Conservative Republicans Against the War?

TwistofFat

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Steve,


A few notes - I believe it is safe to say Pat B. is more and more a Libertarian than a Neo-con. I am no expert on Neo- cons (as defined by Wolfowitz, Perle and others), but I was under the impression that they pushed the intervention doctrine. After the 2000 election, Buchanan burned (at least singed) his 'bridge' to the republican party.
It's not fair to say all republicans are neo-cons (like all democrats hate SUV's), but I think it is fair to say Buchanan is more Libertarian than Rebublican. IMO.

Isarael - wow, this would take some time and it is such a polarizing issue among the electorate (like say religion or politics :)). I think it far to say that the US foreign policy and funding is driven by ...power, safety, money - your pick, but on both sides of the isle. Mr. Clinton courted the PLO mightely but did not cave into their final demands - even with Yitzhak Rabin and the Islo meetings, he eventually sided with the Israelis.
A better example might be South Korea. With China on the border and the south pursuing unity with the North, we need those divisions elsewhere (not welcomed anyway), we are slowly moving them.
If Syria, Iran, Eqypt, etc where balanced by anyother than Israel, we might them as well...wait we do:

"Ambassador Welch noted that the United States is continuing its longstanding role as the leading international contributor to developing Egypts power infrastructure. Since 1975, the USAID/Egypt has funded $1.8 billion in upgrades to Egypts electrical power grid, supporting about 35 percent of the increase in Egypts total capacity in that time and directly benefiting an estimated 40 million Egyptians. The Ambassador noted several recent U.S.-funded projects that have increased the efficiency of the national power system by reducing losses and improving performance (See list below)...http://www.usaid-eg.org/detail.asp?id=293".

I am no expert on US funds to the PLA but..."
According to the International Monetary Fund, Arafat has diverted $900 million in Palestinian aid to a private bank account."
It came from the US and many others: "What is Mr. Arafat and the Palestinian Authority worth today?" asks accountant Jim Prince. "Who is controlling that money? Where is that money? How do we get it back?"

So far, Prince's team has determined that part of the Palestinian leader's wealth was in a secret portfolio worth close to $1 billion -- with investments in companies like a Coca-Cola bottling plant in Ramallah, a Tunisian cell phone company and venture capital funds in the U.S. and the Cayman Islands...http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/07/60minutes/main582487.shtml".

They are all criminals. Perhaps Mr. Buchanan is right after all?

Regards - Glenn.
 
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hardheadjarhead

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TwistofFat said:
Steve,


A few notes - I believe it is safe to say Pat B. is more and more a Libertarian than a Neo-con. I am no expert on Neo- cons (as defined by Wolfowitz, Perle and others), but I was under the impression that they pushed the intervention doctrine. After the 2000 election, Buchanan burned (at least singed) his 'bridge' to the republican party.
It's not fair to say all republicans are neo-cons (like all democrats hate SUV's), but I think it is fair to say Buchanan is more Libertarian than Rebublican. IMO.


Glenn,

I'd have to disagree. I think it'd be difficult to pin P.B. down on the Libertarian agenda regarding the legalization of marijuana, the decriminalization of gay sex (now a moot point with recent Supreme Court ruling), and the elimination of the notion of other "consensual" crimes such as prostitution, euthenasia, suicide, seat belt laws...

Buchanen is an "old school" conservative, having served Richard Nixon during his second term. He's hardly the libertine that Bill Buckley likes to tag Libertarians as being.

Regards,

Steve
 

TwistofFat

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Steve,

You maybe right. Perhaps the R party has 'left' Pat B. behind, not the other way around.

I am a Libertarian, but like the D or R I do have many issues with the party's positions (too long to list). I could be better called a Constitutionalist.

Thanks for the insight - Regards, Glenn.
 
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hardheadjarhead

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TwistofFat said:
Steve,

You maybe right. Perhaps the R party has 'left' Pat B. behind, not the other way around.

I am a Libertarian, but like the D or R I do have many issues with the party's positions (too long to list). I could be better called a Constitutionalist.

Thanks for the insight - Regards, Glenn.


Many embracing the Libertarian philosophy call themselves "Progressives", and some liberals are trying to stake claim to that word because "liberal" has been so demonized.

I've heard P.J. O'Rourke and Richard Posner described as "conservatives", where they are quite liberal in some respects. Both, I think, label themselves "progressive".

Confusing, isn't it?

Me, I'm a liberative. Or a conserviberal. Something like that.

Regards,


Steve

P.S.

Thought: If Bush is a "compassionate conservative", can I be a "ruthless liberal?" How would one be a ruthless liberal? Would one's heart bleed without discrimination and concern for biohazard contamination?
 

Rich Parsons

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Labels?

Why do we need them? To make a quick and easy decision without any real background work.

I like to support issues that support the U.S. Constitution. I also support our Military and the research they do. I also support our Space programs. All would say Conservative.

I also support Unions for they have made a difference, and I also support 'Well-fare' and ADC (Aid to Dependant Children), for I have seen it work well for some who were on it for short periods of time. I support the right to choose, for I believe this to be a freedom of choice issue.

All issues are not the same.
 

Feisty Mouse

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Thought: If Bush is a "compassionate conservative", can I be a "ruthless liberal?" How would one be a ruthless liberal? Would one's heart bleed without discrimination and concern for biohazard contamination?
I love it! :boing2:

And

Labels?

