OP
Rough Rider
Green Belt
- Thread Starter
- #21
The problem with that is, if the wrong one is watching me, he'll tell me I'm wrong and make me change it.
Conflicting instruction
- Thread starter Rough Rider
- Start date
The problem with that is, if the wrong one is watching me, he'll tell me I'm wrong and make me change it.
I think it is obvious that this conflict is impinging on your trading and that it needs to be resolved. I would quietly approach both instructors individually, when there is no one else around, and ask them if they are aware that there is a difference in the way the technique is being taught. Also let them know that is affecting your training because you can't train consistently. Hopefully they can then sort it out between themselves.
OP
Rough Rider
Green Belt
- Thread Starter
- #23
I plan to have a polite discussion with them, but I haven't seen one of them for a few weeks. I don't know if we're there on different days, or if he's busy with his day job, or what.
I thought I should give a little context as to why I brought this up on the board. Since I'm new to MT, I've been reading through the old threads. I found a pretty interesting one from 2006 titled "Things That Drive You Crazy in the Dojo." In it, one of the posters included: Students who correct an instructor by saying " well sensei so and so showed me this way." That made me a little mad. I mean, if a student is being shown 2 different things, why shouldn't he bring it up?
Rather than reply to that and bump a 9-year-old thread (that's something that drives me crazy on message boards), I started this one. Now, reading it again, I realize I may have missed some context. I was focusing on the second part of the statement and glossed over the first part (Students who correct an instructor...) Perhaps this poster was venting not about the student bringing the situation up, but how he did it.
Thank you all for your advice. I will proceed humbly and respectfully.
I thought I should give a little context as to why I brought this up on the board. Since I'm new to MT, I've been reading through the old threads. I found a pretty interesting one from 2006 titled "Things That Drive You Crazy in the Dojo." In it, one of the posters included: Students who correct an instructor by saying " well sensei so and so showed me this way." That made me a little mad. I mean, if a student is being shown 2 different things, why shouldn't he bring it up?
Rather than reply to that and bump a 9-year-old thread (that's something that drives me crazy on message boards), I started this one. Now, reading it again, I realize I may have missed some context. I was focusing on the second part of the statement and glossed over the first part (Students who correct an instructor...) Perhaps this poster was venting not about the student bringing the situation up, but how he did it.
Thank you all for your advice. I will proceed humbly and respectfully.
Sounds like you've got the tight approach. After you talk with your instructors, please post back and let us know how it turns out.
There is a difference between looking to resolve conflicts between what two instructors have shown and correcting one of them. Asking to clarify or clear up the conflict is very different from accusing one of being wrong for tracking differently...
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Ah come on folks you know there is nothing an instructor loves more than being told he is teaching something wrong by a student. 
As many have said have a talk with the instructors
As many have said have a talk with the instructors
There's a difference between "But So&So taught it this way!" and "I'm confused. The other day, So&So said to do this... now you're telling me something completely different."Ah come on folks you know there is nothing an instructor loves more than being told he is teaching something wrong by a student.
As many have said have a talk with the instructors
1) as stated discuss with respect with the instructors that you are confused and unable to practice well and consistently with two sets of requirements.
2) In a system, I teach the GM told me early on learn all the variations for one never knows when they might be needed. That being said, we decided to pick one variation and keep that one as our way to demo the form for a test so everyone moved the same way.
3) I had a friend who was going to test for ITF 4th Dan in the 80's and he knew he would not pass. Why? One of the master's on the board insisted that a roundhouse or turning kick was linear. Another one insisted it circular. If you were lucky, and only one could make your scheduled test then one could pass, and would be considered in that person's camp. (* Ah politics - GRR! *)
I saw my friends struggle and I explained to him that using physics and depending upon the frame of reference it could be seen as linear or circular.
We worked on what he was to say, and how to say and he memorized it.
During the test a couple of hours in he was asked this and other questions. He stated, It depends upon the frame of reference.
One Master asked, what do you mean, in an angry tone, while the other said, YES what do you mean, as well and just as angry. The senior to the local org and senior to these two in question, just smiled and said, he answered the question now move on. So all the explanation and demo and point of view and frame of reference was not needed.
