‘Destroy the idols,’ Egyptian jihadist calls for removal of Sphinx, Pyramids

[Big Don]

[h=1]‘Destroy the idols,’ Egyptian jihadist calls for removal of Sphinx, Pyramids[/h]Monday, 12 November 2012 By AL ARABIYA EXCERPT:



An Egyptian jihad leader, with self-professed links to the Taliban, called for the “destruction of the Sphinx and the Giza Pyramids in Egypt,” drawing ties between the Egyptian relics and Buddha statues, local media reported this week.

Murgan Salem al-Gohary, an Islamist leader twice-sentenced under former President Hosni Mubarak for advocating violence, called on Muslims to remove such “idols.”

“All Muslims are charged with applying the teachings of Islam to remove such idols, as we did in Afghanistan when we destroyed the Buddha statues,” he said on Saturday during a television interview on an Egyptian private channel, widely watched by Egyptian and Arab audiences.

“God ordered Prophet Mohammed to destroy idols,” he added. “When I was with the Taliban we destroyed the statue of Buddha, something the government failed to do.”

His comments came a day after thousands of ultraconservative Islamists gathered in Tahrir Square to call for the strict application of Sharia law in the new constitution.

But in retaliation to Gohary’s remarks, the vice president of Tunisia’s Ennahda party, Sheikh Abdel Fattah Moro, called the live program and told Gohary that famous historic military commander Amr ibn al-Aas did not destroy statues when he conquered Egypt.

“So who are you to do it?” he wondered. “The Prophet destroyed the idols because people worshiped them, but the Sphinx and the Pyramids are not worshiped.”

Gohary, 50, is well-known in Egypt for his advocacy of violence, Egypt Independent reported.

“He was sentenced twice, one of the two sentences being life imprisonment. He subsequently fled Egypt to Afghanistan, where he was badly injured in the American invasion. In 2007, he traveled from Pakistan to Syria, which then handed him over to Egypt. After Mubarak's fall in early 2011, he was released from prison by a judicial ruling,” the newspaper added.
END EXCERPT
Make sure you bend over backwards not to slander or even slightly inconvenience their culture...

 

[Sukerkin]

I think it is stretching the word to describe religious extremists as having a culture, Don.

Someone handing over their facility to reason to a fictional 'divine' authority has rather stepped away from the notion of being either civilised or rational; without those two traits you don't really have a culture in the high-functioning sense of the word. Shamanic Primitivism is more like it, the voluntary (or institutionalised) relinquishing of responsibility for actions to a 'higher', non-corporeal authority.

 

[Big Don]

Muslims, in RECENT YEARS, (i.e., yes, we know Christians did stuff HUNDREDS of years ago...) have destroyed a lot of cultural icons.
Biggest statue of Buddha in the world... Buddhist temples...

 

[Dirty Dog]

Muslims, in RECENT YEARS, (i.e., yes, we know Christians did stuff HUNDREDS of years ago...) have destroyed a lot of cultural icons.
Biggest statue of Buddha in the world... Buddhist temples...

Hundreds of years ago? Revisionist history much?
Hitler was not "hundreds of years ago". Neither was the IRA. Neither are the various Christian lunatics still out there today.

 

[Big Don]

Hundreds of years ago? Revisionist history much?
Hitler was not "hundreds of years ago". Neither was the IRA. Neither are the various Christian lunatics still out there today.

Hitler, and the IRA ran around destroying relics of other religions? The IRA attacked other Christians, Hitler was STEALING relics, not destroying them wholesale...

 

[Dirty Dog]

Hitler, and the IRA ran around destroying relics of other religions? The IRA attacked other Christians, Hitler was STEALING relics, not destroying them wholesale...

Right... because all those bombs? They didn't destroy nutin...

 

[Tez3]

Yesterday a bomb was found close to a Protestant Primary school ( children aged 4-11) in Northern Ireland, the bomb police say was designed to maim, kill and destroy. The IRA certain is trying to destroy another religions icon ie a school...complete with the children in it. This isn't the first time a bomb has been found in or near a school.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20296706

Hitler destroyed synagogues, razing them to the ground, destroying the contents.

 

[Empty Hands]

Someone handing over their facility to reason to a fictional 'divine' authority has rather stepped away from the notion of being either civilised or rational; without those two traits you don't really have a culture in the high-functioning sense of the word. Shamanic Primitivism is more like it, the voluntary (or institutionalised) relinquishing of responsibility for actions to a 'higher', non-corporeal authority.

 

[WC_lun]

Let's be clear about somthing right off the top. It isn't Muslim's that destroyed the Buddhist statues, it was extremist. While the extremist might have also been Muslims in that case, it was not the edicts of Islam they were working off of, but rather thier own extremist positions, much as extremist of other faiths. It is an important distinction, otherwise we blame a faith for the bad behaviour of extremist. For example, not all Protestants are bomb planting, wanna be child killers. Yet using the "logic" of too many people, that statement would be entirely valid if "Protestants" was changed to "Muslims." Extremist of all religions are the danger, not followers of any particular religion. If you cannot make the distinction, you might be an extremist yourself.

