Bad habits

[ajs1976]

I'm starting to pickup a couple of bad habits from my TKD training. I wanted to see if any of you had some suggestions.

I go to a WTF school, so we do olympic style sparring. We are taught to keep our hands up and not down at our waists like you see an the olympics. As a colored belt who mostly spars other colored belts, I don't have to worry to much about head kicks. What I have noticed is that I am starting to drop my hands when I spar. I'm not doing it intentionally. When the round starts, my hands are up to protect my face, but as it goes on my hands drop lower and lower.

The other problem I have noticed is with chambering my non-punching hand. I'm trying to incorporate more punching into my sparring. I have noticed that because of practicing forms, have gotten in the into the habit of chambering my non-punching hand instead of keeping it up to protect my face and ribs. I guess more practice with that would help.

 

[terryl965]

Well first off it is great that your school makes you keep your hands up, but remember you control your body functions and your mind is telling your body do not worry no head shots allowed. One needs to developed the mind and try by having someone throw punches and kicks to the head until you condition your mind to accept the possibility have gettin hit.

As far as punches goes start to throw them from various position not always from chamber that should help.

Terry

 

[FearlessFreep]

I'm a (36yo) TKD green belt, just tested for blue, and I've scored headshots in tournaments and regularly throw them in practice (and my instructor throws them at me). Do *not* think you do not have to fear head shots from other colored belts.

Dropping hands is probably partially feeling you don't have to worry but can also be fatigue as you are concentrating on the parts of your body and don't feel you know to be aware of keeping your hands up. Working on you conditioning of your arms/shoulders so you won't get tired and tend to droop. Also, spar with someone, at least occasionally, who can kick you in the head, just to keep you honest and alert.

Aso, practice against a bag a lot. Practice punching wth one hand and blocking with the other, either high at the head or low at the ribs/chest, so the muscle memory builds up to counter the muscle memory from your form

 

[mantis]

you could be dropping your arms to help maintain balance. work on your kicks slowly and watch if you need your arms to balance yourself.
i'd recommend you also kick a bag or something slowly but this time concentrate on your arms and not the kicks. practice this for a week or so and you will start going back to your fast and high kicks WITH your arms up.
your school seems to not really make you put ur arms up. They have to force you to do it somehow. I got a treet trunk up my chest and i got kicked and punched hard until i learned to do it.
I totally agree with FearlessFreep. he's making good points. also how come you dont have a partner? if you do let him know of your problem, and i can pretty much guarantee he will be aiming at your head every time.
good luck

 

[Gemini]

As a beginner, you should definately be taught to keep your hands up as your instructor has taught you. Good for him.

As you progress, you will tend to drop your hands. It's not IF you drop your hands that's so important. It's WHY. Don't do it just to look more advanced than you are. Do it for the same reasons more advanced players do it. In WTF style, your hands serve a greater purpose at your sides than they do up. If you have to ask why, stop reading this. The real question to determine whether that's a good thing or bad thing is simply, when someone throws a head shot at you, can you still block it even with your hands low? If yes, you're progressing. If no. You're kidding yourself. Put them back up. You're not ready yet.

Chambering your non hitting hand. You're right. It's a bad habit. If you're still at the stage where you're using your arm to block, it's way out of position if your fist is chambered at your side. I assume you've been taught where to keep your arms for blocking. Go back to what you were taught and focus on that for awhile. When you get to the point they're where they belong without you thinking about it, go on to the next thing.

Don't try to emmulate the way more experienced players look. That's the best way to get yourself in trouble in a hurry.

Good luck with your training!

 

[karatekid1975]

I agree with FearlessFreep. There's this kid (about 15 or so) that came into the advanced class (red belts and above) a few months ago. He is so used to keeping his hands low (color belts below red are not allowed to kick to the head). Plus he looked at our class, and I guess he thought, "All these older folks won't kick me in the head either." Guess what? He was wrong. He got clocked in the head many times by a 50-something in that class! I'm 30 and I'm a "headhunter." One day, I did a hook kick to his head and almost knocked him out. I thought I was going to get in trouble for control .... nope. HE got in trouple for dropping his hands.

So, I agree with what was said already. Spar someone that's a "headhunter." Spar slow/no contact first to get used to blocking/moving/ect and keeping your hands up. Then step it up a notch each time you feel comfortable with what you are doing. Pretty soon, you will be doing it automatically.

