Do self defense programs work?

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do self defense programs work?

The term "self-defense" always remind me "selfish". As long as I'm OK, I don't care what may happen around me. It just gives me that cold society feeling.

Better terms can be:

- Defend and save your family members.
- Fight for your country.
- Defend and save human being from alien.
- Fight for the world peace.
- Help the weak to fight against the strong.
- Help the good to fight against the evil.
- Great power comes great responsibility.
- ...

 

[dvcochran]

Hi all, I've joined the forum because I want to learn more about martial arts for self defense. I've seen this course, do you think it's worth doing or should I be going about things in a different way?

http://russellstutelytraining.com/go.php?offer=atomic2019&pid=9

Hard pass, very hard pass.

Audit the martial art and/or long term self defense programs in your area. Hopefully they are one and the same. Try different schools and have a real talk with the instructor/owner. Also talk with several of the higher ranked students and get their views and opinions. Find what they started out looking for and what they found. Tell them what you are looking for and are concerned about. If you get real, honest answers that do not seem glossed up with a lot of fluff, see if they have a trial program you can try. Finding the right program is not a "one size fits all" solution and can take time so don't rush. An athletic 225lb male will start out looking/seeing a program differently form a 130lb petite woman. They ideas may eventually merge but not at the start. Reaching your goal takes the same mindset as a marathon runner. A few sprints will not get it done. Ever.
Stay in touch and let us know how it goes.

 

[Steve]

Hard pass, very hard pass.

Audit the martial art and/or long term self defense programs in your area. Hopefully they are one and the same. Try different schools and have a real talk with the instructor/owner. Also talk with several of the higher ranked students and get their views and opinions. Find what they started out looking for and what they found. Tell them what you are looking for and are concerned about. If you get real, honest answers that do not seem glossed up with a lot of fluff, see if they have a trial program you can try. Finding the right program is not a "one size fits all" solution and can take time so don't rush. An athletic 225lb male will start out looking/seeing a program differently form a 130lb petite woman. They ideas may eventually merge but not at the start. Reaching your goal takes the same mindset as a marathon runner. A few sprints will not get it done. Ever.
Stay in touch and let us know how it goes.

What are the goals one is trying to reach? I'm nit sure you can say its a marathon and not a sprint if we haven't sorted out what the goal is.

 

[drop bear]

And by the way.

Systems do matter now?

It isn't fun or natural ability at play?

 

[Martial D]

I think i answered that in my post. Stop taking drugs. Quit the gang. Get a job that is legal, and stop engaging in high risk behaviors. Best self defense you can get.

I dunno. At that point wouldn't it just be safer to bring your gang with you when you go out?

 

[dvcochran]

What are the goals one is trying to reach? I'm nit sure you can say its a marathon and not a sprint if we haven't sorted out what the goal is.

Without exception, someone who queries self defense classes are looking to better prepare themselves against an attack or would be assailant, at least at the start. There are a few who are looking for some kind of ego stroke but they are usually the ones who come lurking into the dojo/dojang looking for a quick fix.
I have taught many self defense primer classes with our local police department and local professional organizations. The first thing I always stress is that these classes do not, in any way, teach a reliable way to defend yourself. They, at best, teach some tricks or minor skills that may get a person out of a pinch. We work more on situational awareness and common sense rules. When someone asks me about learning self defense I will always stress that it is a process that takes time. Not to deter them from taking the class, just the opposite. I encourage the exploration in the hopes that it will help them see there is more to it than a few hours or days or even weeks of brief exposure to learn the protective skills they are seeking.
So no, it isn't a sprint. I don't want to blur the lines and lull a novice into thinking it is quick and easy (like the link in their first post) and can be done by an online source by someone with no experience. A really good way give MA a black eye.

 

[Steve]

I dunno. At that point wouldn't it just be safer to bring your gang with you when you go out?

I guess it depends on what your gang does. If it's a knitting gang, you might be okay.

 

[Steve]

Without exception, someone who queries self defense classes are looking to better prepare themselves against an attack or would be assailant, at least at the start. There are a few who are looking for some kind of ego stroke but they are usually the ones who come lurking into the dojo/dojang looking for a quick fix.
I have taught many self defense primer classes with our local police department and local professional organizations. The first thing I always stress is that these classes do not, in any way, teach a reliable way to defend yourself. They, at best, teach some tricks or minor skills that may get a person out of a pinch. We work more on situational awareness and common sense rules. When someone asks me about learning self defense I will always stress that it is a process that takes time. Not to deter them from taking the class, just the opposite. I encourage the exploration in the hopes that it will help them see there is more to it than a few hours or days or even weeks of brief exposure to learn the protective skills they are seeking.
So no, it isn't a sprint. I don't want to blur the lines and lull a novice into thinking it is quick and easy (like the link in their first post) and can be done by an online source by someone with no experience. A really good way give MA a black eye.

learning to fight takes time. But if being safer is the goal, learning to fight might not be the best gang for your buck . in fact, a 24 to 30 hour self defense course has been proven extremely effective for women self defence on college campuses. That seems like a valuable sprint.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

But if being safer is the goal, learning to fight might not be the best gang for your buck .

