Traditional Grappling Skills

DanT

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
702
Reaction score
289
Location
Planet X
IMG_1847.JPG
IMG_1848.JPG
IMG_1849.JPG
IMG_1850.JPG
Based on my experience, only a few styles of Kung Fu have a dedicated Traditional Grappling curriculum. I have found that Shaolin and White Crane both have extensive ground fighting techniques (not just "anti-grappling" stuff). Although it's complexity isn't near where BJJ is at, it seems to resemble Judo in the sense that it exists but is typically a side portion of the curriculum. What styles in your experience cover the following aspects of ground fighting:

-Take down defence / offence
-Ground offensive striking
-Rolling, getting up safely
-Submissions
-Submissions defence and counters
-Escapes from mount (etc)

And I'm talking about legitimate traditional ground fighting skills, not ones that were added into the curriculum later, and not ones that are bogus.
 

Kababayan

Blue Belt
Joined
May 7, 2017
Messages
215
Reaction score
86
Krav Maga isn't known as a grappling art, but they do a great job of teaching the gap in between standing up and being on the ground. Meaning, how to protect oneself while initially being knocked to the ground, and how to protect oneself while safely getting back up.
 
OP
DanT

DanT

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
702
Reaction score
289
Location
Planet X
Krav Maga isn't known as a grappling art, but they do a great job of teaching the gap in between standing up and being on the ground. Meaning, how to protect oneself while initially being knocked to the ground, and how to protect oneself while safely getting back up.
I would assume then the Grappling skills in Shaolin and White Crane and Krav Maga are similar in that they emphasize escape and getting back to your feet.
 

VPT

Green Belt
Joined
May 11, 2017
Messages
156
Reaction score
45
Based on my experience, only a few styles of Kung Fu have a dedicated Traditional Grappling curriculum. I have found that Shaolin and White Crane both have extensive ground fighting techniques (not just "anti-grappling" stuff).
Are you talking of Shaolin as in Shaolinquan from the Henan temple?
 

Tony Dismukes

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
7,577
Reaction score
7,611
Location
Lexington, KY
View attachment 21307 View attachment 21308 View attachment 21309 View attachment 21310 Based on my experience, only a few styles of Kung Fu have a dedicated Traditional Grappling curriculum. I have found that Shaolin and White Crane both have extensive ground fighting techniques (not just "anti-grappling" stuff). Although it's complexity isn't near where BJJ is at, it seems to resemble Judo in the sense that it exists but is typically a side portion of the curriculum. What styles in your experience cover the following aspects of ground fighting:

-Take down defence / offence
-Ground offensive striking
-Rolling, getting up safely
-Submissions
-Submissions defence and counters
-Escapes from mount (etc)

And I'm talking about legitimate traditional ground fighting skills, not ones that were added into the curriculum later, and not ones that are bogus.
What's the source for those photos?
 

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
15,230
Reaction score
4,920
Location
San Francisco
And I'm talking about legitimate traditional ground fighting skills, not ones that were added into the curriculum later, and not ones that are bogus.
How do you define these points? What is “legitimate traditional” vs not “legitimate traditional”?

What is bogus or not bogus?

No style sprang forth fully formed from a vacuum. Things do change over the generations. So it is possible that grappling was added later. Where do you draw the line? 50, 100, 200 years ago? 50, 100, 200 years after the system was founded or acknowledged by outside sources?

I think the lines get very blurry, depending on perspective.
 
OP
DanT

DanT

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
702
Reaction score
289
Location
Planet X
How do you define these points? What is “legitimate traditional” vs not “legitimate traditional”?

What is bogus or not bogus?

No style sprang forth fully formed from a vacuum. Things do change over the generations. So it is possible that grappling was added later. Where do you draw the line? 50, 100, 200 years ago? 50, 100, 200 years after the system was founded or acknowledged by outside sources?

I think the lines get very blurry, depending on perspective.
I agree with you. What I mean when I'm referring to traditional is techniques that were part of the system before the fad of adding ground fighting came in (due to UFC / BJJ, etc.). By Bogus I refer to techniques or advice that is created by someone with no experience in grappling (anti-Grappling for example).
 

Steve

Mostly Harmless
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
21,920
Reaction score
7,475
Location
Covington, WA
I agree with you. What I mean when I'm referring to traditional is techniques that were part of the system before the fad of adding ground fighting came in (due to UFC / BJJ, etc.). By Bogus I refer to techniques or advice that is created by someone with no experience in grappling (anti-Grappling for example).
That's about the most concise description of legitimate and bogus as I've heard.
 

Anarax

Master Black Belt
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
1,022
Reaction score
377
Location
New Mexico
Wait Wait Wait!!! You're telling me BJJ wasn't the first and only grappling style? I'm confused
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,960
Reaction score
5,849
I would assume then the Grappling skills in Shaolin and White Crane and Krav Maga are similar in that they emphasize escape and getting back to your feet.
All Chinese Martial Arts reflect this same perspective. Being on the ground is not where you want to be in a real fight. Sports fighting is one thing, but in a real fight it could be very dangerous, especially in the event where there could be more than one attacker.

This is why they say being on the ground is bad.

The concept is fairly simple. It's better maintain your mobility. Being in the U.S. I think this is even more important with guns being everywhere. You don't want to be in a fight on the ground when your attacker's friend or family pulls out a gun. By being on the ground, you have just given up your ability to flee. The Gracies have even said as much. Can you win on the ground in the street fight? Of course. We have seen it many times. But at what risk are you taking to win?

Here you can see that people willingly go to the ground and pay for it. Like everything in martial arts there is a time an place to do a technique.
 
OP
DanT

DanT

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
702
Reaction score
289
Location
Planet X

This particular video does a good job of demonstrating Shaolin Groundfighting skills. It shows how the emphasis is on position recovery / reversals and getting back to your feet.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,960
Reaction score
5,849

This particular video does a good job of demonstrating Shaolin Groundfighting skills. It shows how the emphasis is on position recovery / reversals and getting back to your feet.
He's one of the few martial artists that I enjoy listening to and watching. He's very practical with what he shows.
 

Latest Discussions

Top