 

[Sukerkin]

:chuckles: Don't take it as too broad a brush, EH . We are talking extremists, those who, by the very definition, take things beyond what is reasonable or tolerable. The sticking point is, of course, who you define as 'extreme'.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

This is the perpetual issue of defining 'otherness'. We understand nuances inside our own cultures, and have difficulty seeing those same nuances in other cultures.

We (Westerners) know that there are many kinds of people who call themselves 'Christians'. Some are devout, pious, give to charity, try to live exemplary lives, and do not interfere in the lives of others. Some are out knocking on doors and trying to convert. A very tiny subset are shooting abortion doctors and blowing up abortion clinics. We do not define the latter as 'what Christians do'. We understand implicitly that extremists are the exception and not the rule (which would explain why we call them 'extremists', as noted in the thread above).

On the other hand, we do not see any shades of gray in our view of the 'other', in this case, Islam. If a Muslim kills their child in an 'honour killing' for looking at a boy, or if they throw acid on a family member for 'disgracing' them, or if they blow up an historic statue because it is forbidden in their religion, we tend to see it as 'what Muslims do', when it is not.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to be opposed to the horrible things that some extremists do. No matter their religion. But it is not molly-coddling, nor is it tacit approval, to point out that the percentage of Muslims who perform or demand such acts is rather small compared to the number of Islamic people in the world. Now frankly, if one wanted to point out that there appear to be more extremists inside the Islamic faith at the moment than there are inside the Christian faith, I'd be hard-pressed to deny it. I'm not sure what is to be done about that, but I suspect that painting all Muslims as evil is not going to do much towards encouraging them to be more moderate in their viewpoints. It seems we are doing the work of the Islamic extremists for them; we push the moderates into their arms. Brilliant, that.

Of course, one would be bound to ask, if one wished to pursue flawed reasoning, what one proposed be done about this blowing up of statues or killing of children, presuming it is done outside of one's own country.

Shall we kill all Muslims? That would be rather difficult, I think, but I'm open to suggestions on how this could be accomplished, just for the sake of humor.

Shall we invade all Islamic nations? We've done so well with the last two, it beggars the imagination to perceive how we could possibly accomplish this, but again, I'm interested in how one envisions such could be accomplished.

Or is this just generalized whingeing about those terrible Muslims? If so, boring. Very boring.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Destruction of early Islamic heritage sites

The destruction of sites associated with early Islam is an on-going phenomenon that has occurred mainly in the Hejaz region of western Saudi Arabia, particularly around the holy cities of Mecca and Medina. The demolition has focused on mosques, burial sites, homes and historical locations associated with the Islamic prophet, Muhammad and many of the founding personalities of early Islamic history. In Saudi Arabia, many of the demolitions have officially been part of the continued expansion of the Masjid Al-Haram at Mecca and the Prophet's Mosque in Medina and their auxiliary service facilities in order to accommodate the ever-increasing number of Hajj pilgrims. Detractors of the demolitions and expansion programs have argued that this phenomenon is part of the implementation of state-endorsed Wahhabi religious policy that emphasizes the Oneness of God (Tawhid) and entirely rejects the worship of divine proxies to God or even the practices and habits which might lead to idolatry and polytheistic association (Shirk).

...attempt was made to tear down Muhammad's tomb ...

...the house where Muhammad was born was converted into a library and was slated for demolition as part of an expansion project....

Islam’s core tenet is the recognition and worship of one supreme, non-Trinitarian God, which it shares with Judaism. Islam espouses the direct link between a believer and the God and rejects the intercession or the existence of a medium between the two. Although this position can be considerably more complex within the different schools and strains of Islamic theology, the conservative orthodoxy of Wahhabism adheres strictly and literally to this position and prefers to abide by a more narrow and safeguarded interpretation.

The widespread demolition of gravesites, tombs, mausoleums, birthplaces, mosques or locations otherwise connected with the prophet Muhammad, his family and companions, pious individuals or important events in Islamic history after the Saudi conquest of the Hejaz was an attempt to eradicate non-orthodox practices that had become established in regional Islam during that time. The ongoing demolition of similar places until the present day may constitute the continued effort by Saudi authorities to safeguard Islamic monotheism against non-orthodox practices that are not recognized by Islam.

Controversy arises because, like any theological issues, there are wide differences in opinion concerning orthodoxy, and with what constitutes acceptable Islamic practices and what does not. This is further compounded by the countless interpretations of Islamic theology that can be present in places such as Mecca and Medina, where millions of Muslim visitors from diverse regions and backgrounds of the Islamic World can congregate in the same space at any given time.

Not in dispute Islam prohibits the deification of anything other than God and this includes the attributing of divine characteristics (such as all-encompassing power or the control or knowledge of human destiny) to anyone or thing other than God, including prophets and saints. Furthermore, there exist within the accredited traditions of Muhammad (Sunnah) several injunctions prohibiting the visitation of sites and more specifically the erecting of structures over graves such as mausoleums and Mosques. It is according to these specific orders from the Prophetic authority of Muhammad that Wahhabi and other orthodox Muslims devise the rulings that permit the demolition referenced above.

