I do and I teach children. I wouldn't dream of telling anyone that Tyson is a role model to look up to.
Dojo Photo's/role models
- Thread starter Paul_D
- Start date
I do and I teach children. I wouldn't dream of telling anyone that Tyson is a role model to look up to.
Kickboxer101
Master Black Belt
Alis more famous because of him choosing not to fight in the war that shouldn't be a negative thing on him. He made the choice to not do something he felt strongly against doing I think that's a good thing for kids to learn that they shouldn't be forced to do something that goes against what they believe in.
so his boxing skills didn't have much to do with his fame then?
Kickboxer101
Master Black Belt
Oh for god sake do you have to try and argue with every post I make....yes his boxing made him famous but that made him famous with non boxing fans and the Muslim community by standing by his beliefs
Juany118
Senior Master
In a particular Muslim Community. I am only saying this because have friends that are actually what Ali joined later, Sufi Islam. A Sunni, Shi'ite, Sufi etc don't consider the Nation of Islam to be a Muslim faith. Of all the differences the biggest are that NOI sees the founder as the Messiah (idolatry in Traditional Islam) and Elijah Mohammed as a Prophet of God (Traditional Islam sees Mohammed as the last of God's prophets and that he provided the perfect vision of God's will).
Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to point out becoming popular in the greater Muslim community wasn't really a factor as they don't consider the NOI to be of Islam, regardless of the name.
Well, yes when you post nonsense I feel bound to point out that you are wrong. I mean I could agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
Ironbear24
Senior Master
But will there ever come a point where we as people can forgive these atheletes for their shortcomings? I mean damn we are all people and none of us are perfect. I am sure we all have something we aren't proud of.
I can't forgive because they have done nothing to me, only people they've harmed can forgive them, what they get from me is my indifference.
Ironbear24
Senior Master
He served his time. What more can he do?
No, really I can't not won't forgive him because it's not my place to. As for anything else, he really doesn't interest me, he's written a book where he said he was high on coke etc when he fought and has a false penis filled with 'clean' urine he'd use for dope tests. If he's a change person I've seen nothing to convince me just words. so all he gets is indifference.
Well, draft dodging and cross dressing don’t really have victims as such. Rape on the other hand……
Draft dodging would not stop me hanging up a picture of Ali, in fact I think that’s a good thing that he was willing to stand up for his beliefs. Of course I would not put his picture up on the basis that he advocated the killing of black men and women who dated whites.
Ironbear24
Senior Master
So what would you hang up in your dojo?
I would personally go for quotes rather than pictures of individuals.
Ironbear24
Senior Master
Practice, patience, perseverance. That's one I hear often and I agree with it.
I have mixed feeling about this. Draft Evasion was illegal. He broke the law.
A lot of kids were killed in Viet Nam that couldn't get out of it because of their beliefs. Religeous beliefs shouldn't be a ticket out of jail. Where is the line drawn? What If your religion believes murder and rape are acceptable?
Kickboxer101
Master Black Belt
I don't care about his religion choices I just like the fact he chose to say no to something no one should ever be forced to do. I have all the respect in the world for the military they're very brave people who do great work and I'd never do it but no one should ever be forced to join. To me that's wrong, if you believe in fighting for your country and you believe that's what you have to do then great but if not then you shouldn't be forced to simply because if you're forced to you're not into it properly you won't be in the right head space because it's not something you want to do. Any war is a very stressful dangerous place and even people who want to do it will probably be terrified let alone someone who has no interest in being there. Me personally I'd rather do a few years in prison go to a war zone where I know I would never be in the right headspace to do that job
I was referring more to his stand on the grounds that he didn't want to be used as a tool to murder people who were fighting for their freedom, rather than his religious objections to war.
The U.S. Supreme Court disagrees with you. They might possibly be a little more knowledgeable on the subject than you are.
Juany118
Senior Master
The thing is this. When you place a picture in a prominent position in a school, dojo, whatever, you are placing something to either be a matter of discussion or something to be aspirational. Dojos, in my experience, aren't places where you are going to discuss heady topics such as rehabilitation or redemption, so the pictures are aspirational.
In my book he did break the law. That's why he was arrested, found guilty by a jury trial and sentenced by a judge. SCOTUS can and will do what they want. And did exactly that, in this case.
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