all the 2 guys did were the basic school yard bully taunting. That's all. Did they throw any strikes? No. Did they attempt to throw any strikes? No. One guy simply "got in his face"...while not wearing a shirt...and, according to him, the other guy was on his butt before he knew what hit him.
So, now, I ask, how is it that I'm being unnecessarily harsh in anything that I've said based on what the OP described? In fact, let's take it part by part, starting from where the action kicks in...
"Okay so, as we all walked back to our cars to part for the evening there was 2 guys who wanted to start talking crap to my group..."
They're talking crap at this point...
"They wanted to run off at the mouth.. start just throwing their hands up and saying crap that just really irritated me and done it QUICK!!!!!!! I don't know what got into me, but i just wasn't in the mood for either of thier mouth's.."
So now, they're still talking crap, but they've started "throwing their hands up". Oooh, scary...
"So this dumb fool wanted to strip his shirt off as he started walking towards me..I said " dude your crossing the line.. i wouldn't do it!"" I begged him to stop!!"
Now, I will say this...he did attempt to do the right thing here. The problem is, however, he attempted to do it in a confrontational tone. The words "I wouldn't do it" have an understood "or else" attached to them...and we all know that drunks cannot resist finding out what the "or else" is going to be. Of course, this probably would have come out better had the person saying it been sober...
"He continued and got right in my face at which time he ended up on his *** and I honestly don't know how it even happend...LOL.."
Ok, first off, I don't see how an "lol" can apply to this situation...anyway, up to this point, the other guy has done nothing, by the OP's admission, but "get right in his face". This does not warrant what comes next, which was knocking the guy "on his ***". If the OP were in a more sober state, there could have been any number of things that could have been said to diffuse the situation...but be that as it may, things escalated beyond backing down. I think the question that has to be asked is "Is danger imminent in this situation?" Truly, the only person that can answer that is the OP, since he was there...but by going from his own words, I just could not justify what happened....
"His buddy came up stripping his shirt off and "BAM" he was next to his buddy both picking themselves off the pavement. "
Now, here, I could understand stopping an oncoming attack...although, it wouldn't have gotten to that point had the initial attack been avoided. The whole reason his buddy is attacking is because the OP has just put is buddy "on his ***"...so his natural reaction is to jump in and help...wrongly...by going on the attack.
"My buddies, my girl and my brother all standing in all as I started tearing my costume off of me in seconds.."
So here, I'm confused...his buddies are there to watch him start tearing off his costume, but the OP thinks that this is a 2 on 1 situation...I don't see that. First, "buddies" is plural, meaning that there is more than 1 buddy with him and his girl, so now, in the OP's group, we have no less than 3 males and 1 female, while there are only 2 "attackers" This doesn't sound like imminent danger for the OP to me....
"having my tactical folder on me, my K-BAR TDI blade in my back, and a cane that was part of my costume which included a sword hidden inside the cane itself.. HMMM I was like look guys.. " you are both in the wrong.. leave it alone and go home"
Here, we see that the OP is considering the fact that he has weapons at his disposal if he needs to use them...and then, thankfully, he tells these guys to "leave it alone and go home". Still not the best choice of words, but it's much better than what has just occured.
"My girl started getting in my face and the other two guys.. Hmm imagine that.. a girl starting to get in between the ****!! I was pissed at this time..I think I was more so mad at her than the other two guys.. "
His girl shouldn't have been directly in the line of fire, this much we all agree on. But she had every right to be angry, at least.
"Both said it was on to me.. I said bring it.. and next thing I said was " u TWo need to recognize as i quickly clicked open my tac folding blade.. OOOPS!!! but at this time it was GAME ON!!"
So, the OP starts by saying, just before this, that they should just leave it alone and go home...but then comes back with "bring it"...yeah, that's trying to calm a situation. And then, the OP proceeds to pull a weapon...now, at this point, he has already put both of these guys on their collective asses...what is the weapon for?
"in my mind I was gonna cut both of them no matter what.."
Yep. That's what it was for. So the OP's pissed at this point, and is now going to "cut them both no matter what".
"the two outnumbered me, and in my eyes it was deadly force
issue.."
But we just figured out a few lines ago that he, in fact, was not outnumbered...
"When the blade came out the two quickly changed thier tunes and backed down.. "
At this point, I can see to guys backing down when a blade is pulled...they actually did the smart thing. If only that had been the intent on pulling the weapon...but I digress.
