Chi Saou

[7starmantis]

My Sifu started a new class after our regular advanced class that works strictly on the principles of sticking and following used in chi saou. Its awesome the little things, that you never thought about when playing hands before, that mean all the difference in the world.

I'm curious as to how many of you guys use chi saou in your training? If you do, what do you like about it, if not what do you see useless, or not good about it?

7sm

 

[7starmantis]

Wow, the activity in the Chinese Martial Arts section has grown beyond my wildest dreams.

 

[Rich Parsons]

7 Star, I am not really knowledgable about CMA.

I browse occaisionally and enjoy most.

I just do not have the knowledge or back ground to post.

Could you maybe start a history thread on your art, and then from that I and others might gain some knowledge or be able to ask follow up questions.

Thank You for your patience.

:asian:

 

[Phil Elmore]

It's also possible that those who might respond to your threads choose not to.

 

[tshadowchaser]

We play with something simular but do not call it by any name. I have foun that it makes for some intresting play when it is put into the sparring area.
Being able to touch an opponet and not loose that contact is a great advantage in some instances
I am surprise that none of the WC people have not talked about this . I know that many of the Chines arts tech it So I dont understand why no one is talking if they use it

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Chi Sao is one of the reasons for my own interest in Wing Chun. I had a discussion last year with Sean Kelly at a kenpo camp on it. He was expanding a 'Hubad?" drill using Chi Sao. I've also seen something similar in Modern Arnis in the Tapi-Tapi drills. My own training was sadly short, though I hope to get back into the CMA sometime soon.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Wow, the activity in the Chinese Martial Arts section has grown beyond my wildest dreams.

We're a little lighter than I would like in the CMA forums, but we're hoping that things will pick up soon. Way too much good stuff in the Chinese arts IMHO.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
We're a little lighter than I would like in the CMA forums, but we're hoping that things will pick up soon. Way too much good stuff in the Chinese arts IMHO.

Yes, I was attempting to be a little sarcastic and funny at the same time. There is really so much encompassed by the title CMA.

I knew wing chun practiced using chi saou, but its interesting to here the other arts that use something similar. It really is a great way to learn to smoothly transition from technique to technique and learn to let the opponent dictate which comes next. For instance, if I try a chin na break, and the opponent yields out of it, I can immediately switch to another technique without loosing any momentum.

7sm

 

[tshadowchaser]

For instance, if I try a chin na break, and the opponent yields out of it, I can immediately switch to another technique without loosing any momentum.

and there in is the beauty of Chi Saou. Being able to flow to the next technique with out ever looseing touch with the opponet
There is something beautiful in the simplicity of the moments

 

[brothershaw]

From my experience and observation quite a few arts have some degree of "chi sau " to them, as far as sticking and sensitivity.
I study wing chun, but in some training methods i have experienced in FMA's there is a sticking of sticks, and feeling for openings, and positions. Also in grappling arts ( judo) there is again a degree of sticking to your oppenent, and feeling so you can change from one thing to the other without breaking contact ( at a moderately skilled level,).
From my experience the idea of sticking and feeling for energy and openings is pretty wide spread, just applied differently in different arts. Think about aikido, tai chi of course, judo, many if not all of the southern chinese close range arts. Basically any art that relies on maintaining a degree of contact with your oppenent as opposed to staying at the edge of striking range. Particularly an art that needs to offbalance.

 

[arnisador]

Even Shotokan has a version of it.

 

[7starmantis]

Thats interesting, I didn't know wo many systems used a version of chi saou. Of those who have or currently do practice chi saou, have you or do you practice it with blindfolds on, or in complete darkness? thas where it gets hairy!! but also teaches you feeling.

7sm

 

[brothershaw]

Not to mislead you, the sticking and sensitivity in tai chi ( push hands ) is different from chi sau in wing chun, but the purposes are similiar. To sense an oppenent energy, feel thier intenttn, maybe find an opening.
In grappling there is also a sticking to the oppenent feeling for a good time to offbalance them, or get them into a submission. The southern chinese close range styles probably ( i would imagine) have sensitivity drills the clsoet to wing chun for obvious reasons. Overall the general purposes are the same.

To 7star I have know people who sometimes practice chi sau blind folded. From my experience if your stationary it doesn't make a difference for me because you are not using your eyes anyway. Moving around it makes more of a difference, I am not up to that level.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by brothershaw
To 7star I have know people who sometimes practice chi sau blind folded. From my experience if your stationary it doesn't make a difference for me because you are not using your eyes anyway. Moving around it makes more of a difference, I am not up to that level.

Yes, it makes a huge difference, in our chi saou class, we use blindfolds ALOT, following with different parts of the body, hands, forearms, shoulders, even back to back. Its extremely difficult, but really improves your feel. I mean, we are moving all over the whole room to. Its good to see other people practicing chi saou, I love it so much.
you said somthing about push hands not being the same, but its pretty close to our chi saou training, except its more focused on "stealing the opponants center", but in mantis we focus on that ALOT in fighting applications.

7sm

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I played with a little chi sao this past weekend at the WMAA delaware camp. One of the drills that was done looked very similar in form, and flow to the drills I've seen. There was a very definate bong sao in the mix. Was fun...definately need to do more.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Thats interesting, I didn't know wo many systems used a version of chi saou. Of those who have or currently do practice chi saou, have you or do you practice it with blindfolds on, or in complete darkness? thas where it gets hairy!! but also teaches you feeling.

7sm

Chi Saou - Blind Fold.

I do not do it blind folded, I do close my eyes. As i am testing myself I try not to cheat. If I know I have lost it, I will open my eyes and see where I have lost it and possible how.

:asian:

 

[someguy]

I love chi sau. I like that I know how to deal with energy coming at me. I used to hate it when i got sllapped around so much. Now its fun to slap people around. I wish I had some one around here to play chi sau with.

 

[pvwingchun]

This is interesting to me. Those of you who do not do Wing Chun how do you do your Chi Sau. Is it two handed rolling WC Chi Sau or is it done differently....? Is it just sticky hand drills? How does the footwork work? Are you doing just freestyle Chi Sau or are there forms and drills to it?

 

[someguy]

Do remeber that chi sau is very diffrent from one stystem to another. But intresting thouth. Anybody know how chi sau started?

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by someguy
But intresting thouth. Anybody know how chi sau started?

This is an interesting question. I wonder what the history of this training technique is?