Domestic violence what would you do?

Master Dan

Master Black Belt
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
35
Location
NW Alaska
I went to take my daughter 6 to her adult baby sitter day care who has cared for her since she was 6 months old. A russian women wonderful person who has cared for many of the children in our community on a 24/7 as needed basis. Since my daughters mother was killed last November this women is one of two very important females in her life so she has meaning in our lives. Second two of her oldest children have been my students for some time and now adults and both in college. S I get to the door she shows me bruizes all over her arms obvious finger grabs and tells me her husband is beating her. Then gets out her digital camera and shows me pictures of her legs badly beaten and says he keeps weopons in his room and beats her.

He recently bought the largest resturaunt in town and told her to shut up and not tell anyone because it would be bad for business. He is 61 and having his way with the young help and has told her shut up or I throw you in the street. I explained to her that first I helped him make the half million he has to put down on the restruant he hid from his last wife he divorced and that she could get half of everything and have him removed from the house with a restraining order. She could only think of loosing her home and day care income. He makes her pay all the household bills like a live in slave and being Russian she thinks she has no rights and is supporting her two children through college.

I first called the womens shelter and asked a councelor to call her. I filed a complaint with police department but they did nothing and I contacted officals at state level which came back to the troopers and the post seargent a freind came to me upset they were getting on his case about it. He said the guy is guilty as sin but no body will do anything if she will not file charges. He said the police chief didn't even know about the repport I filed? I talked with the alcohol board and they said they could refuse him a liqour license if he was charge but not on just a report?

What happend to police showing up seeing obvious signs of physical abuse and arresting the SOB!!!!!!!! this is so wrong on so may levels she gets state and federal funds as a daycare and they are not willing to do ****!!

Now I would have let this slide up until she shows my child her bruises and say Unlce B is beating me. My child has been through enough she will never got there or talk to her or him again. Last week someone told me he was in to child pornography? I would throw a beaten on this guy his mother would not recognize him but I have my own child and life to think about.

I don't have much sympathy for these type of women anymore because thier possesions, money and other things mean more to them than stepping up and doing the right thing but still want empathy from everyone. Law enforcement had good physical evidence but refused to even look? I emailed her two children and told them but no response. All I can do is never take my child there again have nothing to do with eather of them and never spend one dime in his restruant. I will have nothing to do with her or her children until she steps up and files charges.

He may be a scum bag for doing 20 something girls in his office at 61 and married but keeping a human slave at home and torturing them is a real low. I know in time given his ego he will trip and fall but still he shoud be in jail and the community should not be bringing thier children there. I have two option left file a claim with Children services and possibly FBI for violation of her civil rights but how far do you go for someone who does not want help?
 

Jenna

Senior Master
MT Mentor
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,470
Reaction score
713
Location
Cluj
For what it is worth, I think you have tried to do what you think is best for this lady by seeking help on her behalf. What to do now is difficult if this lady (as many many others) feels unable to speak out against an abusive partner. The interplay between abuser and abused can be very complex and difficult to untangle especially for those of us that are not qualified. I can only say, it is a testament to your humanity and empathy and how you see your duty as any citizen that you have tried your best to do what is right by this lady. There are never quick or easy fixes to these things and so I want to say please do not exact what you might see as fitful retribution on this man for any number of reasons, none of which will have a good outcome for you yourself.
 

Cyriacus

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
3,827
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
Im going to start out slightly Off Topic, just to prevent any hasty ideas.

Firstly, SHE Would Need To Do This.
And if SHE doesnt want Help, then do NOTHING.
Its best that way.
And hey, she may be a Sadomasochist (Just an Option - Some People would be Embarrassed to Admit it. Again: JUST an Option. I may be wrong)

Secondly: Law Wise;
VIDEO Evidence of the Wounds > Audio Recording of the Bashings if Possible > Pictures of Old Injuries > File Assault Charges > File Domestic Abuse Charges > File Battery Charges > Hire A Good Lawyer.

Thats the only way ive ever seen it work.

