Do you believe in guns?

Thesemindz

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Someone in another thread recently posted that he didn't "believe in guns."

So I have a question for those of you who don't "believe in guns."

Do you believe in self defense? Do you believe that people have any inherent right, seperate from the privileges granted them by their local authorities, to defend their lives against unwelcome aggression? Does anyone have the right to use violence to defend themselves under any circumstances at all? Is there any situation that you can think of where an innocent person has the right to defend themselves?

Since I'm asking, I do believe that people have the right to use violence to defend themselves. I believe that includes using whatever tools you have at hand, whether they are your hands, knives, a hammer, a baseball bat, or a firearm. I believe that if someone decides to do violence against me or my loved ones unprovoked, they forfeit their right to security. They buy the violence I will do in defense, and I feel no compunction or guilt over the consequences of their actions.

I mean this as a serious question. I'm not trying to set you up. I'm not trying to belittle you. I have my own opinion, I'm curious what yours is.


-Rob
 

mozzandherb

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Someone in another thread recently posted that he didn't "believe in guns."

So I have a question for those of you who don't "believe in guns."

Do you believe in self defense? Do you believe that people have any inherent right, seperate from the privileges granted them by their local authorities, to defend their lives against unwelcome aggression? Does anyone have the right to use violence to defend themselves under any circumstances at all? Is there any situation that you can think of where an innocent person has the right to defend themselves?

Since I'm asking, I do believe that people have the right to use violence to defend themselves. I believe that includes using whatever tools you have at hand, whether they are your hands, knives, a hammer, a baseball bat, or a firearm. I believe that if someone decides to do violence against me or my loved ones unprovoked, they forfeit their right to security. They buy the violence I will do in defense, and I feel no compunction or guilt over the consequences of their actions.

I mean this as a serious question. I'm not trying to set you up. I'm not trying to belittle you. I have my own opinion, I'm curious what yours is.


-Rob
I don't believe in the use of guns for killing people, but I do believe in the use of guns for hunting food. I believe there are too many people who own guns for the false sense of security in might bring.
I believe people have the right to use violence to defend themselves, but does this have to include guns? For me it does not need to. I believe that there are too many innocent people killed by the ignorant use of firearms everyday.
My house will never have a gun inside it, I will defend myself and my family in other ways if need be, but my wife and I both agree that guns are not needed in our house.
 

tellner

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I don't believe in them.
I don't fetishize them.
The few times they're appropriate nothing else will do, so I own a couple.
 

chinto

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yes, I believe in guns and owning them. they are a good tool. I am a citizen of the United States of America and so have a right to them! that is guaranteed by the constitution.

I do NOT believe they give a false sense of security if you know how to use one. but i do think that some people do not realize that all they are is a good dewalt drill from a distance. in short they make holes at a distance. they are not a magic wand and they are not a cure all, but they are efficient and effective when used properly for several things. ( most of them making a hole in one thing or some other; for fun, or food or in defense of your life or some one else's.)

history shows that free societies are armed, have free markets and have private property. it also shows that if they are not allowed arms, the other things normally are taken over time from them too.

SO YES I BELIEVE IN GUNS .. and HAMMERS AND AXES, AND SWORDS, AND KNIVES AND STICKS AND STONES AND WHAT EVER ELSE IS OUT THERE!
 

Cryozombie

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My house will never have a gun inside it, I will defend myself and my family in other ways if need be, but my wife and I both agree that guns are not needed in our house.

Good to know.

After all, I live by the motto that "when you have beaten your sword into a plowshare, you will find yourself subjugated by me, for I kept my sword."

Those houses with the signs that say "Gun Free Home" outside them?

Yeah. I love those too. Makes mine less desireable of a target.
 

seasoned

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Trouble with these gun free homes is, when something goes down, and an emergency happens, in the middle of the night, the first thing they do is call 911 and all those people come over in a hurry, with all those GUNS. What is worse, is the turn the other cheek deal, when you run out of cheeks who do you call,
icon7.gif
bingo someone with fresh cheeks and a gun. I feel bad for all the pacifist that dont believe in violences but have no problem with someone else handling their problems. The meek will inherit the earth, but those darn people with guns, will have to see to it, that they can keep it. Im a morning person, so Im always good for a rant when its this early. Hold on, I hear a noise, me and rosco are going to check it out.........
icon12.gif

 

KenpoTex

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I don't believe in guns either...the hundreds of thousands of people who use them every year to defend themselves should not use such evil devices. It's better to be murdered, raped, robbed, or kidnapped than to perpetuate the cycle of violence...

:rolleyes:
 

Tomu

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"Never bring a knife to a gun fight."