I think you had a bit of a freudian slip here.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Do self defense programs work?

The term "self-defense" always remind me "selfish". As long as I'm OK, I don't care what may happen around me. It just gives me that cold society feeling.

Better terms can be:

- Defend and save your family members.
- Fight for your country.
- Defend and save human being from alien.
- Fight for the world peace.
- Help the weak to fight against the strong.
- Help the good to fight against the evil.
- Great power comes great responsibility.
- ...

Well i have seen it used as priority is defending yourself (by extension who ever you wish/need to defend) and another key point is actually knowing what you get yourself into if you step into some situations. eg you could have walked away but didnt and all that and what the consequences of not walking away could be. At least the people who acknowledge the people who are taught to help or need to protect other people etc. At least if you loose and end up nearly dying you cant say it was a brazen mistake of ego and you thought it out before doing it. (and i like to repeat the point about protecting yourself and avoiding conflict and if you cant and feel you morally need to help someone or cant walk away to at least assess the situation before continuing and know the (possible) consequences of it)

I think i have raved about how i like 3 terms, sport, combat and self defence at some stages also.

And to add to your cold society feeling, you are somewhat hard programmed to put yourself first.

(i might have missed something to your post)


Also worth a note, i think you can almost always walk away/talk your way out of social violence* but you cant avoid predatory. (apart from literally spotting someone you dont like the look of and avoiding them like the plague before they can do anything)
*Assuming you aren't disinclined to the social skills needed to non violently get out of anyway.


Hopefully some of that is of use to anyone anyway.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Do self defense programs work?

The term "self-defense" always remind me "selfish". As long as I'm OK, I don't care what may happen around me. It just gives me that cold society feeling.

Better terms can be:

- Defend and save your family members.
- Fight for your country.
- Defend and save human being from alien.
- Fight for the world peace.
- Help the weak to fight against the strong.
- Help the good to fight against the evil.
- Great power comes great responsibility.
- ...

It all starts with self-defense, as a concept.

 

[Steve]

I think you had a bit of a freudian slip here.

Autocorrect got me.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Do self defense programs work?

The term "self-defense" always remind me "selfish". As long as I'm OK, I don't care what may happen around me. It just gives me that cold society feeling.

Better terms can be:

- Defend and save your family members.
- Fight for your country.
- Defend and save human being from alien.
- Fight for the world peace.
- Help the weak to fight against the strong.
- Help the good to fight against the evil.
- Great power comes great responsibility.
- ...

Unless you put on your oxygen mask first, you cannot help others.

Laying down your life for another is noble and brave. It also means that whatever happens to them after you are dead, you cannot control any longer.

Live, and help others.

So, live comes before helping others.

Therefore, self-defense.

 

[dvcochran]

learning to fight takes time. But if being safer is the goal, learning to fight might not be the best gang for your buck . in fact, a 24 to 30 hour self defense course has been proven extremely effective for women self defence on college campuses. That seems like a valuable sprint.

I am not talking about learning how to ring fight. Like I said, there are some valid tricks to be gleaned from a short self defense class but they do not work well for most women and the concern of over confidence is very real. I not even going to start on the liability concerns for the trainer of the class.

 

[drop bear]

learning to fight takes time. But if being safer is the goal, learning to fight might not be the best gang for your buck . in fact, a 24 to 30 hour self defense course has been proven extremely effective for women self defence on college campuses. That seems like a valuable sprint.

Yeah. Setting up the right environment goes a long way.

In that I would suggest a cash in transit course. Or a bodyguard one.(but they cost a heap more generally)

 

[Steve]

I am not talking about learning how to ring fight. Like I said, there are some valid tricks to be gleaned from a short self defense class but they do not work well for most women and the concern of over confidence is very real. I not even going to start on the liability concerns for the trainer of the class.

I don’t believe you are correct, and the only available evidence that I’ve ever found is on my side. As I said, if learning to fight is the goal, sure. But if personal safety is the goal, that is rarely about fighting skill.

Not saying that’s not a good skill to have.

 

[drop bear]

I don’t believe you are correct, and the only available evidence that I’ve ever found is on my side. As I said, if learning to fight is the goal, sure. But if personal safety is the goal, that is rarely about fighting skill.

Not saying that’s not a good skill to have.

For girls or guys?

 

[Steve]

Yeah. Setting up the right environment goes a long way.

In that I would suggest a cash in transit course. Or a bodyguard one.(but they cost a heap more generally)

Depends on the actual risk involved. If the greatest threat to you is date rape, a bodyguard class isn't going to be the training most likely to help.

 

[Steve]

For girls or guys?

I said earlier women on college campuses, but I really like that you are distinguishing between different contexts for self defense.

 

[drop bear]

Depends on the actual risk involved. If the greatest threat to you is date rape, a bodyguard class isn't going to be the training most likely to help.

Same concepts.

It is all about preplanning safe movements and creating exit strategies.