does your religion

[IcemanSK]

I don't see where it is the business of any person in any church when it comes to the practice of martial arts. Many religions are about control and money. They fear outside influences will loosen the grip that many churchs hold over people and their pocketbooks. I don't make decisions based on the opinions of the church pastor.

Sorry if anyone is offended by my views.

Some religions (& branches of Christianity) value pacificism as a part of piety. So for them, martial arts may be seen as a hinderance in their faith. I used to train with 2 brothers who parents were missionaries from a pacifist Christian denomination. They were of the "old school" Tae Kwon Do group that believed in hard contact with no pads....rather than their parent's influence.

 

[mantis]

I don't see where it is the business of any person in any church when it comes to the practice of martial arts. Many religions are about control and money. They fear outside influences will loosen the grip that many churchs hold over people and their pocketbooks. I don't make decisions based on the opinions of the church pastor.

Sorry if anyone is offended by my views.

thank you.
That's exactly i was more interested in knowing the 'why' part of the qeustion. to understand what the 'church' has to do with things like that.
My religion says "the strong believer is better than the weak one, although there is good in both". it also says something along the lines of "teach your children swimming, hunting, and riding horses".
the reason is to teach you to survive since you're a child. and to show the importance of strength. There are also hisotrical incidents of people practicing fighting with spears and swords withing the religious institution to encourage self-defense and so on, which are the basic obvious reasons behind most of us joining martial arts.

 

[Kacey]

Some religions (& branches of Christianity) value pacificism as a part of piety. So for them, martial arts may be seen as a hinderance in their faith. I used to train with 2 brothers who parents were missionaries from a pacifist Christian denomination. They were of the "old school" Tae Kwon Do group that believed in hard contact with no pads....rather than their parent's influence.

I have a student who has on-going problems with the minister at his church over his involvement in TKD (it's been 6 years, and he is a BB) because of the philosophy of "turn the other cheek" - if you're not supposed to hit back, why learn how? He and the minister came to some sort of agreement over this being my student's preferred form of exercise, along with the moral component, and I think he just avoids mentioning taking part in sparring competitions. Still, my student has problems with his minister repeatedly because the minister feels that training to fight is not in keeping with the philosophy of this church... I can't remember what denomination it is, though.

In contrast, I have had several students who are Orthodox Jewish, who have had no philosphical problem at all... of course, since they strongly support Israel, and two of those students are now in the Israeli army learning Krav Maga in addition, I can't imagine why they would have problems.

 

[mantis]

I have a student who has on-going problems with the minister at his church over his involvement in TKD (it's been 6 years, and he is a BB) because of the philosophy of "turn the other cheek" - if you're not supposed to hit back, why learn how? He and the minister came to some sort of agreement over this being my student's preferred form of exercise, along with the moral component, and I think he just avoids mentioning taking part in sparring competitions. Still, my student has problems with his minister repeatedly because the minister feels that training to fight is not in keeping with the philosophy of this church... I can't remember what denomination it is, though.

In contrast, I have had several students who are Orthodox Jewish, who have had no philosphical problem at all... of course, since they strongly support Israel, and two of those students are now in the Israeli army learning Krav Maga in addition, I can't imagine why they would have problems.

IMHO that's unfair. you are pretty much entitled to what the minister thinks! that's tough. can't he change the church? what are the consequences if the minister just doesnt approve of your student's training?
but hey, he should tell him i practice TKD to defend the weak people

 

[Kacey]

IMHO that's unfair. you are pretty much entitled to what the minister thinks! that's tough. can't he change the church? what are the consequences if the minister just doesnt approve of your student's training?
but hey, he should tell him i practice TKD to defend the weak people

I agree - his minister has no personal experience with martial arts, and little understanding of the philosophy that underlies them - including the defensive nature of MA's. We've discussed it several times, and he's discussed the moral components with the minister - I think in the end they agreed to disagree. Still, it's a problem for him, because his religion is important to him, and his religious leader disagrees with him training.

 

[hongkongfooey]

I think you friend needs to find another church.

 

[Kacey]

I think you friend needs to find another church.

That may be - but that is his choice, not mine, and I will not interfere in it.

 

[hongkongfooey]

I can respect that. I just can't stand to someone feel guilty about doing something that they love. Especially when the activity isn't harmful.

 

[mantis]

it's not my place to discuss his faith. but if i were him i wouldnt listen to the minister, unless he can find me proof from say the holy book of that religion that it's bad to practice MA's with a reason for that

 

[IcemanSK]

It seems that in this case, the minister is unaware of the ins & outs of the ethical side of MA. What is obvious to us, is not to the minister. My best friend's minister didn't understand either. (This was when we were in college & training) Rather than letting it cause my friend angst, he just decided that he wouldn't discuss it with his minister. My friend knew what the truth was & how the 2 held the same ethical values, even if his minister couldn't see it.

For the student of Kacey, if he wants to continue to be under that minister, he/she would be better served to not discuss MA at church. I wouldn't go so far as to say the minister is wrong (or ascribe ill motives to that person) but they are certainly uninformed.

 

[mantis]

thank you.
That's exactly i was more interested in knowing the 'why' part of the qeustion. to understand what the 'church' has to do with things like that.
My religion says "the strong believer is better than the weak one, although there is good in both". it also says something along the lines of "teach your children swimming, hunting, and riding horses".
the reason is to teach you to survive since you're a child. and to show the importance of strength. There are also hisotrical incidents of people practicing fighting with spears and swords withing the religious institution to encourage self-defense and so on, which are the basic obvious reasons behind most of us joining martial arts.

oh,
forgot to add that boxing for example is banned, since it causes injuries to the brain in the long run! harming the body is not allowed.

 

[Grenadier]

Virtually none of the clergy opposed the practice of martial arts. In fact, most of them even encouraged it. It was at a church where I got my first real exposure to the martial arts, since they allowed my friend to teach some classes there.

There was only one exception, where an aged Father (insert last name here) made a big stink about the bowing in the opening and closing ceremonies, claiming that one never bows to anyone except to God himself. He claimed that as long as we would use the bowing ceremony, that this was considered sinning.

I didn't know him that well, or for that long, since he passed away soon after he said that (from natural causes), and he wasn't really well-liked by his fellow clergymen.

 

[IcemanSK]

You're right, a lot of churhces rent out their space to MA programs. In Korea, GM Lee, Won Kuk, the founder of Chung Do Kwan, began the school in a church.

But sadly, some clergy are still uninformed.