Martial Art Complete System?

[Hawke]

Hello All,

I am a newbie. I was wondering if there is a true complete martial art system?

Would a complete system be better than MMA?

What will make a complete martial art system?

Strikes (hands, feet, elbows, knees, fingers, head, hips, shins, shoulders)

Foot work

Ground fighting (grappling)

Pressure points

Solo, Partner, Mutliple Attack practices

Self Defense (roleplaying scenarios)

Katas

Weapons (Tradional and Modern)

Would you consider Kung Fu San Soo, Kenpo, Bujinkan, Jujitsu to be a complete system? What other martial art would you consider to be a complete system? Would these systems be better than cross training MMA?

So many questions....yup I'm a newbie.

Thank you,
Hawke

 

[MJS]

Hello All,

I am a newbie. I was wondering if there is a true complete martial art system?

Would a complete system be better than MMA?

What will make a complete martial art system?

Strikes (hands, feet, elbows, knees, fingers, head, hips, shins, shoulders)

Foot work

Ground fighting (grappling)

Pressure points

Solo, Partner, Mutliple Attack practices

Self Defense (roleplaying scenarios)

Katas

Weapons (Tradional and Modern)

Would you consider Kung Fu San Soo, Kenpo, Bujinkan, Jujitsu to be a complete system? What other martial art would you consider to be a complete system? Would these systems be better than cross training MMA?

So many questions....yup I'm a newbie.

Thank you,
Hawke

Is there such a thing as a complete system? One thing to consider is how much depth does an art have to have in a certain area for it to be considered complete? In other words, take grappling. If a system has ground work included in it, how detailed does that grappling have to be? A few basic escapes? On the level of a MMA student?

Its really a hard question to answer. IMO, we're only as limited as we want to be. I'd say addressing punching, kicking and clinch ranges is important. Having an understanding of the ground is important. Weapons is another area. Scenario drills are another important area.

While we may never be 100% covered, I'd rather play on the cautious side and try to be as prepared as possible. Chances are we're not going to be facing the MMA fighter or the FMA master on the street, but I'd rather prepare for that person, rather than be lax in my training.

 

[thetruth]

There is no such thing as a complete system. In my opinion if a system was ever to consider itself complete it would have to cover all aspects completely. As MJS said you can just prepare yourself as best you can. MMA is by no means complete as although they cover striking and grappling they also follow a set of rules which restricts what is practiced so although it is effective for self defence it is still a sport by its ver nature

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[James Kovacich]

I used to think my system was complete and I was right based on my definition at that time. It certainly was complete enough in regards training all ranges.

But today I don't think that any martial art can be complete. If an art is still evolving then it can't be complete and if it is stagnant then it isn't complete either.

I think that many systems today are well rounded which would equal to complete enough.

 

[Rook]

Every system has its own specialties, strengths and weaknesses. A complete system is truly impossible. Instead, my advice is to look at what you want to do well, find who does it well, and then train as they train under the guidance of the best instructor available to you.

 

[kodo]

It sounds like you already have a good idea of what you might want in a discipline. I would always lean toward starting with a single discipline rather than direct MMA training. While Bruce Lee said that you should only use what works and toss what doesn't, he also said that you need a good foundation to start with. Starting with a single discipline gives you a detailed idea of how your body works, how it interacts with your opponant, and how your opponants body works. A single discipline will, most likely, have a detailed code of ethics or dojo rules. I have studied few different disciplines and there is a lot of stuff i learned in Judo that helps me to understand each new art and there are some things, ethics and such, that I will never lose. I would think that it would be a lot harder to find a sensei of MMA with good training technique that is certified than a single art that the trainer has earned his/her place through vigorous practice, performance, and testing by a superior.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((IMO))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

 

[tradrockrat]

Every system has its own specialties, strengths and weaknesses. A complete system is truly impossible. Instead, my advice is to look at what you want to do well, find who does it well, and then train as they train under the guidance of the best instructor available to you.

I just wanted to second this post - this is your answer.

 

[Andrew Green]

I am a newbie. I was wondering if there is a true complete martial art system?

"complete system" is pretty much marketing speak to be honest. It sounds meaningful, but has absolutely no real meaning.

To be "complete" you need a goal, if your goal is boxing at a pro level, then MMA is not complete, in fact its got a ton of completely uneccessary things and does a lot of other things "wrong".

If your goal is to do everything, from every art, and fight under every possible circumstance, well that's just not practical, or likely possible.

It's kind of like peanut butter, you only got so much. Some people like to pile it all on one little cracker, others on a sandwich, and some people like to think they've covered the whole kitchen. They are of course wrong.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

practice is fractal.

a single kata can be a complete system if you study it deeply enough. blocks become strikes become weapon techniques become ground tactics become footwork tutorials become points of enlightenment become understanding become better blocks...