 

[ajs1976]

As you progress, you will tend to drop your hands. It's not IF you drop your hands that's so important. It's WHY. Don't do it just to look more advanced than you are. Do it for the same reasons more advanced players do it. In WTF style, your hands serve a greater purpose at your sides than they do up. If you have to ask why, stop reading this. The real question to determine whether that's a good thing or bad thing is simply, when someone throws a head shot at you, can you still block it even with your hands low? If yes, you're progressing. If no. You're kidding yourself. Put them back up. You're not ready yet.

My hands aren't dropping to my sides, they were still up, but at chest height not chin height. I have found that when sparring with my hands there I can get them down or up fast enough to block most attacks.

My main concern with dropping my hands isn't with sparring matches, but with self-defense situations which will most likely involve punches to the face and not kicks, low or high.

 

[Gemini]

My main concern with dropping my hands isn't with sparring matches, but with self-defense situations which will most likely involve punches to the face and not kicks, low or high.

My apologies, doc clean, I must have completely misunderstood your first post.

 

[ajs1976]

Sorry, I left that detail out of my first post.

One of the things I have been doing lately is looking at the things that give TKD a bad rap and at how i'm learning and doing things to see how they compare. Trying to get a better understanding of how TKD is going to fit into all aspects of my life not just that thing I do a couple hours a week.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I suppose one thing to think about is that the reason you can get away with keeping you hands lower in TKD sparring than in say, boxing, is because teh distances involved are greater. In boxing, you would get killed if you kept your hands at chest level. In TKD sparring, you can get away with it if you are fast to get your hands up, and that's becaus since in one sport you are using hand punches and in the other you are using legs and kicks, you tend to stand closer in one than the other. Or in reverse, you let you hands come down because the person cannot hit you in the face from the distance that you establish with your legs.

Just something to think about in terms of self-defense. I think if somone gets in close enough to start punching on you then you are probably going to keep your hands up naturally, but try to use your legs to keep a greater distance

 

[Shu2jack]

A couple of suggestions to help you learn to keep your hands up.

One is to practice target work with a partner. Have him hold hand pads as you work on your punching. Focus on technique and occassionally have your partner swing at your head. This will encourage proper techinque, covering up, and getting used to be swung at. Heavy bag work would also be good. Focus on not pulling back and opening yourself in order to deliver powerful hand strikes. Again, the focus should be technique.

When I practice my forms, I do the chambered punching thing too. But I look at it in two ways. 1.) The hand that is pulling back would have someone's hair, arm, or shirt in it so I can pull them in a direction as I hit them and 2.) Forms focus on ideal body mechanics. When you throw a reverse punch, you are in a solid stance, you fully twist your hips, and you pull the hand down to your hip for more power. Sparring uses a shortened method to this. The stance is more mobile, the hip twisting is still there, but instead of pulling the hand down do your hip, pull it back to the side of your head. Not only will this cover your head, but your retracting hand will be wound up for a punch. Just think of sparring as using an advance form of the method that a poomse uses.

As for lowering your hands when you kick. Grab your ears when you kick in class. If you try to lower your hands when you kick you will yank on your ears and it will hurt after a while. That will teach ya.

 

[mantis]

A couple of suggestions to help you learn to keep your hands up.

One is to practice target work with a partner. Have him hold hand pads as you work on your punching. Focus on technique and occassionally have your partner swing at your head. This will encourage proper techinque, covering up, and getting used to be swung at. Heavy bag work would also be good. Focus on not pulling back and opening yourself in order to deliver powerful hand strikes. Again, the focus should be technique.

When I practice my forms, I do the chambered punching thing too. But I look at it in two ways. 1.) The hand that is pulling back would have someone's hair, arm, or shirt in it so I can pull them in a direction as I hit them and 2.) Forms focus on ideal body mechanics. When you throw a reverse punch, you are in a solid stance, you fully twist your hips, and you pull the hand down to your hip for more power. Sparring uses a shortened method to this. The stance is more mobile, the hip twisting is still there, but instead of pulling the hand down do your hip, pull it back to the side of your head. Not only will this cover your head, but your retracting hand will be wound up for a punch. Just think of sparring as using an advance form of the method that a poomse uses.

As for lowering your hands when you kick. Grab your ears when you kick in class. If you try to lower your hands when you kick you will yank on your ears and it will hurt after a while. That will teach ya.

measure the length of your ears before and after and tell us what you find out

 

[goshawk]

My hands aren't dropping to my sides, they were still up, but at chest height not chin height.

