Circular punch

JowGaWolf

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He's taken away the option to discuss and debate. He's said that because I don't train his art, I can't possibly grasp what he's talking about.
This isn't a dig. This is the truth.

How can a person tell you about the mechanics of playing the piano or guitar if that person doesn't practice or play the piano or guitar.

How can a person tell you about the mechanics of swimming in the ocean vs swimming in a pool if that person has done neither.

How can you tell me about something that I train and actually use. If you don't train or use what I train? So if this takes away the debate then, good. Because it shouldn't be a debate. It should be a discussion. If you like straight punches then good. That's great. I like linear punches too. I mix things up and I can use both with no problems.

But during this conversation, I and others have given you more knowledge about circular punches than you have given us about linear punches. It would be arrogant to think that I could grasp something that I don't train. Especially when it comes to martial arts, where so many people train martial arts and still can't grasp stuff.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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After one has seen this clip, it's hard to argue that the circular punch doesn't generate enough knock down power.

Gung-l-I-circular-punch.gif
 

JowGaWolf

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After one has seen this clip, it's hard to argue that the circular punch doesn't generate enough knock down power.

Gung-l-I-circular-punch.gif
Some people would call this a hook, and maybe a "long hook" but it isn't. A closer look shows that he's not using the same knuckles that are used when throwing the modern hooks that we see in boxing and in other systems. Here's what I see. I could be wrong on this stuff, in terms of the guy that gets knocked out.

1. The attacker tries to pull tries to pull down the guard hand.

2. The defender evades the "lead hand guard pull" and uses that momentum to power a circular long fist. The being of the punch and the escape from the "lead hand guard pull" are the same. (2 things at the same time powered by the same motion.)

3. Missing the "lead hand guard pull" causes that delay in reaction that I was speaking of. When I look at his left arm, it seems to retreat in limbo and not back into chamber. His guard pull travels across his body instead of downward. Had he pulled his hand downward he would have been able to use that momentum in a circular motion to return the hand to cover his head. But because his pull goes across his body, it travels longer than needed and delayed his punching mechanics of the right arm (tried to make my hand move in a similar manner and I found that I was unable to punch with my right hand with any speed. The body mechanics were broke.

4. The attacker sees the counters punch and turn his head. In order to slip the punch my slightly moving his face. (it's about all he had time to do), which goes back to what I was saying about (only having enough time to make a face in preparation of getting hit.)

5. The turning of the head kills his field of vision. By turning his head like that, the defenders punch will travel in the blind spot with no problem . This is an easy thing to test. Place a bottle, or object in front of you. Now turn your head about 50 degrees to the right or left and you'll see that object turns into a haze and almost vanish.
here you can see how this punch is traveling in the blind spot. At this point the brain isn't going to be able to process the punch because it's no longer getting visual data about the punch
upload_2021-1-11_21-5-17.png



This is confirmation that the punch traveled in the blind spot. It hits him right were the ear and Jaw hinges. He would have never seen this punch coming. We also don't see the attacker counter with faster right punch.
upload_2021-1-11_21-8-5.png


As far as long fist punching techniques. This punch landed right where it was supposed to. Text book example.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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1. The attacker tries to pull tries to pull down the guard hand.

2. The defender evades the "lead hand guard pull" and uses that momentum to power a circular long fist.
This is what I would call to "lead your opponent into the emptiness".

- Your opponent tries to make arm contact.
- You don't want his arm to contact on your arm. You rotate your arm the same direction as his arm is rotated. You then punch back.

In the whole process, your opponent's arm just hits into the thin air.

If his opponent can detect his intention, his opponent reverses the arm rotation, his opponent's left arm can wrap around his right arm.

I like to use this trick to achieve an "arm wrap". The successful rate is high.

In many "sticky hand" thread, I like to talk about "how to avoid arm contact". IMO, if we talk about "arm contact", we should also talk about "avoid arm contact". This clip is a good example.
 

geezer

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In long fist, if you dodge my right hook punch, my right hook punch will change into a right back fist. If you block my right back fist, either my right back fist will change into another right hook punch, or my left hook punch will come to your head.

The "loop" then start all over again. This is why I like the circular punch so much.

I never trained this way (only saw it done decades ago with a Chinese friend who did some CLF) but the flow seems a lot like some of the striking patterns in my escrima.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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You can

- use a circular punch to knock down a straight punch.
Here is an example (a clip I took 2 days ago) that you can use circular punch as anti-missile system to shoot down your opponent's straight punch.

This clip can prove that I'm a mask person. :D

my-circular-punch-counter-jab-2.gif
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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I never trained this way (only saw it done decades ago with a Chinese friend who did some CLF) but the flow seems a lot like some of the striking patterns in my escrima.
When I dodge under my opponent's circular punch, I will use my palm to push on my opponent's elbow joint. This way, it will be difficult for him to change that circular punch into a back fist (tries to land on top of my head).

my-head-circle.gif
 
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JowGaWolf

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This is what I would call to "lead your opponent into the emptiness".
Yep. This is the best description of what it feels like. I recommend every martial artist to experience this at least once in their life in order experience what it feels like. I've taken more than several trips to emptiness. Like the Travel Brochure says "It's Empty"

Here is an example (a clip I took 2 days ago) that you can use circular punch as anti-missile system to shoot down your opponent's straight punch.