Theres a reason you here this said over and over.
There are certain situations where only the force a firearm can provide is needed and I think it is the responsible thing to do to be prepared for such situations.
 

thetruth

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No I don't believe guns are necessary. In Australia it's quite difficult to get a license and if u do have a gun at your house the ammo and guns have to be stored in separate gun safes so even if the time to use them did arrive the time to get the gun ready would be too long to make it effective. The right to bear arms in America is the reason it is necessary now for US citizens to own guns because it is just too easy for any ******* to buy a gun.

Cheers
Sam:asian:
 

Archangel M

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http://www.keepandbeararms.com/downloads/GunFacts_v3.2.pdf

Myth: The Availability of Guns Causes Crime


Fact: Though the number of firearms owned by private citizens has been increasing steadily since 1970, the overall rate of homicides and suicides has not risen.29

As the chart shows, there is no correlation between the availability of firearms, the homicide rate, or the suicide rate in America.


Fact: Five out of six gun-possessing felons obtained handguns from the secondary market and by theft, and "[the] criminal handgun market is overwhelmingly dominated by informal transactions and theft as mechanisms of supply.”30


Fact: The majority of handguns in possession of criminals are stolen, although not necessarily by the criminal in question.31

Fact: Most violent crime is caused by a small minority of repeat offenders. One California study found that 3.8% of a group of males born in 1956 were responsible for 55.5% of all serious felonies.32 75-80% of murder arrestees have prior arrests for a violent (including non-fatal) felony or burglary. On average they have about four felony arrests and one felony conviction.

Half of all murders are committed by people on “conditional release” (i.e., parole or probation).33 81% of all homicide defendants had an arrest record; 67% had a felony arrest record; 70% had a conviction record; and 54% had a felony conviction.34

Fact: Per capita firearm ownership rates have risen at a steady pace since 1959 while crime rates have gone up and down depending on economics, drug trafficking innovations, and “get tough” legislation.35

Thoughts: Criminals are not motivated by guns. They are motivated by opportunity. Attempts to reduce public access to firearms provide criminals more points of opportunity. It is little wonder that high-crime cities also tend to be those with the most restrictive gun control laws –which criminals tend to ignore.

Myth: Handguns are 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a criminal.

Fact: Of the 43 deaths reported in this flawed study, 37 (86%) were suicides. Other deaths involved criminal activity between the family members (drug deals gone bad).38

Fact: Of the remaining deaths, the deceased family members include felons, drug dealers, violent spouses committing assault, and other criminal activities.39

Fact: Only 0.1% (1 in a thousand) of the defensive uses of guns results in the death of the predator.40 This means you are much more likely to prevent a crime without bloodshed than hurt a family member.

Myth: 58% of murder victims are killed by either relatives or acquaintances

Fact: “Acquaintance” murders are primarily drug buyers killing drug pushers, cabdrivers killed by “customers”, gang members killing other gang members, prostitutes killed by their johns, and so on.46

Fact: Only one city, Chicago, reports a precise breakdown on the nature of acquaintance killings: Between 1990 and 1995 only 17% of murder victims were family members, friends, neighbors and/or roommates. The rest were people with criminal records, killed by other criminals.

Fact: Over 66% of murderers have long histories of violence against not only their enemies and other "acquaintances," but also against their relatives.47

Fact: In 73% of these gun-defense incidents, the attacker was a stranger to the intended victim. (Defenses against a family member or intimate were rare -- well under 10%.)48

Myth:13 children are killed each day by guns

Fact: Adults included – This “statistic” includes “children” up to age 19 or 24, depending on the source. Since most violent crime is committed by males ages 16-24, these numbers include adult gang members dying during criminal activity49 (incidentally, ‘child’ is defined by Webster as a person between birth and puberty, typically 13-14 years).

Fact: Criminals are included - 70% of these deaths are adults, age 17-20, involved in gang warfare. Half of the juveniles killed are involved in gang activity at the time of their deaths, often involved in drug related firefights.

Fact: Suicides and criminals included - These numbers include criminal activities and suicides.50 As suicides make up more than 翻 of all gun deaths, the number drops even further, to about 1.3 children a day. 51

When you do all the subtraction, the result is less than one child per day

Fact: Over 13 teenagers die every day at the wheel of their automobiles.52

Fact: Four children die each day in the U.S. from parental neglect and abuse.53

Fact: For contrast, consider this: 1,680 children die each day from malaria54 and that 15 men, women, and children per day are murdered by a convicted felon in a supposedly government supervised parole/probation program.55
 

Andy Moynihan

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No I don't believe guns are necessary. In Australia it's quite difficult to get a license and if u do have a gun at your house the ammo and guns have to be stored in separate gun safes so even if the time to use them did arrive the time to get the gun ready would be too long to make it effective. The right to bear arms in America is the reason it is necessary now for US citizens to own guns because it is just too easy for any ******* to buy a gun.

Cheers
Sam:asian:


Where do these people keep getting these ideas......
 

Andy Moynihan

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Someone in another thread recently posted that he didn't "believe in guns."

So I have a question for those of you who don't "believe in guns."