 

[matt.m]

Andrew and Rook have nailed the correct answer. If you want to work a lot of hands and feet with forms then karate or tae kwon do is for you. You want to work a lot of grappling and throwing then judo, jiu jitsu and aikido are for you. If you want grappling, hands, feet, throwing, locks and some ground work then hapkido is for you.

MMA is a great system if you want to compete, get in great shape as well as awesome cardio. The theme is "Find what you most want to learn, choose a style and become dedicated to it." There is no good, better or best in this scenerio, it is all chooser driven.

 

[Steel Tiger]

The complete system. The ultimate goal of so many martial artists. Unfortunately, it cannot really be attained, which does not mean we should not try as best we can.

It is far better to try to be complete in oneself than to seek the allusive chimera of the complete system.

 

[Steel Tiger]

practice is fractal.

a single kata can be a complete system if you study it deeply enough. blocks become strikes become weapon techniques become ground tactics become footwork tutorials become points of enlightenment become understanding become better blocks...

Shut the doors and block the windows and know the universe - Lao Tzu

If you make the field small enough it will be complete, eventually.

 

[g-bells]

"time is a made up thing ,then by saying you do not have the time, is to say tou don' want to" Lao Tzu


not such thing as a "complete art", one strives to be the best in their art , which can never be reached and when you think you have reached the highest level, remember this, there is always somebody bigger,stronger and faster than you

 

[Drac]

Every system has its own specialties, strengths and weaknesses. A complete system is truly impossible. .

I just wanted to second this post - this is your answer.

I agree with Rook and tradrockrat..

 

[Cirdan]

The complete system is a myth. You can no more create a complete MA system than you could build a car that meets the requirements for every other veichle in existence.

Find something that suits your needs and take your time.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Even if there was a "complete system " it would be incredibly impractical to actually train in. In order for a skill to become of use, you have to practice it consistently and thoroughly. If a system were to cover every possible aspect and skill that would occur in combat or relating to combat, you'd only be able to skim over each area lightly, there's no way you could train them thoroughly.
Simple equation.
The more areas you have to cover = the less detail you can put into those areas.

 

[Drac]

The complete system is a myth.Find something that suits your needs and take your time.

Well said..

 

[exile]

Even if there was a "complete system " it would be incredibly impractical to actually train in. In order for a skill to become of use, you have to practice it consistently and thoroughly. If a system were to cover every possible aspect and skill that would occur in combat or relating to combat, you'd only be able to skim over each area lightly, there's no way you could train them thoroughly.
Simple equation.
The more areas you have to cover = the less detail you can put into those areas.

practice is fractal.

a single kata can be a complete system if you study it deeply enough. blocks become strikes become weapon techniques become ground tactics become footwork tutorials become points of enlightenment become understanding become better blocks...

Everyone so far has made excellent points. I think these two posts get at the heart of things quite quickly. Bushidomartialarts' point about seeing the world in a grain of sand—that a single kata can be a whole fighting system—is literally true; the original Okinawan founders of modern karate-based MAs would typically know only a few kata, but they would wring from those kata a huge variety of practical, effective techniques—emphasis on practical. There were no kata competition in those days; a kata was a handbook of combat scenarios, and it can take years to extract all the content from them. And those guys were known as very versatile fighters.

The flip side is just what Shotgun Buddha's point is: you can only train so much. Is it better to be able to perform twenty different kicks somewhat adequately or six different kicks with deep mastery? It's one or the other: there's only so much lifetime at your disposal, eh?

Listent to the people who've been telling you to identify your goals very specifically. That's the point: you don't need completeness, you need an art which is big on the resources required for the purposes you want to put it to, and which particularly appeals to you. There are a lot of great arts out there that for one reason or another won't give you that `Aha!' experience. Find one that does; that's the art for you.

 

[Matt_Bernius]

If complete means dealing with every form of combat, the answer is no.

That's because each martial art is geared for combat under specific environmental and cultural conditions. And while some MA are broader than others, there are far more combat conditions than there is time to train for (and infact, when we look across broad forms of combat, we'll find contradictory tactics).

Now as Andrew and others have suggested. Within a certain area of combat, yes, I do think it's possible to have a complete martial art.

- Matt

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

True enough. Thinking about it, any type of complete system would require a regulated or controlled environment, in other words a "closed system" where all factors have been pre-determined.
All martial arts exist within closed systems. Whether it is MMA, TMA, RBSD or the PTA gone gun crazy, all training is performed with the factors and influences limited in some way.
Reality is not a closed system, because while it may work by logical principles, we sure as hell aren't regulating it, or in charge of all the factors.
So the best we can hope to is observe what probable incidents will occur, prepare to deal with them, and then sod it all and go do what we enjoy doing instead of worrying so much.