Defining "Complete"

[Rook]

No art is or can be truly complete. Every art does and must specialize. Any art could be complimented by another art that specializes in something else.

 

[DeLamar.J]

I might have some agreed here if you said to be a complete martial artist. But still you have set an awfully high standard and possibly unattainable.

However if this is you criteria for a complete martial art you have set a standard so high that no single art will be able to attain it.

Just on the basis of "Martial arts Philosophy" alone. From where, whose philosophy, China, Japan, Korea, India, Western, Filipino, Karate, Judo, Aikido, Shaolin, Taoist, Wing Chun, Xingyi, Kali, TKD, JKD? Or all martial arts philosophies?

I left my 5 discriptions vague purposely because of many different options you can pick out of each one. By stand up I mean any good primarily stand up art, same for grappling. There are many different bladed weapons, long weapons, and double weapons to choose from. As far a martial arts philosophy goes, which ever ones you like most. There are so many that you could not possibly learn all of them. Firearm training is also very vague because of all the different firearms, again its all up to the user, a 90lb woman might want to reconsider learning the double barrel sawed off shotgun.
It all comes down to each individuals choice of each number. I think that my 5 discriptions offer a very nice goal to aim at.

Goals are not always able to be met, but more like something to keep you always working for.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I left my 5 discriptions vague purposely because of many different options you can pick out of each one. By stand up I mean any good primarily stand up art, same for grappling. There are many different bladed weapons, long weapons, and double weapons to choose from. As far a martial arts philosophy goes, which ever ones you like most. There are so many that you could not possibly learn all of them. Firearm training is also very vague because of all the different firearms, again its all up to the user, a 90lb woman might want to reconsider learning the double barrel sawed off shotgun.
It all comes down to each individuals choice of each number. I think that my 5 discriptions offer a very nice goal to aim at.

Goals are not always able to be met, but more like something to keep you always working for.

I can't argue with that answer, goals are good, and different from individual to individual

 

[DeLamar.J]

A system can never be complete, it should just do it`s job and do it well.
For instance the Infantry produces good riflemen, not sumo wrestlers or pilots.

I think you must ask yourself this question, do you wish to specialize, or be vey well rounded?
I choose well rounded.

 

[Last Fearner]

What in your opinion makes an art "complete," why?

Breathe In . . . . . . Breate Out!

If you have not breathed in, you have not started your training.

If you breathe in, but fail to breathe out, your training is over; "completed."

If you breathe in, and out, but do not breathe in to the full capacity of your lungs, then your breath is not complete. Shallow Breathing is sufficient to survive, but not complete.

The universe is complete. All things are there, even as the universe changes.

The "Martial Art" is complete. All knowledge (body, mind, and spirit), is there, even as time, environment, and circumstances change. It is the interpretation, understanding, and instruction which is often incomplete.

If you can count to three, you can make your Martial Art training "complete"

"Self Defense" (techniques, skills, and tactics) is only one aspect of the Martial Art.

Please note my signature quote by Bruce Lee, and understand the root.

is your art complete in your opinion?

Not my art, but the "Art" from which we all draw our knowledge is complete, and the method in which I perform, and choose to teach the Art is complete.

Don't poke a hole in the shade, and let a little light in....
Don't open the blinds, and let a lot of light in....
Step out into the open, and absorb all of the light!

Then go back inside before you get heat stroke, a sunburn, or develop skin cancer!

Sincerely,
Chief Master D. J. Eisenhart

 

[Brother John]

"Complete" I think is the wrong term.
I think most people are going for "Covers all the bases of combat", or for short "Well rounded".

"Complete" As Last Fearner has said, is already obtained by mere existance.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

hahahaha.....


"Last Fearner"

Took me a second.


Bour Yrother
Nhoj

 

[Jenna]

Breathe In . . . . . . Breate Out!

If you have not breathed in, you have not started your training.

If you breathe in, but fail to breathe out, your training is over; "completed."

If you breathe in, and out, but do not breathe in to the full capacity of your lungs, then your breath is not complete. Shallow Breathing is sufficient to survive, but not complete.

The universe is complete. All things are there, even as the universe changes.

The "Martial Art" is complete. All knowledge (body, mind, and spirit), is there, even as time, environment, and circumstances change. It is the interpretation, understanding, and instruction which is often incomplete.

If you can count to three, you can make your Martial Art training "complete"

"Self Defense" (techniques, skills, and tactics) is only one aspect of the Martial Art.

Please note my signature quote by Bruce Lee, and understand the root.




Not my art, but the "Art" from which we all draw our knowledge is complete, and the method in which I perform, and choose to teach the Art is complete.

Don't poke a hole in the shade, and let a little light in....
Don't open the blinds, and let a lot of light in....
Step out into the open, and absorb all of the light!

Then go back inside before you get heat stroke, a sunburn, or develop skin cancer!

