Do self defense programs work?

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
17,362
Reaction score
4,254
Location
Pueblo West, CO
We have a no fraudbusting policy here that prevents me from giving you my honest opinion of the site you've linked.
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,119
Reaction score
4,496
Location
England
Doing online courses are never, ever as good as finding an actual instructor and actually learning techniques.
Even if the online course did have any value you can't learn techniques properly from a video, especially as a beginner.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,684
Reaction score
1,465
Location
Manchester UK
Hi all, I've joined the forum because I want to learn more about martial arts for self defense. I've seen this course, do you think it's worth doing or should I be going about things in a different way?

http://russellstutelytraining.com/go.php?offer=atomic2019&pid=9
No, I wouldn't part with a lot of money for that, in fact I wouldn't spend any money on that.

If your actually serious about being able to handle yourself in a fight, any time soon do 6 months of strength and conditioning training and then sign on for an art that fights.
 

Martial D

Senior Master
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
3,184
Reaction score
952
Hi all, I've joined the forum because I want to learn more about martial arts for self defense. I've seen this course, do you think it's worth doing or should I be going about things in a different way?

http://russellstutelytraining.com/go.php?offer=atomic2019&pid=9

Anything labeled as 'self defense', especially when it comes with claims of teaching you to proficiency (or street lethalness or some other wordplay) in a very short time, should be taken not just with a grain of salt, but with a 25kg bag of salt.
 

Rat

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Messages
1,430
Reaction score
164
Oh lord its the civilian version of SCAR.


I wouldn't throw self defence courses under the bus generically though as there are some good ones which are designed for people who dont have time/need/want to do a regular martial arts but want a more short term solution to self defence. (granted i dont know of a legitimate teacher who wouldn't say the more you practice it the better you get at it)

But the caveat is of that type of course its meant as a short term solution to self defence for people who cant do long term training for what ever reason or lack the desire too and just want some broad range of skills they can practice now and then to get them out of most situations etc.

Just dont conflate legitimate and illegitimate. (just to clarify im not endorsing the link)
 

Martial D

Senior Master
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
3,184
Reaction score
952
Oh lord its the civilian version of SCAR.


I wouldn't throw self defence courses under the bus generically though as there are some good ones which are designed for people who dont have time/need/want to do a regular martial arts but want a more short term solution to self defence. (granted i dont know of a legitimate teacher who wouldn't say the more you practice it the better you get at it)

But the caveat is of that type of course its meant as a short term solution to self defence for people who cant do long term training for what ever reason or lack the desire too and just want some broad range of skills they can practice now and then to get them out of most situations etc.

Just dont conflate legitimate and illegitimate. (just to clarify im not endorsing the link)

I would. Straight under the bus, hopefully to be washed away down the nearest storm drain.

At least, any of them(the overwhelming majority ) that involve showing people fixed moves for very specific circumstances(he grabs you like this, you do this very unrealistic thing that only works if he cooperates and tada!).

Self defense that just teaches you situational awareness and when to run away or yell for help can be helpful I guess.

You just can't and won't learn how to defend yourself over a weekend, or even a month of weekends.

Edit - from that link, purely for the LOLs.

Look At Just Some Of The Techniques You Will Master:

  • Enter Under Cover – Safely Attack the Attacker
  • Gorilla Pull – This is PURE EVIL
  • Lung Collapser – This is Just Plain Nasty
  • Bladder and Bowel Release – OMG – See the bad guy urinate in a heap on the floor after being hit
  • One Arm Strangle – Multiple Attacker Technique
  • Brachial Stun – Instant K.O Baby
  • Thai Strangle – You NEED to learn this one – Multiple Attacker Technique
  • Much More
 

JR 137

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
5,162
Reaction score
3,213
Location
In the dojo
I didn’t watch it, but the biggest benefit to any actual self defense course lies in the situational awareness training rather than physical techniques. Avoiding putting yourself into situations and being able to recognize situations before they escalate are far more effective than any physical techniques.

And then let’s say they show you some great physical stuff. How do you know you’re actually doing them right? Is there someone correcting you? What about your target(s)? Range? Timing? Without a teacher and resisting partner, there’s no corrections and adjustments. There’s just visualizing and hitting a bag (or the air). It’s like having an argument with yourself - it doesn’t get you anywhere nor actually prepare you for anything unexpected.

Then let’s say you’re training SD with an instructor and students. You do it for a few weeks and get very good. Then what? You walk away and think you’ll have those physical skills forever? I’ve been training currently for 4 years now. My previous stint was over 6 years, so over 10 years total. I just went back 2 weeks ago after 4 months out due to a back injury. All the muscle memory stuff was intact. The basics were all easily still there. I wasn’t even especially out of shape. My timing absolutely sucks now.
 

Martial D

Senior Master
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
3,184
Reaction score
952
I didn’t watch it, but the biggest benefit to any actual self defense course lies in the situational awareness training rather than physical techniques. Avoiding putting yourself into situations and being able to recognize situations before they escalate are far more effective than any physical techniques.

And then let’s say they show you some great physical stuff. How do you know you’re actually doing them right? Is there someone correcting you? What about your target(s)? Range? Timing? Without a teacher and resisting partner, there’s no corrections and adjustments. There’s just visualizing and hitting a bag (or the air). It’s like having an argument with yourself - it doesn’t get you anywhere nor actually prepare you for anything unexpected.

Then let’s say you’re training SD with an instructor and students. You do it for a few weeks and get very good. Then what? You walk away and think you’ll have those physical skills forever? I’ve been training currently for 4 years now. My previous stint was over 6 years, so over 10 years total. I just went back 2 weeks ago after 4 months out due to a back injury. All the muscle memory stuff was intact. The basics were all easily still there. I wasn’t even especially out of shape. My timing absolutely sucks now.