Below is the incomplete lists of destroyed sites


Mosques


The mosque at the grave of Sayyid al-Shuhada’ Hamza bin Abdul Muttalib.
The Mosque of Fatima Zahra.
The Mosque of al-Manaratain.
Mosque and tomb of Sayyid Imam al-Uraidhi ibn Ja‘far al-Sadiq, destroyed by dynamite on August 13, 2002.
Four mosques at the site of the Battle of the Trench in Medina.
The Mosque of Abu Rasheed.
Salman al-Farsi Mosque, in Medina.
Raj'at ash-Shams Mosque, in Medina.


Cemeteries and tombs


Jannat al-Baqi in Medina, leveled, still open access for men only.
Jannat al-Mu'alla, the ancient cemetery at Mecca.
Grave of Hamida al-Barbariyya, the mother of Imam Musa al-Kazim.
Grave of Amina bint Wahb, Muhammad’s mother, bulldozed and set alight in 1998.
Graves of Banu Hashim in Mecca.
Tombs of Hamza and other martyrs were demolished at Uhud.
Tomb of Eve in Jeddah,[15] sealed with concrete in 1975.
Grave of the father of Muhammad, in Medina.


Historical religious sites


The house of Mawlid where Muhammad is believed to have been born in 570. Originally turned into a cattle market, it now lies under a rundown building which was built 70 years ago as a compromise after Wahhabi clerics called for it to be torn down.
The house of Khadija, Muhammad’s first wife. Muslims believe he received some of the first revelations there. It was also where his children Fatimah and Qasim were born. After it was rediscovered during the Haram extensions in 1989, it was covered over and it was made into a library.
House of Muhammed in Medina, where he lived after the migration from Mecca.
Dar al Arqam, the first Islamic school where Muhammad taught.[16] It now lies under the extension of the Masjid Al Nabawi of Madinah.
Qubbat’ al-Thanaya, the burial site of Muhammed's incisor that was broken in the Battle of Uhud.
Mashrubat Umm Ibrahim, built to mark the location of the house where Muhammad’s son, Ibrahim, was born to Mariah.
Dome which served as a canopy over the Well of Zamzam.
Bayt al-Ahzan of Sayyida Fatima, in Medina.
House of Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq, in Medina.
Mahhalla complex of Banu Hashim, in Medina.
House of Ali where Hasan and Husayn were born.

 

[Carol]

You can see terror actions from people of many backgrounds, including Christian, Hindu, Maoists, etc. on the South Asia Terror Portal, www.satp.org I will present one warning though. The founder is KPS Gill, is a retired Indian police officer who gained notoriety during the 1984 Sikh pogroms that followed Indira Gandhi's assasination. He is not without controversy himself, especially for his (aggressive) counter-terrorism efforts while in uniform. That being said, I find his SATP site to be rather neutral and fact-based, focusing on events and not editorializing.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Terrorist Groups


List of designated terrorist organizations


Domestic terrorism in the United States

 

[Flying Crane]

Hey Don, what's your solution to the issue? How would you handle it, if you had the power and authority to follow thru?

 

[Big Don]

Hey Don, what's your solution to the issue? How would you handle it, if you had the power and authority to follow thru?

I'd tell everyone to STFU, but, I'm kinda antisocial...

 

[Xue Sheng]

but, I'm kinda antisocial...

That explaiins why I don't see you at the meetings

 

[Touch Of Death]

Of course, Don's underlying point is that Islamic people don't think like Westerners. We get it. However, when you consider how they do think its very interesting. For instance, the is no such thing as creativity; instead, they are extemporaneous, which is actually a more accurate term for the concept we know as creativity, which brings us to what Don is talking about. Graven images are in fact a re-creation of what they consider non-created. Its all very sinful.
Sean

 

[Big Don]

Of course, Don's underlying point is that Islamic people don't think like Westerners. We get it. However, when you consider how they do think its very interesting. For instance, the is no such thing as creativity; instead, they are extemporaneous, which is actually a more accurate term for the concept we know as creativity, which brings us to what Don is talking about. Graven images are in fact a re-creation of what they consider non-created. Its all very sinful.
Sean

No, my underlying point, was, and is, that were Westerners to destroy the Ka'aba, there would be all kinds of hell to pay. Aforementioned Hell to pay would start with decrying the wanton destruction of Muslim culture. When Muslims destroy Buddhist icons, and even MUSLIM icons, it is virtually ignored.

 

[Touch Of Death]

No, my underlying point, was, and is, that were Westerners to destroy the Ka'aba, there would be all kinds of hell to pay. Aforementioned Hell to pay would start with decrying the wanton destruction of Muslim culture. When Muslims destroy Buddhist icons, and even MUSLIM icons, it is virtually ignored.

Why would westerners want to do that? Secondly, its understood, and therefore virtually ignored.
Sean