Chambering the fist like in the forms is unrealistic

gpseymour

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Yet, kiah! Style punching has been proven to be significantly weaker than boxing style punches. Why do you suppose that is? Different mechanics, perhaps?
Weaker doesn’t mean “arm only”, which was your assertion. I don’t see a distinct difference in the mechanics, but that might be because I was taught TMA punching by a golden gloves boxer.
 

Martial D

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If you only move your arm without moving your body, your punch can be faster but with less power.
I don't know. Why would body rotation slow down your arm and shoulder muscles?

If you accelerate your arm INTO a rotation of the body, shouldn't the rotation speed add to the total speed?
 

drop bear

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no it should come from the arm, the other movements just increase it or to turn it round if your not using the muscles in your arm and shoulder efficiently all the foot and hip travel in the world are not going to make it a good punch

I would have said footwork and body movement generate power more than arm movement.

And is generally the reason nobody can body punch well. Because they try to fling this huge arm and it just doesn't work. Rather than walk into to a good position to throw.


reaching with your hands and not your feet is a common mistake. It is a big one in grappling as well.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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I don't know. Why would body rotation slow down your arm and shoulder muscles?

If you accelerate your arm INTO a rotation of the body, shouldn't the rotation speed add to the total speed?
When you try to smash a fly 3 feet in front of your face with both palms, will your hands move first (your hand then pull your body), or will you body move first (your body then push your arm)?

For

- power, your body push your arm.
- speed, your arm pull your body. When your hand contact your opponent's body, you then add your body behind your punch.
 

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Far as I'm concerned it's a point of reference for a begginer. They're told keep the other hand on the belt. So they get used to the hand being in one place and the way it's set makes it easier to teach the rotation of the punch. Later as they advance they lift the hand from the hip to the head and it's almost exactly at the same position as the waste and gives a good guard. Also move the arm forward a little you've got a good body cover to protect your ribs. There's plenty of hidden uses for it
 

Buka

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The only thing that I can think of is a stiff arm in football doesn't use the bodies. It's not a martial art, but it shows an instance where you don't need to use your whole body while running away. Outside of that, the tsuki in sumo I sometimes see without any body behind it, but I don't think that's the norm there.

I teach straight arms. While they don't use as much of your body as a typical fighting strike done with the arms, they use your body motion against a target that might be moving in relation to you, or, sometimes, against a somewhat stationary body that's trying to impede or intercept you.

You use your steps, which I suppose you could call footwork, to replace the power you would use punching from a somewhat stable base. We used to use straight arms for training against multiples as well as for moving people out of a space or out of your way.

They're just an option - like anything else.
 

Flying Crane

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The footwork is cover step (move one foot across and in front of another) followed by stealing step (move one foot across and behind the other).
I guess I would like to see how well he roots, and derives power from his legs. Then I can better see what is happening. The specific stepping is less important.
 

JP3

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I don't know. Why would body rotation slow down your arm and shoulder muscles?

If you accelerate your arm INTO a rotation of the body, shouldn't the rotation speed add to the total speed?
I'd agree with that. I think that what's going on here is the ever-elusive idea of always strike from your center... otherwise known as power comes from the earth/ground... or punching power comes from your hips. Whatever, they all end up meaning the same thing to me, in principle.

It's possible to strike solidly with just a flailing arm motion. Anyone can learn to deliver a backfist that's good enough to bust open a mouse over someone's eye, break a nose, or knockout a tooth sometimes with no body involvement, but with good technique in the shoulder, upper arm, forearm, wrist nd hand itself. It seems alien, but I can conceptually "see" a straight punch doing the same thing.

But, add in the additional energy which can be generated and delivreed through said strike with the additional muscle mass driving the body's weight/energy/momentum right into the same strike, exponential growth of energy delivery results.

Stand still, use only the shoulder, arm and hand to execute a simple hook punch. Watch how much the bag moves, even if you're giving it all you got with just that much.

Then, go ahead and throw the same punch with what we call "proper" body mechanics driving the punch. Viola! Bag ends up giving you a much better feedback by flying away.a
 

gpseymour

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I don't know. Why would body rotation slow down your arm and shoulder muscles?

If you accelerate your arm INTO a rotation of the body, shouldn't the rotation speed add to the total speed?
The speed of the fist should be greater with rotation added. The time from start to finish, of course, can be longer (slower), since you have to move more mass.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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When we talk about punch with body behind, I always like to put up this clip. Each and every punch that he does may take about 1 second. In fighting, you just don't have that 1 full second.

 

drop bear

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The speed of the fist should be greater with rotation added. The time from start to finish, of course, can be longer (slower), since you have to move more mass.

Yeah but you are more likely to loose structure.
 

Flying Crane

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When we talk about punch with body behind, I always like to put up this clip. Each and every punch that he does may take about 1 second. In fighting, you just don't have that 1 full second.

I think the time it “takes” is irrelevant. He is demonstrating the method to a group of people. They need to be able to see what he is doing. Too fast, and they cannot see. I am sure he can generate and apply much faster than he is showing.

I am sure he can apply it where and when necessary, and the “time” it takes is meaningless.
 
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JowGaWolf

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I think the time it “takes” is irrelevant. He is demonstrating the method to a group of people. They need to be able to see what he is doing. Too fast, and they cannot see. I am sure he can generate and apply much faster than he is showing.

I am sure he can apply it where and when necessary, and the “time” it takes is meaningless.
This is what I'm thinking as well. He's doing the technique in a way that others can see the mechanics of it..I would be shocked if he said. "This is how you do this technique in application."

A lot of things that look real slow in training or when demoed like this are actually much faster in application. Just for looking at it without knowing his fighting skills, I still wouldn't want to get a shoulder bump from this guy.

I do fajin when I do my tai chi and yeah it's not as easy to generate power. Most of it feels really weak because I don't have that body connection yet. Body movements aren't syncing up. Jow Ga has something similar to fajin but it's easier for me to do than fajin. I'll get it right one day.
 

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