Court OKs barring people with high IQs from becoming cops

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
15,674
Reaction score
4,544
Location
Michigan
Ultimately, we also have to think about what we want our society to be like.

The concept of a meritocracy is that the most capable are the ones chosen; for anything. This leads to businesses, government agencies, and even voters choosing those they think most capable (and that standard can be anything, such as physical ability or education or rated intelligence or aptitude at certain skills, like languages).

The military, to a large extent, is a meritocracy. Although there are exceptions and failures, by and large, those most capable are recruited and promoted.

However, this leaves aside any notion of correcting issues that we as a society see as inherently unfair. The first efforts in this regard were to address historical injustices, mostly involving race.

However, it wasn't long before we expanded the definition of what a protected class was and should be, those who should not be subjected to the entire rigors of the merit system, which was assumed to be biased at this point. These were attempts to manually un-bias the system.

Now we have race, sex, gender identity, age, weight, and physical disability as protected classes to a greater or lesser extent; trumping merit in some cases (not all). However, the demands for fair treatment do not contract; they only expand. Are we to add the physically unattractive? Surely they do not get the same fair treatment as those who are more pleasant to look at. The smart? The dumb? Those who cannot read or write? Everyone laughs and says "That's a slippery slope, that will never happen" when I suggest such things, but year by year, we add to the list of people and groups who cannot be discriminated against by the evil sword of merit and the prejudices of employers.

There can be only one end-game to this. We reach the point where it will not be legal to turn down any applicant for any job. It will not matter; we'll have to hire blind people to drive buses if they want to, deaf people to be police dispatchers, overweight people in their 60's to be NFL players, and so on. It will all be utterly fair - and nothing will work.

As a very smart person, I'd hate to be discriminated against because I am otherwise-qualified for a job I wanted but 'too smart' for it. On the other hand, I'll get by. I can always play dumb; turnabout doesn't work.
 

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
16,008
Reaction score
1,617
Location
In Pain
Ultimately, we also have to think about what we want our society to be like.

The concept of a meritocracy is that the most capable are the ones chosen; for anything. This leads to businesses, government agencies, and even voters choosing those they think most capable (and that standard can be anything, such as physical ability or education or rated intelligence or aptitude at certain skills, like languages).

The military, to a large extent, is a meritocracy. Although there are exceptions and failures, by and large, those most capable are recruited and promoted.

However, this leaves aside any notion of correcting issues that we as a society see as inherently unfair. The first efforts in this regard were to address historical injustices, mostly involving race.

However, it wasn't long before we expanded the definition of what a protected class was and should be, those who should not be subjected to the entire rigors of the merit system, which was assumed to be biased at this point. These were attempts to manually un-bias the system.

Now we have race, sex, gender identity, age, weight, and physical disability as protected classes to a greater or lesser extent; trumping merit in some cases (not all). However, the demands for fair treatment do not contract; they only expand. Are we to add the physically unattractive? Surely they do not get the same fair treatment as those who are more pleasant to look at. The smart? The dumb? Those who cannot read or write? Everyone laughs and says "That's a slippery slope, that will never happen" when I suggest such things, but year by year, we add to the list of people and groups who cannot be discriminated against by the evil sword of merit and the prejudices of employers.

There can be only one end-game to this. We reach the point where it will not be legal to turn down any applicant for any job. It will not matter; we'll have to hire blind people to drive buses if they want to, deaf people to be police dispatchers, overweight people in their 60's to be NFL players, and so on. It will all be utterly fair - and nothing will work.

As a very smart person, I'd hate to be discriminated against because I am otherwise-qualified for a job I wanted but 'too smart' for it. On the other hand, I'll get by. I can always play dumb; turnabout doesn't work.



It's Barney's fault
 

punisher73

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
3,959
Reaction score
1,058
In Michigan, it is a requirement to become a certified LEO to have a college degree at least at the Associate Degree level. Most accomplish this while attending a 2 year college that has a law enforcement program. You take your general studies for about a year and then the second year is usually all law enforcement based. If you already possess a degree of any kind, then you have to complete the MCOLES core classes. This doe not include the initial testing to get into the MCOLES "Tracking Program", which includes a written test, a drug screen, complete background check/fingerprints/certified driving record, physical examination (vision/hearing). Nor does it inclue the physical test or post-written test.

That being said, I have heard of other people in many various positions being turned down for jobs because they were over qualified and the employer felt that they would get bored within a year or two and move on. This situation is not unique and is a judgement call by the employer and this story is an overblown headline of what was actually going on.
 

billc

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
9,183
Reaction score
85
Location
somewhere near Lake Michigan

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
16,008
Reaction score
1,617
Location
In Pain
That being said, I have heard of other people in many various positions being turned down for jobs because they were over qualified and the employer felt that they would get bored within a year or two and move on. This situation is not unique and is a judgement call by the employer and this story is an overblown headline of what was actually going on.