::grin:: I see my hands dropping lower with every match too, and that's less bad habit and more because my shoulders are absolutely exhausted. Not in pain, just so tired that they feel like they're by my temples when they're actually around my jaw. I don't even tend to notice until my instructor starts landing strikes and kicks on my head that are, frankly, ridiculous. Maybe a conditioning issue, as well as differing training?

Not a TKD artist here, but the thread was interesting so I hope you don't mind my dropping by. =P

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

I suppose one thing to think about is that the reason you can get away with keeping you hands lower in TKD sparring than in say, boxing, is because teh distances involved are greater. In boxing, you would get killed if you kept your hands at chest level. In TKD sparring, you can get away with it if you are fast to get your hands up, and that's becaus since in one sport you are using hand punches and in the other you are using legs and kicks, you tend to stand closer in one than the other. Or in reverse, you let you hands come down because the person cannot hit you in the face from the distance that you establish with your legs.

Just something to think about in terms of self-defense. I think if somone gets in close enough to start punching on you then you are probably going to keep your hands up naturally, but try to use your legs to keep a greater distance

Yup, in WTF Olympic TKD the practitioners do tend to drop their hands a lot, unlike boxers who tend to keep their guard up if they're not exhausted. Anyway, in a street fight, consistently dropping your hands may lead to getting your *** kicked. My brother-in-law was an up and coming boxer for a while, and he really doesn't respect us TKDists primarily because we do tend to drop our fists when we're sparring. He thinks it's not realistic self-defense, which it probably is right...:shrug:

 

[Gemini]

He thinks it's not realistic self-defense, which it probably is right...:shrug:

It isn't meant to be. Fighting is fighting and sparring is sparring. He thinks the way he does because he, like many, doesn't understand the difference. It's a completely different animal, and unless you're familiar with why we do what we do and how we do it, you cannot understand.

Just say to him "boxers are not realistic because they keep their hands up all the time. Against a kick, that's a sure way to loose." When he looks at you like you're an idiot, just say "now you know what you sound like to me." Our hands are where they need to be, just like his.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I've had (my first) two classes dealing with point sparring this week and the one thing I notice in doing that versus olympic style is that I kept getting tapped in the head due to being not used to defending against fast hand strikes to the head.

 

[terryl965]

I've had (my first) two classes dealing with point sparring this week and the one thing I notice in doing that versus olympic style is that I kept getting tapped in the head due to being not used to defending against fast hand strikes to the head.

Yea fearless one must keep there hand fast and ready, point sparring is a whole different game. Wait until someone throws a spinning back fist or you get your first palm strike o th chest area. That will wake you up fast.
Keep up the good work and let us know how you progress.
Terry

 

[TX_BB]

I've had (my first) two classes dealing with point sparring this week and the one thing I notice in doing that versus olympic style is that I kept getting tapped in the head due to being not used to defending against fast hand strikes to the head.

Try this, jab to the shoulder to get proper distance. On thier movement execute a spinning hook kick (close cousin of whip kick) to the head. Once the opponent learns that your willing to go for the big score they normally will stay back out of the range of the quick flick.

Remember hand and foot ranges are just slightly different. These sublties are what figting is all about.

Take Care

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

It isn't meant to be. Fighting is fighting and sparring is sparring. He thinks the way he does because he, like many, doesn't understand the difference. It's a completely different animal, and unless you're familiar with why we do what we do and how we do it, you cannot understand.

Just say to him "boxers are not realistic because they keep their hands up all the time. Against a kick, that's a sure way to loose." When he looks at you like you're an idiot, just say "now you know what you sound like to me." Our hands are where they need to be, just like his.

Sure, of course I agree. WTF Olympic sparring is completely regulated and structured so that the opponents don't maime or kill each other. Also, maybe because it's more effective in sport TKD to not have one's hands up and in the way when moving in quickly on the offensive to deliver a head kick to the opponent's coconut would help explain why some of us TKD practioners do tend to drop our guard when sparring.

However, as I'm sure you're aware, in a street brawl, all bets are off, one just defends oneself when needed. No Olympic sparring rules apply there sportsfans... :btg:

In any event, in a real fight it would be wise to keep your guard up, so I would agree with my boxer Bro that you don't want to be dropping your guard in the real world. TKD like all MAs can be effective in real life situations, and it also has it's drawbacks and short comings. Most MAs have their strong and weak points. Anyway, my long winded reply is that Olympic TKD is a whole different animal, it's a regulated sport like boxing. I understand it because I practice it, some people don't get it, so I stopped wasting my time trying to explain the differences... :asian:

 

[KingofSpades]

I have only done point sparring, never olympic, so can someone tell me the difference.