Why do we need them? To make a quick and easy decision without any real background work.

I like to support issues that support the U.S. Constitution. I also support our Military and the research they do. I also support our Space programs. All would say Conservative.

I also support Unions for they have made a difference, and I also support 'Well-fare' and ADC (Aid to Dependant Children), for I have seen it work well for some who were on it for short periods of time. I support the right to choose, for I believe this to be a freedom of choice issue.

All issues are not the same.
Well said, Rich. :)
 
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hardheadjarhead

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TwistofFat said:
I can not be certain, but I think 4 of us just agreed on something?!!


Five, if you count me and give me credit for poking fun at labels.

I'm pro-labor...so I'm a liberal. WAIT...I'm strong on the military, gotta be a conservative. Whoa...I'm all for gay rights. Must be a repressed homosexual left winger. But...but...I own ten guns! Gotta be a right wing gun nut on the verge of "going postal". But I believe in saving the environment! I'm an bunny hugging Birkenstock wearing granola-Nazi! Stop...stop...I'm all for fiscal responsilility. That means without a doubt I'm one of those austere lemon sucking old-school Republicans. Yet I'm for the separation of church and state...must mean I'm an atheistic Godless pinko! On the other hand I'm all for being tough on crime...must be a heartless minority hating right winger. But I'm all for stem cell research...that makes me a crazed supporter of infanticide, a child killer by proxy! Yet I'm pro-education...which makes me an elitist Ivory Tower intellectual who wants to waste tax dollars on hopeless minorities who will squander their education.

Thanks...all of this instrospection has made me polarized and neurotic, a wind changing Warwick* who oscillates 'twixt left and right.

Or, on the other hand, I could be like many of you and exercize a line item veto when it comes to setting my political course in life.

Regards,


Steve

*Obscure literary reference. Anybody want to name the author?
 

Feisty Mouse

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Would that be a Shakespeare quote, Steve? Ummm... maybe one of the Henry plays?
 
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PeachMonkey

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hardheadjarhead said:
*Obscure literary reference. Anybody want to name the author?
"Sail how thou canst, have wind and tide thy friend,
This hand, fast wound
about thy coal-black hair

Shall, whiles thy head is
warm and new cut off,

Write in the dust this
sentence with thy blood,

'Wind-changing Warwick now
can change no more.'"

King Kenry VI, Part III: Act V, Scene I. King Edward I speaking to the mayor of Coventry before battle.
 

Rich Parsons

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hardheadjarhead said:
Five, if you count me and give me credit for poking fun at labels.

I'm pro-labor...so I'm a liberal. WAIT...I'm strong on the military, gotta be a conservative. Whoa...I'm all for gay rights. Must be a repressed homosexual left winger. But...but...I own ten guns! Gotta be a right wing gun nut on the verge of "going postal". But I believe in saving the environment! I'm an bunny hugging Birkenstock wearing granola-Nazi! Stop...stop...I'm all for fiscal responsilility. That means without a doubt I'm one of those austere lemon sucking old-school Republicans. Yet I'm for the separation of church and state...must mean I'm an atheistic Godless pinko! On the other hand I'm all for being tough on crime...must be a heartless minority hating right winger. But I'm all for stem cell research...that makes me a crazed supporter of infanticide, a child killer by proxy! Yet I'm pro-education...which makes me an elitist Ivory Tower intellectual who wants to waste tax dollars on hopeless minorities who will squander their education.

Thanks...all of this instrospection has made me polarized and neurotic, a wind changing Warwick* who oscillates 'twixt left and right.

Or, on the other hand, I could be like many of you and exercize a line item veto when it comes to setting my political course in life.

Regards,


Steve

*Obscure literary reference. Anybody want to name the author?


I agree, labels do not work. I forgot about the homosexual issues and gun issues as well, thanks Steve.
 
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hardheadjarhead

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Bravo to Feisty and Peachmonkey!

Please tell me you're both as brilliant as I've come to believe, and you didn't Google that.

Regards,


Steve
 
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PeachMonkey

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hardheadjarhead said:
Please tell me you're both as brilliant as I've come to believe, and you didn't Google that.
I remembered the character and the play, but I had to hit my bookshelf for the actual quote, Steve... my memory's not *that* good, sadly :)
 

Feisty Mouse

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lol - no, that was memory. I'm relieved to know that PeachMonkey actually had to look up the quote - otherwise I was going to be QUITE jealous of PM's memory!
 

Feisty Mouse

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:roflmao: Wait, if I'm a ruthless liberal, will I no longer count as a hellbound Democrat, or an elitist?

lol!
 

TwistofFat

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Good news - I am pretty sure you can be all of the above. I am a Libertarian and am married to one of you, er ...got to be careful here she's lurking nearby...fine people. LOL - Glenn.
 
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hardheadjarhead

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TwistofFat said:
Good news - I am pretty sure you can be all of the above. I am a Libertarian and am married to one of you, er ...got to be careful here she's lurking nearby...fine people. LOL - Glenn.

Okay...everybody gang up on Glenn and get him to vote Democrat...JUST THIS ONCE.

Puhleeeeeeeeeze?

The fate of the world hangs in the balance, after all....


Regards,


Steve
 

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