CMA Grappling

[7starmantis]

Like most chinese masters my sifu does not see the idea of being taken down by anyone!!

I'm confused by this post, would you clearify it a bit for me? Your master doesn't think he can be taken down by anyone? Your master doesn't think its valid to take someone down? I'm sorry, I'm just a bit confused.

My sifu has fought against many ppl and many styles ,he sought out my sigung for the sole purpose to fight. Not every sifu or master has learned that way or was interested in learning for that purpose.

Thats true, there are many "sifus" out there who dont have good training, or experience. However, that doesn't negate the need to have at the very least experience in getting taken down, be it by a sweep, throw, or "tackle type" takedown. The ability to fall correctly, and stil be in your game after hitting the ground is something that must be experienced. Its just like a fighter who only trains forms then thinks they can not be defeated.

7sm

 

[rox]

But you won't fight on a tatame, I don't think that those fall techniques would work 100% on the street.

And also, if you are in the ground and the opponent is standing up, you're in serious trouble!

 

[7starmantis]

But you won't fight on a tatame, I don't think that those fall techniques would work 100% on the street.

And also, if you are in the ground and the opponent is standing up, you're in serious trouble!

I'm not sure I understand what your saying. tatame? Fall techniques most certainly would work on the street, thats the whole reason to learn them, so you dont hurt yourself if you fall. If you dont know how to fall, your going to get hurt and most likely hurt bad, when you do fall on a hard surface. My school is concrete covered with tile, if we didn't know how to fall, we would be in bad shape. Its just not possible to say you will never get thrown or swept or takendown, especially in CMA. Thats like saying you wont get hit.

Also, in my opinion, if I'm on the ground and in a ready position and my attacker is standing up, I'm in a good posiiton, he has to extend to get to me, opening himself up. Then again, mantis uses very different strategies than alot of styles. If I'm on the ground and hurt or dazed, or just not ready, your right, but if I know how to fall and protect myself, then I can be ready on the ground.

7sm

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

I'm confused by this post, would you clearify it a bit for me? Your master doesn't think he can be taken down by anyone? Your master doesn't think its valid to take someone down? I'm sorry, I'm just a bit confused.

7sm

My sifu doesn't feel he can be taken down by anyone!

He feels that unless he wants to be taken down ,noone will be able to take him down. That is a mindset that alot of old school chinese masters share. His reply to going to the ground is ,"why would i let someone take me down"?

Although he feels that way,he still will work with us on the ground.

Don't get me wrong he knows what to do when he's on the ground , he just doesn't think anyone can take him down.

Thats true, there are many "sifus" out there who dont have good training, or experience. However, that doesn't negate the need to have at the very least experience in getting taken down, be it by a sweep, throw, or "tackle type" takedown. The ability to fall correctly, and stil be in your game after hitting the ground is something that must be experienced. Its just like a fighter who only trains forms then thinks they can not be defeated.

7sm

I think you misunderstood that part of my post.

I was saying that not all sifu/pupils train in kung fu for the need to fight. People train in kung fu for many different reasons ,my sifu only trained for fighting ,that was his only reason for learning kung fu.


jeff

 

[7starmantis]

My sifu doesn't feel he can be taken down by anyone!

He feels that unless he wants to be taken down ,noone will be able to take him down. That is a mindset that alot of old school chinese masters share. His reply to going to the ground is ,"why would i let someone take me down"?

Thats a pretty bold statement to make, especially practicing CMA with all its sweeps, throws, locks, chin na, takedowns, and unbalancing techniques. I dont know any old school "masters" who share that mindset or mentality. Its not a case of letting someone take you to the ground, but unless you are the best there is someone who is better than you and in that case could get a throw or sweep or something on you. I know alot of people when talking about getting taken to the ground are refering to a BJJ type takedown with the attacker on top of you and lifting you off your feet type of deal, but I'm talking about sweeps, throws, and etc.

Although he feels that way,he still will work with us on the ground.

Don't get me wrong he knows what to do when he's on the ground , he just doesn't think anyone can take him down.

Thats good, because sooner or later, someone will get a technique that will make you fall and then you really need to know what to do.

I think you misunderstood that part of my post.

I was saying that not all sifu/pupils train in kung fu for the need to fight. People train in kung fu for many different reasons ,my sifu only trained for fighting ,that was his only reason for learning kung fu.


jeff

No, I didn't misunderstand it, I just dont think someone who forgoes training to fight is really getting good training, or true kung fu training and really shouldn't be teaching in my opinion.

