Curious about the differences in judo\jjj and bjj.

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Gerry Seymour

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The other thing you will get is Japanese but not really Japanese jujitsu that is a sort of judo, jujitsu hybrid thing.

That the real jjj guys will thumb their noses at.

Which is ironic because the not really Japanese stuff can quite often turn out better quality martial artists.
I'm pretty sure that's the background of a visitor I had a couple of years ago. She was in town from Germany visiting a company for 6 weeks, and wanted to train, said she was training in Jujitsu (apparently, in Germany there's some standardization). She recognized most of our techniques (not by name), so it was clearly a JJJ foundation. But her groundwork looked very BJJ (by modern terms).
 

jobo

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One style, multiple competitions. If you are well rounded then you can play around with different rule sets.
well its very easy to say, less so to achieve, beibg " well rounded also requires a significant investment in time

if you try and do these at the same time, allowing that actial free time to spend has a reasonable limitation, your reducing the speed at which you can become proficient at any one of them or if you stack them your adding years before you can claim proficincy at all of them

if your looking for self defence skill in the short term, then pick a likely scenario and train for it, as soon as you start adding less likely scenarios, then the whole thing becomes impossibly complicated and very drawn out

and then becomes an obsesion bordering on paranoia, ma should be life affirming, not take over your life just in case your attacked by .......
 

drop bear

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well its very easy to say, less so to achieve, beibg " well rounded also requires a significant investment in time

if you try and do these at the same time, allowing that actial free time to spend has a reasonable limitation, your reducing the speed at which you can become proficient at any one of them or if you stack them your adding years before you can claim proficincy at all of them

if your looking for self defence skill in the short term, then pick a likely scenario and train for it, as soon as you start adding less likely scenarios, then the whole thing becomes impossibly complicated and very drawn out

and then becomes an obsesion bordering on paranoia, ma should be life affirming, not take over your life just in case your attacked by .......

Not really. If you can strike and you can grapple. It opens up pretty much every rule set that contains striking and grappling.

Which is most rule sets.

Mabye strike grapple and use weapons. You have even more options.

So for example you could do a sort of kind of jjj like tritac self defence.

Tritac Martial Arts

And you could enter boxing, kickboxing wrestling, bjj,mma tournaments depending on what you wanted to develop.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Not really. If you can strike and you can grapple. It opens up pretty much every rule set that contains striking and grappling.

Which is most rule sets.

Mabye strike grapple and use weapons. You have even more options.

So for example you could do a sort of kind of jjj like tritac self defence.

Tritac Martial Arts

And you could enter boxing, kickboxing wrestling, bjj,mma tournaments depending on what you wanted to develop.
I think Jobo's referring to actually being competitive. It's unlikely an average person has the spare time and inclination to excel in multiple formats. I agree they certainly could compete in multiple, and might even make a reasonable showing if their training is sound and the rules don't conflict too much (it seems it would take a lot of practice, for instance, to manage reactions and openings well in both kickboxing and NAGA competitions, even if you have the composite skills for both).
 

drop bear

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I think Jobo's referring to actually being competitive. It's unlikely an average person has the spare time and inclination to excel in multiple formats. I agree they certainly could compete in multiple, and might even make a reasonable showing if their training is sound and the rules don't conflict too much (it seems it would take a lot of practice, for instance, to manage reactions and openings well in both kickboxing and NAGA competitions, even if you have the composite skills for both).

If you don't have the spare time you won't be competitive in one discipline.

Robert Whitaker for example was going to represent Australia in wrestling. Made the team. Was easily good enough. But got pressure from the UFC and pulled out.

Australian Robert Whittaker pulls out of Commonwealth Games wrestling team for UFC 225
 
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Gerry Seymour

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If you don't have the spare time you won't be competitive in one discipline.

Robert Whitaker for example was going to represent Australia in wrestling. Made the team. Was easily good enough. But got pressure from the UFC and pulled out.

