Enough with the CMA bashing already

[Xue Sheng]

Enough with the CMA bashing already

I have looked at and occasionally posted in areas outside of the CMA section and I even post there from time to time, since my original style was from Japan and my second was from Korea. I have not seen anyone posting in those sections and bashing or challenging those styles based on tradition or forms study. I have seen the oft reference to kata in a argument about CMA, but there are no katas in CMA, that is a Japanese term. It is possible I could have missed it in those other section though.

However I have seen that very thing in the CMA section fairly often. I personally believe all the martial arts represented on MT are good arts to train whether that is CMA, JMA, FMA, MMA, KMA etc.

To me some of the comments against on CMA show a complete lack of understanding of CMA beyond the minimal experience or it is based on the fact there are a lot of forms in some CMA styles the person once saw or heard about. There are a lot of CMA styles that range from Internal to External, Shaolin to Wing Chun, Xingyi, bagua, Tai Chi, White Crane, Tiger, Dragon, Hung ga, Sanda/Sanshou, Shuai jiao, you can study Qin na, grappling, kicking and punching, weapons, etc.

Here is a list here it just name a few
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-chinese-martial-arts?method=22

One question I have seen several times is if CMA is so good why don’t they fight in this match or that match. The reason is the same as to why a Boxer fights in a boxing match. The majority of CMA people that fight in competition fight in Sanshou matches. If you know anything about Sanshou fighting you probably know about Kung Lee. He is a Sanshou fighter and that too is classified as CMA. And from the matches I have watched he is a very good fighter.

There are international Sanshou matches and people trained in various CMA styles from all over the world fight in them. There are those that are trained specifically in Sanshou or Sanda but not all that fight in these matches are trained the same The most recent Sanshou match in Vietnam the men’s bronze medalist was a Tai Chi person from NYC and the Woman’s Silver was his sister also from NYC also trained in Tai Chi.

There are many Sanshou matches fought in China and they are considerably tough fights as well. The Police and Military are trained in Sanshou as well. The Police apparently rather like to compete in Sanshou competitions

This is why many CMA fighters do not fight in AAU, MMA or whatever other competition you name. Most CMA people that do compete fight in Sanshou.

I would type more but there is a thunderstorm rolling in and I got to go.
Responses would be appreciated.

 

[Jade Tigress]

However I have seen that very thing in the CMA section fairly often. I personally believe all the martial arts represented on MT are good arts to train whether that is CMA, JMA, FMA, MMA, KMA etc.

I agree. There is no need for art bashing. We all choose to train where our passions are. That doesn't make one better than another. Every art has it's pros and cons. It's personal preference as to what needs the art we choose meets for us.

 

[HKphooey]

People may want to do some research on different martial arts before they can comment either way. IMO, Reviewing one individual or video clip does not constitute research. Take the time to workout with someone from that style and they will be happy to point out the pros and cons.

We all have something to learn from other styles.

 

[MJS]

People may want to do some research on different martial arts before they can comment either way. IMO, Reviewing one individual or video clip does not constitute research. Take the time to workout with someone from that style and they will be happy to point out the pros and cons.

We all have something to learn from other styles.

Agreed, but thats the problem though. People don't take the time to seek out a qualified teacher to show them how things work. They either do as you said, watch a video clip and base an opinion off of that, or play around with some moves with another unskilled person, have no success with the moves, and assume that they're (the moves) ineffective. A good example of this would be the pocket stick thread in the general section.

Mike

 

[Wing Chun Dummy]

"To hold and fill to overflowing is not as good as to stop in time. Sharpen a knife-edge to its very sharpest, and the edge will not last long." – Loa Tzu
(in sig)

That's a quote I use a lot. In my book it's translated as:
Hold it and fill it: not as good as stopping in time..

Anyway I think it's a very good point about the use of researching/experimenting with lots of schools/styles before settling and thinking one style is the ultimate.

 

[AceHBK]

Couldnt agree more. The thread about are CMA's 99% crap went into detail about such things as trying to find qualified teachers and why there is this myth.

People are fickle and will change with the seasons. Right now MMA is what people want b/c it is quick to learn. They have no understanding of other arts so instead of doing research they bash. It is alot easier to put someone/something down than it is to take the time to understand and figure out why.

Great post. Funny how CMA's were greatly admired but now they are bashed constantly.

I have learned to just ignore it and move on. No sense in arguing with a fool. They get a clip of someone getting beat up who does CMA and see it as proof of how ineffective it is. Then when u show them a clip of their art being "taken" by CMA or another art they are quick to say, "well he wasnt good, I know tons more who was better than him." Heck even us CMA's say that. It is a vicious cycle that will never end.
Don't let it get to you and don't argue with a fool, people from a distance cant tell who is who.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Couldnt agree more. The thread about are CMA's 99% crap went into detail about such things as trying to find qualified teachers and why there is this myth.