Do you believe in self defense? Do you believe that people have any inherent right, seperate from the privileges granted them by their local authorities, to defend their lives against unwelcome aggression? Does anyone have the right to use violence to defend themselves under any circumstances at all? Is there any situation that you can think of where an innocent person has the right to defend themselves?

Since I'm asking, I do believe that people have the right to use violence to defend themselves. I believe that includes using whatever tools you have at hand, whether they are your hands, knives, a hammer, a baseball bat, or a firearm. I believe that if someone decides to do violence against me or my loved ones unprovoked, they forfeit their right to security. They buy the violence I will do in defense, and I feel no compunction or guilt over the consequences of their actions.

I mean this as a serious question. I'm not trying to set you up. I'm not trying to belittle you. I have my own opinion, I'm curious what yours is.


-Rob


Take a wild guess.

You're probably right.
 

Cryozombie

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Where do these people keep getting these ideas......

The Media. People like Rosie O'Donnel and Michael Moore. After all if you believe them you can walk into a bank and with no wait or background check of any kind, the Bankers will hand you a loaded rifle and say "There you go good buddy"
 

terryl965

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Do I believe in guns, our nation was built behind the use of guns, so of course I believe in guns.
 

MBuzzy

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So I have a question for those of you who don't "believe in guns."

I know how varied our members opinions are on this one....but here's mine. I suppose that it depends on what you mean by "believe in guns." If you mean believe in the right to own them, then yes, I believe in guns. If you mean do you believe in the right to do what you want with them, then the answer is no. I own a gun, I keep it in my house. I don't think of it as a self defense weapon, nor do I ever intend to use it for self defense, although if the situation arises, I am prepared to.

I do not believe in the right of civilians to carry concealed though. It seems to me that the people who think that they need a gun, probably will. Those who don't think that they will need it, probably won't. I know all of the arguments against it, like the knife and gun fight and being prepared, etc. If you have it, you are more likely to use it.

I also believe in proportional use and escalation of force. Therefore de-escalation when possible.

I've been in places where it is really necessary to carry weapons. But they aren't concealed and that has led me to vastly alter my opinions on the matter. I can't see carrying a gun around in my hometown, where I feel safe.

Do you believe in self defense? Do you believe that people have any inherent right, seperate from the privileges granted them by their local authorities, to defend their lives against unwelcome aggression? Does anyone have the right to use violence to defend themselves under any circumstances at all? Is there any situation that you can think of where an innocent person has the right to defend themselves?

Most certainly I believe in Self Defense. People have the right to defend themselves in any circumstance where their life is in danger. People take this way too far though. It is a slippery slope for most people who can't find that ledge. There are way too many people out there who think that they have the right to defend themselves from from anyone who pisses them off for any reason. As a whole, most people aren't responsible enough to determine when the use of force is appropriate and how much force is appropriate.
 

Sukerkin

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Very similar to my own thoughts on the matter, Buzzy - most especially your last sentence.
 

SFC JeffJ

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Guns are just another tool in the self defense box. For me I believe it's a necessity, since I most likely won't be able to power walk out of dangers way.

Guns are the great equalizer against violent attack. Is it the only tool availer? No. That is why I also study martial arts of various types.
 

zDom

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Yep I've SEEN one with my own eyes! :D (couldn't resist...)


But seriously: I wish they didn't exist as I have a skill set most folk don't have.

But they DO exist ... so I am now learning how to use one. Chances are I will never have to after all I made it the first 40 years of my life without ever needing one. I hope the next 40 years go the same way.

I have applied for a CCW. Probably have about 30-odd days before I hear back on that.

I probably won't actually carry as it seems to me to be a pain in the butt.. or lower back.. or under the shoulder :). But in the future when I'm 60, 70? I might.

I probably WILL have it in my vehicle (legal in Missouri, even WITHOUT a CCW) when I anticipate traveling in places I wouldn't want to be broken down at.
 
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Thesemindz

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I don't believe in the use of guns for killing people, but I do believe in the use of guns for hunting food. I believe there are too many people who own guns for the false sense of security in might bring.
I believe people have the right to use violence to defend themselves, but does this have to include guns? For me it does not need to. I believe that there are too many innocent people killed by the ignorant use of firearms everyday.
My house will never have a gun inside it, I will defend myself and my family in other ways if need be, but my wife and I both agree that guns are not needed in our house.

I think you and your wife have every right to decide what is and is not a part of your life and your home. If you choose not to keep and use firearms in your defense, then that should be respected.

However, it would seem from your post that you believe people have the right to use violence to defend themselves, but only within a certain range and only up to a certain level of force.

I mean this as a serious question. Could a person use a bow and arrow to defend themselves? If so, then range is not your issue, it is degree of force.

So why do you feel it is ok to use violence to defend yourself, but only up to a certain degree, regardless of the violence brought against you?


-Rob
 
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