Australian Robert Whittaker pulls out of Commonwealth Games wrestling team for UFC 225

I don't see anything in that story about available time being an issue. It seems to boil down to one was paying him and the other was not. And he'd rather get paid.
 

Anarax

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So I'm looking to start training and to be honest I'm not overly fond of bjj and it's popularity. That's not to say anything about it's effectiveness at all but I'm just not all that interested really.

I trained in judo as a child and jjj as a teen at the Houston Budokan and would like to continue now...even though I'm a lot older (48).

I have to be honest though, as uninterested as I am in bjj I don't want to miss out on good technique either. As I remember it judo had a lot of ground work and it looks very similar to bjj in some ways. So I guess my question would be...is there really that much difference between the two and will I be missing things that would give a bjj practitioner the upper hand?

Thanks for any feedback.

BJJ came from Judo and focuses more on ground techniques. Judo on the other hand focuses more on the standing techniques, but still has plenty of ground work. Judo will focus more on throws, sweeps and takedowns than a typical BJJ school will. JJJ is similar to Judo but has small joint locks and other techniques as well as throws, sweeps and takedowns.
 

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Are you arguing it takes no more time to be competitive in two formats than in one?

Sort of but in a really complicated way.

But no.

I am arguing an average person doesn't have the time to excel in a single format. Which is why they are average.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Sort of but in a really complicated way.

But no.

I am arguing an average person doesn't have the time to excel in a single format. Which is why they are average.
I wasn’t talkin go about excelling. I’m talking about being competitive. Since the average competitor is about average for the competition (by definition), they can be competitive in that group. Split their focus, and they will be less competitive in two groups.
 

jobo

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Sort of but in a really complicated way.

But no.

I am arguing an average person doesn't have the time to excel in a single format. Which is why they are average.
average people cant excell by defintion , if they can its because they wernt average to begin with.
 

drop bear

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I wasn’t talkin go about excelling. I’m talking about being competitive. Since the average competitor is about average for the competition (by definition), they can be competitive in that group. Split their focus, and they will be less competitive in two groups.

Not really.
 

drop bear

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Splitting focus won't reduce their ability in each???

Not really. Because you are generally still doing developmental exercises. So if I was a kick boxer and boxed or even did running races. It would help my kickboxing in the long run.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Not really. Because you are generally still doing developmental exercises. So if I was a kick boxer and boxed or even did running races. It would help my kickboxing in the long run.
If you are adding,sure. But time is finite, so you’re training boxing in place of kick boxing at times. Less training for kickboxing is going to show. Unless you’re arguing that boxing drills are yay as good, so a person training boxing is actually preparing for kickboxing.
 

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Not really. Because you are generally still doing developmental exercises. So if I was a kick boxer and boxed or even did running races. It would help my kickboxing in the long run.
I think that really depends on your goals and the strengths and weaknesses of the various training programs. If you want to be a top competitor in kickboxing, training in boxing would only be more beneficial for your goals than simply spending that time on kickboxing if you assume at least one, probably both of two things; 1) the skills you'd learn from boxing are superior to or at least significantly expand on what you have been learning in kickboxing and can largely be applied within that rule set and 2) your training in boxing didn't cause you to develop bad habits in the context of the kickboxing rule set. Sprinting might be worthwhile if it was a superior exercise in comparison to whatever it is replacing but trying to prepare for ultra marathons will simply be bad for performance in pretty much any kind of combat sport and will take a lot of time to boot, so the type of race you're running matters.
 

Oni_Kadaki

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average people cant excell by defintion , if they can its because they wernt average to begin with.

I am curious about this... How do you define average? If you're referring to a random dude/dudette with an IQ of 100 and no particular natural talent, I would disagree... I think determination and dedication can be far more predictive of progress than initial talent.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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I am curious about this... How do you define average? If you're referring to a random dude/dudette with an IQ of 100 and no particular natural talent, I would disagree... I think determination and dedication can be far more predictive of progress than initial talent.
That would suggest that his determination and dedication are above average.
 
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