Unfortunately one would not let it drop. So the Senior in public told them both that this argument had to stop and if he ever heard it again, he would demote both of them yellow belt. Calm and clear toned in voice, and loud enough for all to hear if they tried. Of course the place had gone quiet.
So neither Master was happy with my friend. The Senior was though. He did not teach nor train much more in that art after that though. I am not sure if it was because of the two being upset with him, or life in general.
This is why everyone has stated to talk to them in private.
Good Luck
2) In a system, I teach the GM told me early on learn all the variations for one never knows when they might be needed. That being said, we decided to pick one variation and keep that one as our way to demo the form for a test so everyone moved the same way.
3) I had a friend who was going to test for ITF 4th Dan in the 80's and he knew he would not pass. Why? One of the master's on the board insisted that a roundhouse or turning kick was linear. Another one insisted it circular. If you were lucky, and only one could make your scheduled test then one could pass, and would be considered in that person's camp. (* Ah politics - GRR! *)
I saw my friends struggle and I explained to him that using physics and depending upon the frame of reference it could be seen as linear or circular.
We worked on what he was to say, and how to say and he memorized it.
During the test a couple of hours in he was asked this and other questions. He stated, It depends upon the frame of reference.
One Master asked, what do you mean, in an angry tone, while the other said, YES what do you mean, as well and just as angry. The senior to the local org and senior to these two in question, just smiled and said, he answered the question now move on. So all the explanation and demo and point of view and frame of reference was not needed.
Unfortunately one would not let it drop. So the Senior in public told them both that this argument had to stop and if he ever heard it again, he would demote both of them yellow belt. Calm and clear toned in voice, and loud enough for all to hear if they tried. Of course the place had gone quiet.
So neither Master was happy with my friend. The Senior was though. He did not teach nor train much more in that art after that though. I am not sure if it was because of the two being upset with him, or life in general.
This is why everyone has stated to talk to them in private.
Good Luck
ShotoNoob
Master Black Belt
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I have disagreements with instructors often. That's is because I am looking at the underlying principles, the objectives of the training. Although instructors sometimes disagree over the rules, I almost never see this as a problem for me. Because of my preceding sentence.
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The instructor sets the rules. The art sets the principles. That's how I see it.
I've been there many time with poomse and kicking technique. Do as according to the person teaching you . That person may notice something the other instructor isn't noticing such as foot placement. One teacher isn't better than the other instead one focuses on something different....however the master instructor is usually correct. Check with the senior master; the one who owns the dojang.
I check against the latest KKW resources. In my experience when there is conflicting instruction, especially relating to poomsae, it is generally because one instructor or the other is out of date with their information. In the age of electronic media and Internet, there is no reason why this type of conflict cannot be resolved if the club uses the Kukkiwon standard.
For further clarification, one can look to WTF competition resources.
I'd have no worries about asking an instructor privately why he or she does things differently to the standard - but only with the indirect goal of highlighting it. It then up to them if they want to change.
Typical points where this happens are not with end positions but transitions. For example which hand goes outside during the chamber for a hecheo makgi? The side with leg that is forward, or the side with the leg that moved last? Difficult questions to find answers to unless you regularly attend seminars with subject matter experts. But, in the world of hobby Taekwondo, also not questions that interfere with the principle of the movement.
For further clarification, one can look to WTF competition resources.
I'd have no worries about asking an instructor privately why he or she does things differently to the standard - but only with the indirect goal of highlighting it. It then up to them if they want to change.
Typical points where this happens are not with end positions but transitions. For example which hand goes outside during the chamber for a hecheo makgi? The side with leg that is forward, or the side with the leg that moved last? Difficult questions to find answers to unless you regularly attend seminars with subject matter experts. But, in the world of hobby Taekwondo, also not questions that interfere with the principle of the movement.
Hyoho
2nd Black Belt
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If your dojo entered national championships that would never work. Only one boss. the rest assist. When in competition the blink of an eye from a trainer can decide the winner.
