Dojo Photo's/role models

[Paul_D]

Recently I came across a photo from a dojo of a childrens grading. On the wall behind the children was a photograph on the dojo wall of Mike Tyson. This stood out as whilst I would expect to see this in a boxing gym, it is not something I would expect to see in a dojo.

Once I thought about this though, what struck me was is it inappropriate to have a photo of a convicted rapist on the wall of a dojo where children are training, and what sort of message does this send to the children, particularly the boys. The insinuation being that your crimes don’t matter if you’re good at sports.

So I just through I would use the opportunity to garner other people’s opinion?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I would never want a picture of Tyson up in my school for the very reasons you cite.

On the other hand, it seems Mike Tyson still has a lot of fans out there who don't seem to be concerned that he is a rapist.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Fact is tyson is a awful person but was a great boxer and obviously you can't use him as a role model personality wise I think he can be a role model in the way of showing how much you can achieve if you work hard despite your upbringing and any personal problems. Tyson was born into an awful family and was In jail plenty of times before he was 13 but then dedicated himself to boxing and became the youngest heavyweight champion. I mean most kids who see a picture of tyson won't know he's a convicted rapist or know anything about that they'll just think of him as an amazing boxer (or the guy who fought ip man in his last movie)

So yeah to me the guys scum read his book and anyone will agree but despite that he was a great fighter and showed what dedication can do...before he pissed it all away but that also shows how you should never get complacent so yeah I think tyson is someone to use to learn how to do some things and how not to do other things

 

[Tez3]

No, a bad role model all round. Not even the best boxer just a bruiser.

 

[Kickboxer101]

No, a bad role model all round. Not even the best boxer just a bruiser.

Still got the title but the time he was 20 and won his first 18 fights by knockout and defended his title 9 times so I'd say he was pretty good and achieved more than the people in that class so yeah as a boxer he should be a role model for them

 

[Tez3]

Still got the title but the time he was 20 and won his first 18 fights by knockout and defended his title 9 times so I'd say he was pretty good and achieved more than the people in that class so yeah as a boxer he should be a role model for them

No, he was a bruiser at a time when there weren't the great boxers around. A boxer/fighter is only as good as his opponents. If he fights journeymen then that doesn't make him a great boxer just a competent one. Half the trick to become a champion is fighting the right opponents.

 

[Kickboxer101]

No, he was a bruiser at a time when there weren't the great boxers around. A boxer/fighter is only as good as his opponents. If he fights journeymen then that doesn't make him a great boxer just a competent one. Half the trick to become a champion is fighting the right opponents.

And all the fights he won after he won the title guess they were all rubbish to right

 

[Tez3]

And all the fights he won after he won the title guess they were all rubbish to right

Sigh, you don't get that pro boxing is a game do you? Stop looking at it through rose coloured glasses and see it for what it is. Tyson was a competent bruiser who fought the right opponents, that's how it works.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Sigh, you don't get that pro boxing is a game do you? Stop looking at it through rose coloured glasses and see it for what it is. Tyson was a competent bruiser who fought the right opponents, that's how it works.

And is one of the most famous names In boxing and made the most money out of boxing, the youngest heavyweight champion and is still hugely famous today. Those are facts simple as that. I also find it quite funny if I say one little thing against an mma fighter you get all upset and defensive over it but it's okay for you to criticise a boxer on his style and his opponents. Double standards much?

 

[Kickboxer101]

Fact is plenty there are plenty of athletes who aren't good people but are still great at their sport so deserve respect for that. Even Bruce lee, he was a very arrogant person who had to leave Hong Kong because he was constantly street fighting, was in gangs and got into gang warfare, got In trouble with the police and had issues with the triads and got into street fights in America and broke one of his friends jaw becayse he landed a punch on him In sparring also played pranks that nearly drowned his sister and bullied other people and was constantly dismissive and arrogant to other people and their methods. Also he was a drugs user (there was cannabis found in his body on his autopsy and bob wall said he used canabis to relax)

So Bruce lee wasnt exactly an amazing person. Okay he wasn't on tysons level of how much a scum bag he was but he as a person still wasnt a lovely person who you'd want your kid to be like but he's still a big hero and kids love and respect him.

 

[JR 137]

IMO Mike Tyson was easily one of the best I've seen (I don't rate people before my time, such as Ali). IN HIS PRIME, his footwork, movement, timing, and hand speed were impeccable. His defense was his offense and vice versa; he was a very hard target to hit, and created openings like no one else I've seen. He had a fatal flaw - he forgot he had to train, and forgot he had to move. He got it in his head that he could KO anyone with one punch, and eventually stood up straight and became a punching bag. He forgot what he learned early in his career. All IMO.

I think he's a great example FOR ADULTS. He had all the raw talent in the world. He worked his tail off and did exactly as he was told, and it paid off. Then, he ignored what made him successful, and it all epically came crashing down. His work ethic and talent was what made him the fighter he was. His lack of work ethic and thinking he was above the rules were what brought about his demise.

If I were a pro fighter, his picture would be up in my training hall as a daily reminder to me. He's the perfect example of why to work hard, don't surround yourself with "yes men," and keep your head on straight. I genuinely can't think of a better example. But it takes an adult to see all of that; he's not someone you want kids looking up to.