YOUR Job, is to be a Character Witness to her Honestly, as well as as many People as you can get to Join in on that.
And to Support her through it.

Just be bloody careful.
Because if theres a screwup, regardless of who Pressed Charges or Compained and who didnt, he WILL take it out on Her.

Otherwise;
Get her out of Town; Change her Name; Start Fresh.

Let me say again though; If She doesnt want to do anything, thats Her decision to make.
There are too many Variables.
Dont take Action on other peoples behalf.

Restraining Orders and whatnot will only piss him off.
So if she thinks you need to take Action before this gets any Worse, do it Right.
Any Mistake could End Poorly.



Now, I know that isnt the Main Topic. Im mainly saying why its best to not do anything drastic. Because doing drastic things carry alot of variables.

That aside, hes a Degenerate.
If you want a Slave, go to a BDSM Club (Im only half joking. If people are going to be perverted in some way, they may as well do it Legally, for everyones sake).

And they keep Records. So there would be no chance of a Legal Cluster****.

--Ill stop editing my phrasing every 2 seconds now, to anyone who read this the first time i hit the post button :D
--Ok, now ill stop. :)
--Bah. Closing the Tab. Too much Editing. Ill just assume im conveying the right message.

 
Last edited:

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,785
Reaction score
1,442
Location
In Pain
As a stranger in a strange land she is not on the same level as her native sisters.
I don't mean that the laws don't apply to her, but there are many legal hoops attached to come to this country, and the ever looming threat of having to go back. And while much has changed in Russia over the last 2 decades, being poor there still sucks.
There is no telling what he told her, aside from making her pay the expenses while playing hide the sausage at the restaurant.

She probably sees the looming cost and herself under a bridge with her 2 kids. However silly it seems to us, it's real to her.
Once the legal fog lifts, I am sure she changes her mind. But the prospect of becoming a middle aged bag lady is really not very appealing.


However, there is a real danger for her once she makes up her mind to leave.
 

Earl Weiss

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
3,291
Reaction score
666
While well intentioned, I think your efforts are going in the wrong direction.


>>
I first called the womens shelter and asked a councelor to call her. I filed a complaint with police department but they did nothing and I contacted officals at state level which came back to the troopers and the post seargent a freind came to me upset they were getting on his case about it. He said the guy is guilty as sin but no body will do anything if she will not file charges. He said the police chief didn't even know about the repport I filed? I talked with the alcohol board and they said they could refuse him a liqour license if he was charge but not on just a report? <<

This was a good move.

>>What happend to police showing up seeing obvious signs of physical abuse and arresting the SOB!!!!!!!! this is so wrong on so may levels she gets state and federal funds as a daycare and they are not willing to do ****!!<<<

Because without firsthand witness testimony it's just hearsay and there is no probable cause. Just because you believe what she said does not make it true pictures notwithstanding, and such second hand info opens them up false arrest charges.

>>>Now I would have let this slide up until she shows my child her bruises and say Unlce B is beating me. My child has been through enough she will never got there or talk to her or him again.<<<

It was improper for her to tell any child about this or show them photos.

>>Last week someone told me he was in to child pornography? I would throw a beaten on this guy his mother would not recognize him but I have my own child and life to think about. <<

Again, second hand info. Perhaps the cops can set up a sting?


>>I have two option left file a claim with Children services and possibly FBI for violation of her civil rights but how far do you go for someone who does not want help?
<<<

Suffice it to say your legal theory for this type of report is off base.
 

WC_lun

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Messages
2,760
Reaction score
82
Location
Kansas City MO
In the end she has to find the courage to report the abuse and leave. Nothing else will end it. While it is certainly admirable to feel compassion for her, it is her decision to live in such a relationship. At a certain point your efforts will do nothing but draw you into a very sticky web of acusations.
 

ATC

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
2,664
Reaction score
70
Location
San Jose
Not sure whatto do about the woman, but when it comes to my kids they would be out of there.The man as you alleged is into child porn and the woman is looking forvalidation by showing your kids her marks and telling them that Uncle whoeverdid it. Not a good place for young kids to be with either person. Both are notgood for the kids to be around. Both have mental issues that should not havekids exposed to.