People are fickle and will change with the seasons. Right now MMA is what people want b/c it is quick to learn. They have no understanding of other arts so instead of doing research they bash. It is alot easier to put someone/something down than it is to take the time to understand and figure out why.

Great post. Funny how CMA's were greatly admired but now they are bashed constantly.

I have learned to just ignore it and move on. No sense in arguing with a fool. They get a clip of someone getting beat up who does CMA and see it as proof of how ineffective it is. Then when u show them a clip of their art being "taken" by CMA or another art they are quick to say, "well he wasnt good, I know tons more who was better than him." Heck even us CMA's say that. It is a vicious cycle that will never end.
Don't let it get to you and don't argue with a fool, people from a distance cant tell who is who.

Very good points.

 

[Andrew Green]

CMA are fine, lots of depth there. BUT, for as many people seriously studying it there seem to be a dozen that watch Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee movies completely misrepresenting it and making fools of themselves. Which of course leads to many jokes about the silly Kung fu people.

Ninjitsu practitioners are also on this list of targets for the same reason. Bunch of goofy Ninja movies came out, publics view of it and reality got rather seperated and there where a bunch of wannabe ninja's running around with cheap swords and black Pyjama's.

Now, Kung Fu movies have had a little revival, and even Charlies Angels are doing it, so despite the small, dedicated community of practitioners, there is a larger community of idiots jumping around making fools of themselves and calling it "Kung Fu"

Such is the way of things, something gets good, then it gets big, and then stupid people go out of their way to ruin it. MMA is no different, there are plenty of clips floating around of idiots trying to imitate what they saw on "The Ultimate Fighter" making themselves look bad, as well as the sport.

Oh well, not much that can really be done...

 

[Beowulf]

My girlfriend just started training in CMA. I began checking out current opinions on the effectiveness of CMA's as self defense from MMA guys.

And yes, you guessed it, they were all about CMA bashing. This sent a chill down my spine as I thought about how she was learning this for self-defense, and what if it is as useless as they are telling me.

She is Chinese, and is very proud of CMA's being in her heritage. I couldn't find it in my heart to tell her what they were saying. But the more I looked into it and found a more balanced view, I'm beginning to agree that it IS an effective MA. The MMA guys only had tap-outs on their minds. Thank you for this thread.

 

[Andrew Green]

My girlfriend just started training in CMA. I began checking out current opinions on the effectiveness of CMA's as self defense from MMA guys.

Bring up Sanshou and you'll get better results

 

[Flying Crane]

Like any art, when done well CMA are tremendously effective.

Like any art, when done poorly, CMA are worthless.

Like any art, there are fewer good teachers and more poor teachers, and fewer good practitioners and more good practitioners.

This is true of every single martial art in existence.

 

[pstarr]

Flying Crane, you hit the nail on the head! :asian:

 

[mantis]

Like any art, when done well CMA are tremendously effective.

Like any art, when done poorly, CMA are worthless.

Like any art, there are fewer good teachers and more poor teachers, and fewer good practitioners and more good practitioners.

This is true of every single martial art in existence.

agreed. But CMA's are also associated with a culture and civilization extending to thousands of years. You cannot just summarize that culture with only the fighting skills aspects of CMA's. There is a historical, ethical, and cultural extent to chinese martial arts that grants CMA's a dimension not found in other newly invented arts (like WWF wrestling or acting if you will, MMA, or even Krav Maga) and does make CMA's supercede other arts even if people suck at it. Dont you think?

 

[Wing Chun Dummy]

Great knowledge professed and hypocrites spring up.

Keep it secret and nobody will bash you for it.

Surprise is precious.

The wise eagle never shows his claw.

 

[mantis]

Great knowledge professed and hypocrites spring up.

Keep it secret and nobody will bash you for it.

Surprise is precious.

The wise eagle never shows his claw.

Yep. I say we stop worrying about bashing our art and get busy sitting in a horse stance already.

Good words of wisdom Wing Chun Dummy. I hate to say but you dont sound like a dummy at all.

the wise eagle is called an owl btw

 

[Wing Chun Dummy]

I hate to say but you dont sound like a dummy at all.

It's an honour to receive compliments from a Martial Talk Master Black Belt!

 

[matt.m]

You know, I don't particularly like escrima stick training, however that doesn't make it good. I don't care for Tai Chi, that doesn't make it good. All arts, when practiced diligently by good instructors are good and effective.

What do you want to gain? What do you want to do? What do you want to accomplish? Also, if the training spins your wheels then bark your tires all day long.

 

[Xue Sheng]

You know, I don't particularly like escrima stick training, however that doesn't make it good. I don't care for Tai Chi, that doesn't make it good.

It doesn't make it bad either

 

[matt.m]

It doesn't make it bad either

That is 100 % correct