Ya, I agree completely! Unfortunately martial arts skills, at least of the applicable variety, take constant maintenance.

It's like the line KFW likes to bust out - "if you do not train with your hands for three days they are no longer yours" or something like that.

Myself, I recently moved towns, and haven't been training aside from hittin the bob and general solo stuff, shadowboxing etc for a few months now. I went in for some light sparring with some guys last Friday and got wrecked. Guys I could beat before.

The moral..if you want to fight like a fighter, you need to train like a fighter.
 

JR 137

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
5,162
Reaction score
3,213
Location
In the dojo
Ya, I agree completely! Unfortunately martial arts skills, at least of the applicable variety, take constant maintenance.

It's like the line KFW likes to bust out - "if you do not train with your hands for three days they are no longer yours" or something like that.

Myself, I recently moved towns, and haven't been training aside from hittin the bob and general solo stuff, shadowboxing etc for a few months now. I went in for some light sparring with some guys last Friday and got wrecked. Guys I could beat before.

The moral..if you want to fight like a fighter, you need to train like a fighter.
I agree with it all except the 3 days part. In my experience it takes longer than 3 days. I train twice a week due to commitments of life. No problems maintaining it. 3 weeks maybe, but not 3 days.

Bag work and stuff like that is great. But nothing simulates live punches and kicks coming at you. Nothing.

My teacher and I were having a laugh about it after class the night I came back. He said I actually looked better during basics because I wasn’t compensating due to pain and tightness; I was more relaxed and stuff flowed better. But it all fell apart once we started sparring. It was “there’s the punch coming. Too late to block it because it already hit me. There’s the kick coming, oh you got your hand on it as it hit your stomach. There’s an opening, oh but now he’s no longer there because you started the counter a second too late.” He’s a quiet guy, but when he starts going, he’s hilarious. And totally right.
 

Steve

Mostly Harmless
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
18,066
Reaction score
3,760
Location
Covington, WA
Avoid high risk behaviors, pay attention and use common sense . if you are a prostitute or member of a gang, quit, and if you're a drug addict, stop. That will be $800 . I accept pay pal.
 

Martial D

Senior Master
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
3,184
Reaction score
952
Avoid high risk behaviors, pay attention and use common sense . if you are a prostitute or member of a gang, quit, and if you're a drug addict, stop. That will be $800 . I accept pay pal.
And if you happen to be a drug addicted prostitute that belongs to a gang? What then?
 

Steve

Mostly Harmless
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
18,066
Reaction score
3,760
Location
Covington, WA
And if you happen to be a drug addicted prostitute that belongs to a gang? What then?
I think i answered that in my post. Stop taking drugs. Quit the gang. Get a job that is legal, and stop engaging in high risk behaviors. Best self defense you can get.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
10,099
Reaction score
2,494
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
the biggest benefit to any actual self defense course lies in the situational awareness training rather than physical techniques.
No "situational awareness training" can help this bus driver. She has no control who will get on that bus. Also she has no place to run.

What should she do?


A brick in her purse (also know how to use it) may end this story differently. Physical techniques have it's place.

brick-girl.jpg
 
Last edited:

Tony Dismukes

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
5,841
Reaction score
4,369
Location
Lexington, KY
I think i answered that in my post. Stop taking drugs. Quit the gang. Get a job that is legal, and stop engaging in high risk behaviors. Best self defense you can get.
Until you can show me YouTube footage of someone successfully defending themself by not engaging in high-risk behaviors, I refuse to believe that it works.
 

Steve

Mostly Harmless
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
18,066
Reaction score
3,760
Location
Covington, WA
Until you can show me YouTube footage of someone successfully defending themself by not engaging in high-risk behaviors, I refuse to believe that it works.
I can do better. I can show you statistics. I understand your post is tongue in cheek but we should distinguish between video evidence and any evidence.
 

Rat

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Messages
1,430
Reaction score
164
I would. Straight under the bus, hopefully to be washed away down the nearest storm drain.

At least, any of them(the overwhelming majority ) that involve showing people fixed moves for very specific circumstances(he grabs you like this, you do this very unrealistic thing that only works if he cooperates and tada!).

Self defense that just teaches you situational awareness and when to run away or yell for help can be helpful I guess.

You just can't and won't learn how to defend yourself over a weekend, or even a month of weekends.

Edit - from that link, purely for the LOLs.

Look At Just Some Of The Techniques You Will Master:

  • Enter Under Cover – Safely Attack the Attacker
  • Gorilla Pull – This is PURE EVIL
  • Lung Collapser – This is Just Plain Nasty
  • Bladder and Bowel Release – OMG – See the bad guy urinate in a heap on the floor after being hit
  • One Arm Strangle – Multiple Attacker Technique
  • Brachial Stun – Instant K.O Baby
  • Thai Strangle – You NEED to learn this one – Multiple Attacker Technique
  • Much More

Not going to dispute the topic is filled with terrible information and is exploited to hell. But you do just need to teach somone to be slightly better than the average person. And in my view any half decent self defence course should contain some actual physical defence and then a quantity of other factors including but not limited to what you mentioned.


Also you editing in that confused the hell out of me, it didnt refresh so i thought i accidentally copied something from the website and pasted it in.


To amend the above segment i somewhat forgot i was thinking of a instructor course in my head, which is namely only used as a supplement if they don't have any of their non instructor lessons going at the time you can go to them.

Plus if its someone who is actually qualified they have trialed it to make sure most people can retain the information post course from what they do, and then you could sell or provide media as take home guides for people to remember what you taught them. anyway before my ruthless business side comes out. Also i skimmed over the segment on how to go about it and i would recommend one of the established styles you can more regularly go to.
 

Latest Discussions

Top