You probably can't get a crumby job at Walmart putting down college experience....or much past a HS diploma.
 

punisher73

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
3,959
Reaction score
1,058
You probably can't get a crumby job at Walmart putting down college experience....or much past a HS diploma.

that's probably true as well. The people I knew had master's degree's in something that wasn't necessarily in the same field and the job only called for a bachelor's and held a higher paying/responsibility position previously. The interviewer was concerned that they would get bored with the job since it wasn't challenging.
 

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
15,674
Reaction score
4,544
Location
Michigan
that's probably true as well. The people I knew had master's degree's in something that wasn't necessarily in the same field and the job only called for a bachelor's and held a higher paying/responsibility position previously. The interviewer was concerned that they would get bored with the job since it wasn't challenging.

I had a hard time landing a minimum-wage job as a security guard when I was between IT jobs in Wisconsin in the mid 1990's. I had my degree in computer science and hadn't worked in LE for a long time at that point. The HR manager said that from my ability to speak proper English and even my 'neat penmanship', she was convinced I would not stick around very long. I convinced her to hire me. Six weeks later, I found an IT job and I was gone. So there you go. Hey, at least I gave two week's notice. Which sucked; the pay barely paid for my gas to get to work.
 

punisher73

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
3,959
Reaction score
1,058
I had a hard time landing a minimum-wage job as a security guard when I was between IT jobs in Wisconsin in the mid 1990's. I had my degree in computer science and hadn't worked in LE for a long time at that point. The HR manager said that from my ability to speak proper English and even my 'neat penmanship', she was convinced I would not stick around very long. I convinced her to hire me. Six weeks later, I found an IT job and I was gone. So there you go. Hey, at least I gave two week's notice. Which sucked; the pay barely paid for my gas to get to work.

thanks for the example. That was exactly the type of thing I was trying to get at.
 

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,520
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Do not lower standards. Not for LEO's, Doctor's, Nurses, Fireman or for a system practicing and teaching a Martial Science. I personally believe we need to excel and have the cream rise to the top so to speak in any field.
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
541
Location
NH
I had a hard time landing a minimum-wage job as a security guard when I was between IT jobs in Wisconsin in the mid 1990's. I had my degree in computer science and hadn't worked in LE for a long time at that point. The HR manager said that from my ability to speak proper English and even my 'neat penmanship', she was convinced I would not stick around very long. I convinced her to hire me. Six weeks later, I found an IT job and I was gone. So there you go. Hey, at least I gave two week's notice. Which sucked; the pay barely paid for my gas to get to work.

But that was for a minimum wage job. Not a job that averages $150,000 per year, and can exceed $250,000 per year.

http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/3961
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/05/06/police_pay_can_exceed_250k/
 

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
16,008
Reaction score
1,617
Location
In Pain
But that was for a minimum wage job. Not a job that averages $150,000 per year, and can exceed $250,000 per year.

http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/3961
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/05/06/police_pay_can_exceed_250k/


True...
However, if you find yourself in the situation that you have bills to pay but no money to do so, even the minimum wage job will be very welcome.


I know I never got a call back from Walmart and my 'college' carrier was less than stellar. A friend of mine had similar problems...just, she needed the money to put food on the table.
 

Josh Oakley

Senior Master
Supporting Member
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
2,226
Reaction score
60
Location
Seattle, WA
125 isn't even that high. Also, from what I understand, there are a number of problems with IQ tests and reliability.
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
541
Location
NH
True...
However, if you find yourself in the situation that you have bills to pay but no money to do so, even the minimum wage job will be very welcome.


I know I never got a call back from Walmart and my 'college' carrier was less than stellar. A friend of mine had similar problems...just, she needed the money to put food on the table.

No doubt. Been in the same position myself when I was in need of a survival job.

There is definitely an element of control present. The test the gentleman took was called the Wonderlic test. Apparently the NFL -- also a hierarchical organization -- uses the same test for incoming players. There definitely appears to be a aspect of control, Wiki had this quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_Test

...scoring too high can be as much of a problem as scoring too low. Football coaches want to command the locker room. Being smarter than the individual players makes that easier. Having a guy in the locker room who may be smarter than every member of the coaching staff can be viewed as a problem — or at a minimum as a threat to the egos of the men who hope to be able when necessary to outsmart the players, especially when trying in some way to manipulate them.
 

Latest Discussions

Top