Sincerely,
Chief Master D. J. Eisenhart

Wow LF this is absolutely amazing your ability for lateral thinking is enlightening thank you and sorry I just had to say maybe I should have repped you but I rather say here because I think your openness to ideas is exceptional and I am thinking that you read philosophy and wondering which?

I am inclined to take the view that my art is complete. I am furthermore inclined to take the view that all the rest are also. I think the recipients to this question have subconsciously pitted their art against the others ahh but competition is inherent in us all maybe.....

I define "complete" in my art looking at it as my toolbox that gives me all the tools exactly that I need to do what Ido. I will say that it may not be a complete art for everyone and not everyone knows how to use or has a preference for these particular tools and techniques but for each of us there is a complete art if we find what fits us and then put sufficient effort into it. It is foolish to take an art for a year or two.... or worse for a month or two and run off next door in some irrational attempt to add to its completeness. All arts have sufficiency in them I think....

And I am NEVER caught short in my art but I admit to having come up short recently as a plain fault of my own and this would NEVER detract from my art but simply from me as an incomplete artist.... but I am trying! I am certain though that Ican only ever get to 99% because where the complete art exists in many forms the complete artist will NEVER exist

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Last Fearner]

Jenna, you are amazing! I am amused, and pleasantly surprised (although I suppose I shouldn't be) at the degree in which we think alike. You are right that many Martial Artists automatically start to pit their school or system against the others instead of realizing the possibility that we all have completeness in the same Art, the same knowledge, just with different levels of understanding at each stage in our training.

I smiled at your reference to the "tools" in your "toolbox." This is one of the analogies that I was considering using. To me, it is like building a house for shelter. By today's standards, homes are built much different than 100 or 200 years ago. The "tools" have also changed. If I wanted to build a log cabin in the 1800s, I might only need a hand saw. Other tools available might help get the job done easier, such as an axe, and a hammer or even a saw mill.

In modern times, we have power tools, and a variety of choices for each aspect of the building process. It helps to have power saws, power drills, power nail guns, a level, a square, a tape measure, etc, etc. However, no matter what the tools are that you have in your box, they do you little good if you don't know how to use them, or how to construct a house. If you are taught the basics, and after many years on the job, you could build just about anything. However, if you spent 40 years just building tool sheds, you might not be able to build a skyscraper. Yet, if you had the education of an architect, and a builder, with knowledge of structures, foundations, materials, and stayed current with new discoveries, your potential to build is limitless.

On the other hand, if a knowledgable builder were shipwrecked on an island, would he/she have the basic skills to build a simple shelter with their bare hands (no advanced tools) in order to survive? Perhaps not. In my opinion, to be complete in your skills, and the "tools in your toolbox" you need whatever is currently available, and most beneficial to your circumstances. If you have power tools available, but there is no electric supply where you are, what good are they? If you have power tools and electricity, but are using hand tools because you don't know how to use the advanced tools, then your skills are not complete. If you know how to use the power tools, but they are not available (you are shipwrecked), yet you can build a shelter with a pocket knife, your skills are complete.

To me, "complete" means to have everything that I need at that particular time. Not everything that exists. A workman goes on a job, he does not take every tool in his shop. Just what he anticipates needing to get the job done. You don't need to own every tool available in the hardware store to have a "complete" tool box for building, or fixing things.

My life is "complete" at this time, for me, because I have all the things I need, and more. I have a home, car, job, wife, kids, and food to eat. In the years past, I did not have all of those things, but my life was complete then, because I was not at that stage in life. In the future, I might have more or less, but my life will only be incomplete if I feel that there is something missing that I should have at that moment. Then, I would go out and find it.

The Martial Art that I study is complete, and I am complete as a Martial Artist because I understand everything that my opponent can do to me in basic concepts that merely adjust for advanced or unknown factors. I know how to deal with each of these things, and stand a much better chance of survival than my opponent. This does not mean that I do not have things to learn, or that I am undefeatable, but I am "complete" for what I might encounter at this time (I am currently working on defense against light-sabers, and ray-guns for the future). :jedi1: :shock:

The funny thing is, I am not special in this regard. I believe all of us have the same abilities and potential, just some have not discovered it yet. The issue of being "complete" boils down to definition. By my interpretation, "complete" does not mean "knowing everything." It means knowing everything that you need to know to accomplish each task you might encounter. "Having all necessary or normal parts, components, or steps; entire: a complete meal." (American Heritage Dictionary, 2000). A "complete meal" or "complete diet" does not contain all the food you could possibly eat. It contains each element of a healthy diet that you need to survive. Thus is the same for the Martial Art, and the Martial Artist.

Enjoying the conversation with all of you! :asian:
CM D. J. Eisenhart

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I don't think a system or art can be complete. Since you can't learn everything then the system can't be complete. However I do feel it can be well rounded in covering many aspects.