7sm

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

Thats a pretty bold statement to make, especially practicing CMA with all its sweeps, throws, locks, chin na, takedowns, and unbalancing techniques. I dont know any old school "masters" who share that mindset or mentality. Its not a case of letting someone take you to the ground, but unless you are the best there is someone who is better than you and in that case could get a throw or sweep or something on you. I know alot of people when talking about getting taken to the ground are refering to a BJJ type takedown with the attacker on top of you and lifting you off your feet type of deal, but I'm talking about sweeps, throws, and etc.
7sm

Well,

I think if you spend time with any old school chinese sifu and talk with them about being taken down ,you'll see exactly what i mean. This is not olny a mindset shared by my sifu.

Yes you have all those things sweeps,throws,etc we use many of them in Black Tiger ,It still doesn't change what he thinks. Many old school sifu will tell you because of their rooting,balance,knowledge,etc that they can't be takendown. And until someone does ,who's to say their thinking is wrong?

Thats good, because sooner or later, someone will get a technique that will make you fall and then you really need to know what to do.
7sm

I agree with that ,but that still doesn't change his mindset. He feels that if he was to somehow go down it would only be for a second.

No, I didn't misunderstand it, I just dont think someone who forgoes training to fight is really getting good training, or true kung fu training and really shouldn't be teaching in my opinion.

7sm

Well, who said he did not train?

My sifu was the top disciple of Grandmaster Wong Cheung ,he trained three times a day one on one with Sigung for hrs at a time. At 25 yrs old he was made the Chairman of the Black Tiger Assocation in Hong Kong by Grandmaster Wong Cheung. He was chosen by Wong Cheung to succeed him as the styles heir.

Not to mention that in the many yrs he trained with sigung ,he only lost one fight to a senior when he was only 16yrs old. Not only did he never lose another ,but he was the schools Dai Sihing ,eventhough he was one of the youngest students Wong Cheung had.

So, i ask who is better qualified to teach or pass on a style than someone hand picked by the Master himself?

After all ,it is Martial Arts right.......

My sifu went with the fighting mindset ,but learned there is alot more to kung fu than fighting. At the sametime ,if you're learning kung fu ,you need to know how to defend yourself.

So that's how he teaches

Some may not agree ,but when does everyone ever agree?!?!?!

jeff

 

[7starmantis]

Well,

I think if you spend time with any old school chinese sifu and talk with them about being taken down ,you'll see exactly what i mean. This is not olny a mindset shared by my sifu.

Yes you have all those things sweeps,throws,etc we use many of them in Black Tiger ,It still doesn't change what he thinks. Many old school sifu will tell you because of their rooting,balance,knowledge,etc that they can't be takendown. And until someone does ,who's to say their thinking is wrong?

Thats what I'm saying, all the time I have spent with many chinese sifu, none have had that type of mindset. Most are very humble about their skill and even say that they have been beaten before by at least someone, their sihings, teachers, someone. I didn't say your sifu was wrong, I just think absolutes are hard to defend or prove.

I agree with that ,but that still doesn't change his mindset. He feels that if he was to somehow go down it would only be for a second.

Wait, he can't be taken down, or he would only be down for a second? Those statements contradict each other.

Well, who said he did not train?

My sifu was the top disciple of Grandmaster Wong Cheung ,he trained three times a day one on one with Sigung for hrs at a time. At 25 yrs old he was made the Chairman of the Black Tiger Assocation in Hong Kong by Grandmaster Wong Cheung. He was chosen by Wong Cheung to succeed him as the styles heir.

Not to mention that in the many yrs he trained with sigung ,he only lost one fight to a senior when he was only 16yrs old. Not only did he never lose another ,but he was the schools Dai Sihing ,eventhough he was one of the youngest students Wong Cheung had.

So, i ask who is better qualified to teach or pass on a style than someone hand picked by the Master himself?

After all ,it is Martial Arts right.......

My sifu went with the fighting mindset ,but learned there is alot more to kung fu than fighting. At the sametime ,if you're learning kung fu ,you need to know how to defend yourself.

So that's how he teaches

Some may not agree ,but when does everyone ever agree?!?!?!

jeff

Whoa there, calm down. No one said anything about your sifu not training. You completely misread my post. You have read my last post as an attack on you or your sifu, thats not so. I was agreeing with you actually about those who train without fighting. I dont know your sifu (or you) and I'm in no way trying to cut either of you down, my last post was agreeing with you about people training for different reasons, and my opinions on that training. A little touchy are we?