All I can say for sure is get the kids out of there. I know I would. Her issuesare her issues and you can do what you want for her, but in the end she will needto do something about it. There is a reason that the police don't like domesticdisputes. They are very touchy. One minute you are helping protect someone thenthe next minute that same someone is turning on you and now you got two peopleattacking you. Not a good situation at all. GET THE KIDS OUT OF THERE!!!

 

d1jinx

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
17
Location
all-ova
I don't have much sympathy for these type of women anymore because thier possesions, money and other things mean more to them than stepping up and doing the right thing but still want empathy from everyone. Law enforcement had good physical evidence but refused to even look? I emailed her two children and told them but no response. All I can do is never take my child there again have nothing to do with eather of them and never spend one dime in his restruant. I will have nothing to do with her or her children until she steps up and files charges.

A little easy for you to say,

1: you are not a women,
2: You are not in her situation.

It's so easy to condemn one whos situations seems so Black and white on the Outside. But you are not the 1 on the inside actually experiencing it or having the mental struggle and low self esteem and being afraid.

Rather than writing off an abused woman as a greedy whiner, try supporting and encouraging them to understand that they are not alone and would be better off without the abuser.

If it was as easy as you say, then we wouldnt have domestic violence, because everyone would leave as soon as it happens. So i guess all the women are greedy whiner who value possession... what if they OWN NOTHING???????

oh, and foriegners (non-americans) usually deal differently with life-situations, because after all, we americans are spoiled and think we are owed everything including a good life.
 

oftheherd1

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
4,685
Reaction score
817
Domestic situations are difficult at any time. You have accepted her story. You have told her options. You have even taken some action in her favor. Most importantly, you have gotten your child out of her house. No matter who has what kind of blame in that household, your child should not be exposed to it, nor potentially exposed to it.

I can't tell you why, but a lot of women in domestic abouse situations are reluctant to take any action. It seems they have mixed emotions about their situation. They may fear the abuse they suffer, but they often fear even more being on their own. Sometimes they seem to feel their abuser really loves them, but just "loses control" sometimes, and is always sorry afterward, so it is OK then. They may accept part or all the blame as their fault. As mentioned above, if any outsider intervenes, especially in a way that may appear to threaten the abuser, a woman may suddenly turn on the person intervening. That is why cops hate/fear domestic abuse calls. The woman may turn on them, or refuse to press charges once the beating has stopped.

For the man, he needs to feel dominance. He also fears exposure and/or incarceration. Just as well, he fears his loss of control if he cannot continue to abuse. He will be very apologetic and sorrowful, often blaming the woman, but sorrowful. I don't think they actually feel any of that, but it gives them freedom to do it again. The

If any of the above seems illogical and difficult for you to understand, you are part of a large club. Personally, I don't lack sympathy for these women. However, I personally tend to only give advice and let them decide. I point out that police can be called, or the State/County may provide counselling or shelter. I may point out that only they can effectively begin action to extricate themselves from the situation (you have learned that as well). I may point out that they may lose friends/acquaintances/family, who may not believe them, or may simply wish to distance themselves to avoid being involved. Again, it appears her children may not want to be involved. They may find it difficult to believe it the husband was careful not to do anything in front of them. Or they may just be so relieved to be away from home they can't convince themselves to get involved. Many emotions motivate people into actions, positive or negative.

You also, as some have pointed out above, must take into consideration the culture she was raised in, as well as any sub-cultures that might influence her. I can't give you a clue, but I suspect abuse isn't unheard of in her native country.

I don't know what is your best course of action now. It might be just to keep away from them both. You have done a lot already. If she refuses to contact the police, or leave, there really isn't much you can do more for her, other than lend a sympathetic ear, if you choose to do so. You have done what you need to do to protect your child. To me, that is the only unanswered question. Have the police considered, or are they aware, that she runs a day care, including 24 hour? Once you are certain they know that (and consider what you might want to do to document what you have done), you may be best off to sever all connections. But maybe not. Only you can answer that, but remember you aren't answering only for yourself, but your child as well. Good luck.
 