"i put the knife up and said " U need to recognize im not your punk *** white boy take your attitude down the street to someone you can punk out.. cause im not that guy"...."
Something I can give credit on here...he puts the knife up when the "attackers" back off. But then, he's gotta ruin it by spewing a macho, cheesy line.
"The one guy quickly came to me as he was sorry and tried to hug me.. As I was not feeling that cause ididn't know him.. He quickly caught a right hook to the jaw I did not trust him..Ipunched him straight in the face.. I told him " Im not your friend, your pal.. GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!Ithink he realized quickly I was not Messing w/ him anymore.. ""
I can understand not wanting the guy that just tried to attack you try to hug you...but does this really warrant a cheap shot? I mean, come on...the guy has already been put on his *** and then had a knife pulled on him...of course he's sorry he messed with him. The OP is now the "alpha male" in the situation. Good for him. Be wary of a cheap attack, but don't deliver one first...
"his buddy as comical as it was, went from bad *** to "big *****" real fast...."
Well, it was either become a big ***** or get his jaw rocked for no reason...I think he made the right choice here. And I don't find it comical.
"NOW I felt they started crap w/ me and my family and friends for NO reason.. I was not about to settle for thier half *** appologies.. they made me mad.."
So now, we're back to "family and friends"...multiple people in his party...where it was stated a few lines up that the 2 outnumbered him...anyway, he says he wasn't going to settle for their "half *** appologies." So now they're backing down from him, aknowledging that he won the fight, but that's not good enough? Geez.
"i was ready to kill both of them..."
And this, sir, is the key to it all. Sure, he showed restraint in not killing them. But we see where his intentions were. All these 2 guys did was talk a bunch of junk. They didn't try to kill him or his girl or his friends. They were just acting like drunk turds...which is exactly how the OP was acting...
So the question here, I guess, is this:
Is the OP any better than the 2 attackers??
Having read all through this I agree wholehearted with Brandon's summation.
Quote "And here's a good twist for u who thnk by me adding this was right or wrong! I'll say this:
I added this a because i was upset and wanted others to learn from others mistakes..and to realize a threat is around every corner so dont think for a second you can't be attacked for no reason.
B) I could of just been making this up for good conversation and to get a great thread going for sake of arguing w/ the martial talk group! ; )
C) who knows maybe I witnessed this from a distance and it happened to someone else and I just wanted to portray this happened to me and I wanted to post this to see how others reacted by putting a public servent and martial artist in that loop.. it wouldn't of made agood topic if it was just some average joe.. hell this happens every day in some neighborhoods and cities right?
D) who knows maybe it really happend!
there is no way to tell the truth as no one was there.. after all we are always told not to believe everything we read on the internet right???? Unquote Kailat
Whether or not things written on the internet are true or not, people on MT will take things written on here at face value and try to help, support or given advice in good faith. The suggestion by the OP that it could all be made up or just something he saw is a little disingenous and suggest he's playing games with us. Yes the internet 'is the internet' but MT is one of the best forums going for being polite, truthful and respectful. After so many people posting in good faith to make fun of them is disrepectful.
Quote "And here's a good twist for u who thnk by me adding this was right or wrong! I'll say this:
I added this a because i was upset and wanted others to learn from others mistakes..and to realize a threat is around every corner so dont think for a second you can't be attacked for no reason.
B) I could of just been making this up for good conversation and to get a great thread going for sake of arguing w/ the martial talk group! ; )
C) who knows maybe I witnessed this from a distance and it happened to someone else and I just wanted to portray this happened to me and I wanted to post this to see how others reacted by putting a public servent and martial artist in that loop.. it wouldn't of made agood topic if it was just some average joe.. hell this happens every day in some neighborhoods and cities right?
D) who knows maybe it really happend!
there is no way to tell the truth as no one was there.. after all we are always told not to believe everything we read on the internet right???? Unquote Kailat
Whether or not things written on the internet are true or not, people on MT will take things written on here at face value and try to help, support or given advice in good faith. The suggestion by the OP that it could all be made up or just something he saw is a little disingenous and suggest he's playing games with us. Yes the internet 'is the internet' but MT is one of the best forums going for being polite, truthful and respectful. After so many people posting in good faith to make fun of them is disrepectful.