This clip can prove that I'm a mask person. :D

my-circular-punch-counter-jab-2.gif
Awesome clip. Looking good there, there with your Covid hair lol. I have a Covid beard, not enough hair on my head to grow lol.

What's the next move if he is throwing a 1-2 jab combo? I'm guessing that hitting over his arm like that triggers an reaction to retreat because it almost looks like you are trying to hit his face. So maybe the technique triggers a block response from him?
 

JowGaWolf

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When I dodge under my opponent's circular punch, I will use my palm to push on my opponent's elbow joint. This way, it will be difficult for him to change that circular punch into a back fist (tries to land on top of my head).

my-head-circle.gif
ohhhhh that's what you are talking about. Always leaving out the important bits lol. When you said you were ducking, I didn't know you were securing the arm from coming back. It also prevents that other hand from punching your face.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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What's the next move if he is throwing a 1-2 jab combo?
It's nice to have over 1000 clips on my computer, so I can always find a clip to help our discussion.

You can use

- right hook to knock down your opponent's left jab.
- left hook to knock down his right cross.

my-double-spears.gif


Since I like to attack first when my opponent is on guard. I like to use circular punch to open my opponent's guard.

my-hook-open-guard-1.gif
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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It's so funny that a "left foot sweep, left hook, right hook" is one of my favor combos.

In this clip, his opponent knocks him down after his left hook, and before his right hook.

Gung-l-I-circular-punch.gif
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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Many things can be seen in this short GIF.

1. The hook punch can be powerful.
2. To use a low roundhouse kick (or foot sweep) to set up a hook punch is good strategy.
3. Most hook always come in pair, a left hook followed by a right hook.
4. If you rotate your arm the same direction as your opponent's arm is rotating, his arm cannot make contact on your arm. You will lead your opponent into the emptiness.
5. It's dangerous when your circular punch is hitting into the thin air. Your opponent's circular punch will come in through the opening you have just created.
6. ...

5. can be an interested discussion. What should you do if you have realized that your left hook just hit into the thin air?

IMO,

1. You should reverse your left hook and change it into a back fist, comb hair, or inside out block. This way, you can seal the hole that you have just created. Your opponent's right hook will have no space to come in and knock you down.
2. You can change your left hook into a left downward parry, followed by a grab. If your left hand can grab on your opponent's right wrist, his right hook cannot come to your head.

Gung-l-I-circular-punch.gif
 

Buka

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It's so funny that a "left foot sweep, left hook, right hook" is one of my favor combos.

In this clip, his opponent knocks him down after his left hook, and before his right hook.

Gung-l-I-circular-punch.gif

I hear you, bro. One of my favorite combos was right foot sweep, right hook, left hook.
 

JowGaWolf

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I like reading how people are sharing there experience with the sweep -> hook. I like this type of discussion and sharing of experience. I'm more of a low kick -> hook person. I've seen videos of people getting KO'd with both. A very practical combination (attack leg -> hook punch)
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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sweep -> hook.
I like foot sweep. I can use it yo achieve the following goals:

- I can move in and close the distance.
- I can force my opponent to stand on one leg.
- I can force my opponent's body to spin to my right. This can make his back hand punch difficult.
- My opponent will pay more attention on his leg and pay less attention on his head.
- At that particular moment, my opponent cannot kick me.
- ...

This clip is also a "left sweep, left hook, right hook" combo.

- The left hook is used to push away opponent's leading arm.
- The right hook is used to achieve head lock.

my-sweep-choke.gif
 
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punisher73

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Chuck Liddell teaching his "overhand right" that, at the time, allowed him to dominate the LHW Division in the UFC.

Looks VERY much like a northern style kung fu punch being discussed.
 

Ivan

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This kind of circular punches doesn't exist in many MA systems. Why?

Your thought?

I've seen this in Taekwondo and it's called a ridge hand, though it doesn't seem to be as circular. The reason it's not used is due to the immense pain you feel when using this full force. We trained this on kick shields and a hot searing pain always shoots up your thumb, because it's almost impossible not to make contact with the first thumb join no matter how much you tuck it in

From what I see, the hits are slow, and use circular swinging motions to generate power which seems inefficient as personally, I'd find it easier to generate momentum by kicking off the ground; the only advantage I can see is that it's a very unorthodox motion, but doing this in the modern era of martial arts fighting and combat sports is begging for your opponent to weave underneath and shatter your liver.

Nevertheless, it looks like northern kung fu, and that is powerful stuff. I recognise this movement from here:
you can see the punches around 0:25
 

JowGaWolf

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The reason it's not used is due to the immense pain you feel when using this full force. We trained this on kick shields and a hot searing pain always shoots up your thumb, because it's almost impossible not to make contact with the first thumb join no matter how much you tuck it in
This seems like bad hand structure is being used or conditioning of the hand hasn't been done. No matter what punch you use, it should never feel like "a hot searing pain shoots up your thumb."

I'm only saying this because the ridge hand used to be one of my favorite strikes and I have never described it as that. How are you tucking your thumb? Maybe you had some damaged nerves in your hand?

The only time my hand felt hot from punching was when I ruptured the veins in the back of my hand doing backfist as hard as I could, which caused me to use bad structure. Sort of like the harder a person tries to punch the more likely the structure will fall apart, because they are trying to hit harder than what they are actually capable of doing.
 

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