7sm

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

Thats what I'm saying, all the time I have spent with many chinese sifu, none have had that type of mindset. Most are very humble about their skill and even say that they have been beaten before by at least someone, their sihings, teachers, someone. I didn't say your sifu was wrong, I just think absolutes are hard to defend or prove.
7sm

Well, Like you ,i've spent time with chinese sifu ,and the ones i've talked to don't feel that they can be taken down. But i guess if you talk to a hundred ppl you'll get atleast as many different opinions......

Wait, he can't be taken down, or he would only be down for a second? Those statements contradict each other.
7sm

Yes they do ,and i knew that when i typed it

He doesn't feel that he can be taken down against his will ,but if for some wild chance he did end up on the ground? It would only be for a second.

Whoa there, calm down. No one said anything about your sifu not training. You completely misread my post. You have read my last post as an attack on you or your sifu, thats not so. I was agreeing with you actually about those who train without fighting. I dont know your sifu (or you) and I'm in no way trying to cut either of you down, my last post was agreeing with you about people training for different reasons, and my opinions on that training. A little touchy are we?

7sm

You are correct here and i want to say "I'M Sorry"

I misunderstood your post and got defensive about my sifu. My sifu and i share a very close bond ,so i can be a little defensive about him.

jeff

 

[7starmantis]

You are correct here and i want to say "I'M Sorry"

I misunderstood your post and got defensive about my sifu. My sifu and i share a very close bond ,so i can be a little defensive about him.

jeff

Hey no problem, I'm glad we cleared that up, I can understand that bond, so its cool. This is the kind of posting I like to see here!!

7sm

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

Yeah once again sorry bro!


My sifu has basicly accepted me into his family ,so he's a father to me in a every sense of the word. It's funny because this is coming from a person who thought for the first 1 1/2 - 2 yrs that his sifu didn't like him

He was very tough on me for the first 2 yrs he never smiled or joked with me at all ,he even rarely talked to me. You have to understand this was one on one training , i could understand in a school setting ,but i know why he did it now.

jeff

 

[CMack11]

7star, I have a question for you--do you work on the ground game at your school? We haven't started on any of that yet, and I was wondering if you do a good amount of it later on, or if you are going somewhere else.

 

[7starmantis]

7star, I have a question for you--do you work on the ground game at your school? We haven't started on any of that yet, and I was wondering if you do a good amount of it later on, or if you are going somewhere else.

Yeah, I work on it here with my sifu. He is only now begining to really teach us alot of ground stuff, and he is only teaching a few of the more advanced (jow ga) students. Its tough, there is alot of tam tui's and sweeps, hoping from leg to leg while down in tam tui and such. Then it gets into ground chin na, breaks, traps, pressure points, locks, etc. We include ground work to be low sweeps, takedowns, anything done from on the ground while the opponent is still standing up as well. There is alot to it, and its really hard training, but I'm sure you guys will get to it. Remind me, your training under Sifu Hughes, correct?

7sm

 

[CMack11]

That's right. I just took ~3 weeks off to get married, but I'm starting back next week. I'm ready to move out of the beginner class--shouldn't be too long now.

 

[7starmantis]

Oh, well, conradulations then!!

7sm

 

[brothershaw]

Do to ufc and bjj being so popular even people with no ground training may try to do what they see in ufc or whatever. It cant hurt to have a general idea of what can be done to you on the ground , cause you might wind up there. Although I have no intention of going to the grund intentionally, I have an interest in it from a defensive standpoint.

 

[CMack11]

Oh, well, conradulations then!!

7sm

Thanks!

And ask and you shall receive. I just found out we have a groundfighting seminar next weekend.

 

[7starmantis]

Thanks!

And ask and you shall receive. I just found out we have a groundfighting seminar next weekend.

Awesome, your sifu doing it or someone else?

7sm

 

[CMack11]

No, it's somebody else. I wish I could remember his name, but I can't. I'll find out when I go in tomorrow and let you know.

 

[CMack11]

It's a sifu McDaniels. I don't think I've met him before.

 

[7starmantis]

Oh yeah, I know Anthony. Dont know him all that well, but he seems nice enough. Hope it all goes well.

7sm