OP
Master Dan

Master Dan

Master Black Belt
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
35
Location
NW Alaska
First this is a day care that recieves state and federal support and watches many children way past legal limits as many as 11 children some 6 month old toddlers and such with only one person watching at times. Second the community at large does not have a clue what is going on in that how. Of course my kid is out and will never return but what about my friends parents of my students who continue to go there. He is unstable whos to say some day he comes home and kills her and every body before he goes. She has the options to keep her home and possesions and finances by doing the right thing and report. I understand compeletely the role of fear and domination of the women in theses cases she has to make her own decision for her self but other peoples children are at risk police and state police are doing nothing. I think my next move is file with Child services on behalf of my own child and document that. Now I could go public letter in the paper but what a **** sandwhich I may eat for that but when it comes to protecting those who cannot defend themselves Ive done it before and usually come out ahead but gut says leave it alone they always kill the messenger?
 

Cyriacus

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
3,827
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
First this is a day care that recieves state and federal support and watches many children way past legal limits as many as 11 children some 6 month old toddlers and such with only one person watching at times. Second the community at large does not have a clue what is going on in that how. Of course my kid is out and will never return but what about my friends parents of my students who continue to go there. He is unstable whos to say some day he comes home and kills her and every body before he goes. She has the options to keep her home and possesions and finances by doing the right thing and report. I understand compeletely the role of fear and domination of the women in theses cases she has to make her own decision for her self but other peoples children are at risk police and state police are doing nothing. I think my next move is file with Child services on behalf of my own child and document that. Now I could go public letter in the paper but what a **** sandwhich I may eat for that but when it comes to protecting those who cannot defend themselves Ive done it before and usually come out ahead but gut says leave it alone they always kill the messenger?

If you know any of the others, Warn their Parents.

Just know that if you make it a Legal Issue, you will be the one who has to Prove it beyond any doubt whatsoever, and you and your Family could easily be Victimized as a biproduct, especially if it doesnt end in your favor.

This aint a perfect world full of perfect people.
Just because it seems Righteous doesnt mean itll end well.
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
541
Location
NH
Dan, please be careful. Restaurants mean alcohol, and your days up north are getting shorter as we get closer to winter. The two together can mean trouble, even for decent people.

Take care of yourself and your kids first. As for your friend the sitter, I think the best thing you can do for her is to give her a regional number for the Alaskan Women's Network or a similar professional resource. You can't make her call, but you can at least make sure she knows how to get help. The professionals help people for a living, it may even be that there is someone on the end of the phone that is astute to the cultural challenges she faces being from Russia.

http://www.alaskawomensnetwork.org/domestic_violence.html

Wish you, your family and your friend all the best.
 

Cyriacus

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
3,827
Reaction score
47
Location
Australia
Dan, please be careful. Restaurants mean alcohol, and your days up north are getting shorter as we get closer to winter. The two together can mean trouble, even for decent people.

Take care of yourself and your kids first. As for your friend the sitter, I think the best thing you can do for her is to give her a regional number for the Alaskan Women's Network or a similar professional resource. You can't make her call, but you can at least make sure she knows how to get help. The professionals help people for a living, it may even be that there is someone on the end of the phone that is astute to the cultural challenges she faces being from Russia.

http://www.alaskawomensnetwork.org/domestic_violence.html

Wish you, your family and your friend all the best.

Good Recommendation.
 