Edit: I'd use italics instead of CAPS, but my iPhone doesn't make that an easy thing to do.

 

[drop bear]

So does mike Tyson ever achieve redemption?

 

[JR 137]

So does mike Tyson ever achieve redemption?

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Tez3]

(I don't rate people before my time, such as Ali)

ah but you see Ali was my time so Tyson doesn't rate nearly as high.

I also find it quite funny if I say one little thing against an mma fighter you get all upset and defensive over it but it's okay for you to criticise a boxer on his style and his opponents.

Oh dear, you've got that backwards haven't you! You have praised MMA fighters and I have told you they aren't as good as you think but you insist you know best, you've never criticised one and I've got upset, not that I do get upset at what you write, why would I lol?

 

[oftheherd1]

No, a bad role model all round. Not even the best boxer just a bruiser.

I am not a boxer so I would find it hard to talk about his boxing skills, or the lack thereof. His personality has been reported on in the media.

But the OP mentioned this as something he saw in a dojo while testing was going on for kids. I don't agree with that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Recently I came across a photo from a dojo of a childrens grading. On the wall behind the children was a photograph on the dojo wall of Mike Tyson. This stood out as whilst I would expect to see this in a boxing gym, it is not something I would expect to see in a dojo.

Once I thought about this though, what struck me was is it inappropriate to have a photo of a convicted rapist on the wall of a dojo where children are training, and what sort of message does this send to the children, particularly the boys. The insinuation being that your crimes don’t matter if you’re good at sports.

So I just through I would use the opportunity to garner other people’s opinion?

I agree, entirely. I wouldn't want it in any dojo, gym, or other "role model-y" place, for that very reason. Except for possibly some motivational posters or something, I think the only pictures on the walls should be somehow pertinent to the school: pictures of students and instructors, pictures of students and instructors with notable figures from the martial arts or elswhere, founders and other antecedents, or important role models from the art or similar arts.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So does mike Tyson ever achieve redemption?

It is possible. I've heard stories of folks who committed serious (and even violent) crimes who redeemed themselves. I admittedly don't know much of what Tyson is up to these days, but I've not heard of him starting a program with a lot of positive impact to off-set the negative impact he had in the past. That's what buys redemption in my mind.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

IMO Mike Tyson was easily one of the best I've seen (I don't rate people before my time, such as Ali). IN HIS PRIME, his footwork, movement, timing, and hand speed were impeccable. His defense was his offense and vice versa; he was a very hard target to hit, and created openings like no one else I've seen. He had a fatal flaw - he forgot he had to train, and forgot he had to move. He got it in his head that he could KO anyone with one punch, and eventually stood up straight and became a punching bag. He forgot what he learned early in his career. All IMO.

I think he's a great example FOR ADULTS. He had all the raw talent in the world. He worked his tail off and did exactly as he was told, and it paid off. Then, he ignored what made him successful, and it all epically came crashing down. His work ethic and talent was what made him the fighter he was. His lack of work ethic and thinking he was above the rules were what brought about his demise.

If I were a pro fighter, his picture would be up in my training hall as a daily reminder to me. He's the perfect example of why to work hard, don't surround yourself with "yes men," and keep your head on straight. I genuinely can't think of a better example. But it takes an adult to see all of that; he's not someone you want kids looking up to.

Edit: I'd use italics instead of CAPS, but my iPhone doesn't make that an easy thing to do.

If you were going to use him for that purpose, I'd think you might want to put some phrase with the picture, so others can get the message, too.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Fact is tyson is a awful person but was a great boxer and obviously you can't use him as a role model personality wise I think he can be a role model in the way of showing how much you can achieve if you work hard despite your upbringing and any personal problems. Tyson was born into an awful family and was In jail plenty of times before he was 13 but then dedicated himself to boxing and became the youngest heavyweight champion. I mean most kids who see a picture of tyson won't know he's a convicted rapist or know anything about that they'll just think of him as an amazing boxer (or the guy who fought ip man in his last movie)

So yeah to me the guys scum read his book and anyone will agree but despite that he was a great fighter and showed what dedication can do...before he pissed it all away but that also shows how you should never get complacent so yeah I think tyson is someone to use to learn how to do some things and how not to do other things

I agree he can be a good object model for specific lessons (like you mention). That's not the same as a role model. A role model is someone you look to as a model of how you should be. In my opinion, it is never a good idea to use a partial role model (good athlete, horrible human being). You can point to specific technique when teaching, and some of what you point to might come from a scumbag. But the picture you put on the wall (unless you put a negative lesson printed under it) should be someone the students/trainees can aspire to be like. Nobody, in any endeavor, should help train people to be like someone who is seriously flawed in ways that brings a negative message.

 

[Kickboxer101]

It is possible. I've heard stories of folks who committed serious (and even violent) crimes who redeemed themselves. I admittedly don't know much of what Tyson is up to these days, but I've not heard of him starting a program with a lot of positive impact to off-set the negative impact he had in the past. That's what buys redemption in my mind.

well he's off drugs, doing movies and doing tours talking about his life and helping people not make the same mistakes he did