Curious about the differences in judo\jjj and bjj.

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drop bear

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If you are adding,sure. But time is finite, so you’re training boxing in place of kick boxing at times. Less training for kickboxing is going to show. Unless you’re arguing that boxing drills are yay as good, so a person training boxing is actually preparing for kickboxing.

At this point it gets complicated. There are developmental processes that don't just include the task you are doing.

Strength and conditioning for example doesn't really look like boxing and doesn't have to. But it makes your boxing better because it focuses on certain things that boxing doesn't.
 
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drop bear

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I am curious about this... How do you define average? If you're referring to a random dude/dudette with an IQ of 100 and no particular natural talent, I would disagree... I think determination and dedication can be far more predictive of progress than initial talent.

Yeah. So dedicating time to training would make an average person not average.
 

drop bear

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That would suggest that his determination and dedication are above average.

I am not convinced that these guys all just have amazing genetics or something. I have seen too many people just keep turning up until they got good.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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I am not convinced that these guys all just have amazing genetics or something. I have seen too many people just keep turning up until they got good.
And those guys are above average. Because they keep turning up, when most people leave when it starts to get tough. Whether they've got a better mindset, or this just happens to be the area that they're passionate about, by continuing to turn up it makes them better in martial arts.
 

drop bear

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And those guys are above average. Because they keep turning up, when most people leave when it starts to get tough. Whether they've got a better mindset, or this just happens to be the area that they're passionate about, by continuing to turn up it makes them better in martial arts.

Yeah. But it isn't like someone walks in with a mindset and so trains harder and so is a better fighter. They make a choice.

(And my issue is)

The next sentence is. This is why I am not a good fighter because I don't have the mind set to turn up, or whatever.

I think that is failure talk. And I don't feel it is accurate.
 

jobo

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I am curious about this... How do you define average? If you're referring to a random dude/dudette with an IQ of 100 and no particular natural talent, I would disagree... I think determination and dedication can be far more predictive of progress than initial talent.
what mtw said, , people with well a above average levels of determination and dedication are just as rare as people with well above average physical or intelectual skillls, coz it a bell curve and that how bell curves work

even with a good amount of dedication its a tall order to turn average into excelent, quite good is a more realistic exspectation
 

jobo

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Yeah. But it isn't like someone walks in with a mindset and so trains harder and so is a better fighter. They make a choice.

(And my issue is)

The next sentence is. This is why I am not a good fighter because I don't have the mind set to turn up, or whatever.

I think that is failure talk. And I don't feel it is accurate.
better doesnt equate to excellence does it ?
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Yeah. But it isn't like someone walks in with a mindset and so trains harder and so is a better fighter. They make a choice.

(And my issue is)

The next sentence is. This is why I am not a good fighter because I don't have the mind set to turn up, or whatever.

I think that is failure talk. And I don't feel it is accurate.
At the point that they make that choice and follow through with it, at that point, they're no longer average. It's not really a meaningful difference, but it is a difference.
 

jobo

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At the point that they make that choice and follow through with it, at that point, they're no longer average. It's not really a meaningful difference, but it is a difference.
it generaly isnt a choice, sure lot of people make a "choice" to commit to things, they just generally dont manage it and either give up or are just going through the motions quite quickly

if you have reached adulthood with out previously exhibiting obsessive behaviour required to reach excellence on will power alone, its highly unlikely that they can start now,

high achiever tend to be serial high achievers, because they apply that dedication to multiple things
 

Gerry Seymour

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I am curious about this... How do you define average? If you're referring to a random dude/dudette with an IQ of 100 and no particular natural talent, I would disagree... I think determination and dedication can be far more predictive of progress than initial talent.
I think his point was that when they excel, they cease to be average compared to the population they are excelling in. So, average as in “the average boxer”.
 

Gerry Seymour

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At this point it gets complicated. There are developmental processes that don't just include the task you are doing.

Strength and conditioning for example doesn't really look like boxing and doesn't have to. But it makes your boxing better because it focuses on certain things that boxing doesn't.
Yeah, and I’m pretty sure you know that’s not the point if those things are part of good kickboxing training, then they aren’t a replacement activity.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Yeah. So dedicating time to training would make an average person not average.
Yes. And that’s kinda the point. Getting a person to add more time to training (even in a tangential activity) is usually good. Getting them to do something else INSTEAD of their core training isn’t likely to benefit their core activity.
 

Gerry Seymour

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I am not convinced that these guys all just have amazing genetics or something. I have seen too many people just keep turning up until they got good.
That’s the determination and dedication he’s talking about. Often driven by things like personal priorities or just enjoyment.
 

drop bear

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Yeah, and I’m pretty sure you know that’s not the point if those things are part of good kickboxing training, then they aren’t a replacement activity.

Determining what is and isn't part of good training is complicated.
 

drop bear

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Just realized you said almost the exact same thing as me, but when I said it, it's failure talk.

It depends on the context. A lot of this discussion is that the average person does not have the time or the ability or the mental stuff to be excellent.

My view is they have the potential to develop those things. And so not be average.
 

jobo

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It depends on the context. A lot of this discussion is that the average person does not have the time or the ability or the mental stuff to be excellent.


My view is they have the potential to develop those things. And so not be average.

there is quite a difference from being slightly above average and having achieved excellence

excellence is just a little down from perfection, you spent some years at this ma thing, do you consider you have achieved excellence,
 
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