OP
Master Dan

Master Dan

Master Black Belt
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
35
Location
NW Alaska
Actually I have done all that the first call I made was to the womens shelter to have them call and help her but her pattern is to reach out to friends even other Russian women here but when approached by anyone of authority she will denie or do nothing. It is her choice of course but is an unhealthy environment for a day care in the home. There have been past issues with children and inapropriate sexual language and touching 4-5 years ago it was assumed it came from thier own home enviroment but now it makes one wonder. I have a very good understanding of all the cultural issues here and have worked for over 25 years specifically with abused women and children. The issue or choice for me now is one of responsibility to do something and I think I have clear legal right to file a formal complaint and call for investigation through childrens services. It would at least serve to put the abuser on notice that he is being watched and will have to modify his behavior or do I just forget about it?
 

sopraisso

Blue Belt
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
222
Reaction score
15
Location
Brazil
Most have already said what I think. Cyriacus could synthesize it shortly:
Because doing drastic things carry alot of variables.
Drastic actions usually lead to drastic consequences, frequently unexpected and uncontrolled. I think you've already done what you should as a good citizen, but more than that can get you in trouble.
Anyway, I hope you and your family are protected from that problem, and as well I hope your heart feels pacified about that domestic violence problem -- hopefully with a good solution for the mentioned lady, who is, first of all, a victim.
 

Jenna

Senior Master
MT Mentor
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,470
Reaction score
713
Location
Cluj
Actually I have done all that the first call I made was to the womens shelter to have them call and help her but her pattern is to reach out to friends even other Russian women here but when approached by anyone of authority she will denie or do nothing. It is her choice of course but is an unhealthy environment for a day care in the home. There have been past issues with children and inapropriate sexual language and touching 4-5 years ago it was assumed it came from thier own home enviroment but now it makes one wonder. I have a very good understanding of all the cultural issues here and have worked for over 25 years specifically with abused women and children. The issue or choice for me now is one of responsibility to do something and I think I have clear legal right to file a formal complaint and call for investigation through childrens services. It would at least serve to put the abuser on notice that he is being watched and will have to modify his behavior or do I just forget about it?
Eeek! That sounds like a whole other messy situation with lots of other nasty factors involved too. Goodness, I would not wish to take a decision on your behalf. Yes, you are correct in that there is a reasonable cause to file against this person. And but PLEASE! understand that if the lady in question has decided to stay where she is, then having her male partner faced with a legal threat may well put her in more jeopardy than it appears she is already in. Particularly if she is unwilling to assist with any potential prosecution, you are putting yourself out on a limb (albeit for what you believe is good and just) and but you may not have the essential corroborating evidence needed from her to ensure justice is properly brought to him.

It is your decision ultimately. Again, I laud you for your desire to do the right thing as you see it.
 
OP
Master Dan

Master Dan

Master Black Belt
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
35
Location
NW Alaska
Eeek! That sounds like a whole other messy situation with lots of other nasty factors involved too. Goodness, I would not wish to take a decision on your behalf. Yes, you are correct in that there is a reasonable cause to file against this person. And but PLEASE! understand that if the lady in question has decided to stay where she is, then having her male partner faced with a legal threat may well put her in more jeopardy than it appears she is already in. Particularly if she is unwilling to assist with any potential prosecution, you are putting yourself out on a limb (albeit for what you believe is good and just) and but you may not have the essential corroborating evidence needed from her to ensure justice is properly brought to him.

It is your decision ultimately. Again, I laud you for your desire to do the right thing as you see it.

Well the real time to take further aciton was with in 48 hours of her having real damage to her arms and legs child services would still do investigation but I fear like you said it will only cause her strife. I do think I may still talk with some parents those of my students that still drop off children ranging from 1 yr old to 10 years old.

I am not unsympathetic for those being abused especially children but the older ones say 19 and older have made the decision to stay a victim and all people no matter what has been done to them must at some point make the decision to survive and have some quality of life doing the best they can for themselves and then asking for help. The ones that don't and continually slef medicate self abuse and continually use past abuse as an exucse to be hopless and have not self responsibility don't make it they die. Here they die one after another from time after time young and old. My ex wife just two weeks after she died drowning falling through the ice going to bingo on a snow machine leaving my daughter 6 and her son 2 , her cousin finally had enough from her abusing husband and took a knife and cut him ear to ear. People at the hospital almost cheered said about time he had it comming, Her other cousin lost is 12 year old son shot to death in the next room while the parents were drunk, first suicide, then russian ruoulet, then acident who knows but they had been drunk for a week and 3 boys in the next room with guns. Thats why I teach here these kids need a decent chance to live. In 16 years 3,000 students most have done well some in movies, performed for the Smithonian, set world records in Eskimo Olympic, become good coaches, teachers, good parents but still. Still so many falling through the cracks with only jail or an early death in thier future.
 

oftheherd1

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
4,685
Reaction score
817
Well sir, I don't envy you the decisions you are grappling with. One certainly hopes people will jump up and do the right thing. But in situations like what you have described, and considering what a litigation-crazy society we have become, there are many considerations. I don't know how much you can blame the victims. Oh, I understand peoples frustration with victims that seem to want the abuse since they will do nothing to stop it. But there is a long path to their condition. And I think psychological counselling is necessary so they can learn to come to grips with the idea there are better ways of living. Otherwise, even if they get out of one abusive relationship, they will not learn to cope with "normal" people, and will not accept what a normal relationship is. They will then simply enter another abusive relationship since that is the only type of relationship they know how to deal with.

They seem to have come to accept that no matter how much they don't like the abuse, they just don't have any skills to cope with any other lifestyle. Worse, they seem to accept abusive life styles as normal and proper. So even when they complain over actions of the moment, in the long run, they will do what it takes to stay in their relationship, or getting out of one, enter another; not knowing any "normal" way to survive.

There is a concern beyond the lady herself, since she has agreed to care for other's children. That adds complications. I can't tell you what to do, other than to keep yourself protected at all times. Before you do anything else, you might want to consult with a lawyer. You need to be sure you, and therefore your own children, are not put at unnecessary risk.
 
OP
Master Dan

Master Dan

Master Black Belt
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
35
Location
NW Alaska
Well sir, I don't envy you the decisions you are grappling with. One certainly hopes people will jump up and do the right thing. But in situations like what you have described, and considering what a litigation-crazy society we have become, there are many considerations. I don't know how much you can blame the victims. Oh, I understand peoples frustration with victims that seem to want the abuse since they will do nothing to stop it. But there is a long path to their condition. And I think psychological counselling is necessary so they can learn to come to grips with the idea there are better ways of living. Otherwise, even if they get out of one abusive relationship, they will not learn to cope with "normal" people, and will not accept what a normal relationship is. They will then simply enter another abusive relationship since that is the only type of relationship they know how to deal with.

They seem to have come to accept that no matter how much they don't like the abuse, they just don't have any skills to cope with any other lifestyle. Worse, they seem to accept abusive life styles as normal and proper. So even when they complain over actions of the moment, in the long run, they will do what it takes to stay in their relationship, or getting out of one, enter another; not knowing any "normal" way to survive.

There is a concern beyond the lady herself, since she has agreed to care for other's children. That adds complications. I can't tell you what to do, other than to keep yourself protected at all times. Before you do anything else, you might want to consult with a lawyer. You need to be sure you, and therefore your own children, are not put at unnecessary risk.

At this point beyond telling other parents who I am close with that are still taking thier kids there nothing. getting back to patterns of peoplethat lack the skills to cope with any other life style especially in any form of self dicipline or structure I find they have become like the habitual fellon who in fact is institutionalized and can only last so long with out returning to where they are truly comfortable. We have a 21 year old girl at 18 she was doing good in training and we were helping her alot but she just could not resist temptations of attention and drugs and alcohol she finally wound up shipped out for treatment which is a waste of time a revolving door for such as these because they truly do not want to recover just heal up enough to do it again. Her case is sad like so may other here raped and used by everyone including her father but she works that for sympathy to get what ever she can with out working for anything. She came back to town even worse hooked on heroin thinking everyone would just give her anything we helped her get housing jobs and the oportunity to train but she decide to trade sex for an old man to take care of her and she screwed that up to and now got arrested for breaking and entering and the court has given her the choice of leave town or go to jail. they do that here its called a blue ticket send the problem to another town. She has all the potential in the world but will not unless she is locked up long enough to gain coping skills which I doubt. Bottom line those who survive at some point make the decision that no matter how bad the past was they are going to fight to get better and those who don't live a horrible existance and die.
 
Top