can waiting too long to spar be a bad thing?

cfr

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Ive asked questions similar to this in the past but not quite this difinative. Im at a school that teaches a mix of Muay Thai, JKD, and FMA. Sounds pretty cool so far. However, it takes 2 1/2 years to start sparring. Im about half way through. Can waiting this long have any adverse affects?
 

TigerWoman

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Probably not. If you wait, later you will be conditioned and you will have the skills to put together more effectively. That is the part you will have to learn ..how to read your opponent, when to react, how to move, what attacks are effective, what defenses, etc. And you miss alot of fun!

Hey just noticed this is my 2000th post! TW
 

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How long have to already been at this school? IMO, I would say 2 1/2 yrs. is too long to wait. Granted, it is important to have an understanding of the basic fundamentals, but you need to be able to apply them in a 'live' situation during your training. Standing in one spot, doing punches and kicks is fine...when you're first learning, but if thats the basis of the training, I really can't see how skills are going to improve. In a fight, the techs. are going to be done on someone moving, not standing still.

Just my .02!

Mike
 
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markulous

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2 and 1/2 years is too long. Like MJS said fighting against an moving target is WAY different. After you first start sparring you'll realize that most of the stuff you are taught you won't be able to use effectively because your not used to someone hitting you back. So I think it's a bad thing. I think places should atleast incorporate SOME form of sparring with beginners. Even if it is only going 15% and not the full 100% speed.
 

terryl965

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2.5 years is stupid to wait that long to sparr maybe 2.5 months or weeks. get in there and see if what he is teaching is working for you or not, GOOD LUCK
 

TigerWoman

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cfr said:
Ive asked questions similar to this in the past but not quite this difinative. Im at a school that teaches a mix of Muay Thai, JKD, and FMA. Sounds pretty cool so far. However, it takes 2 1/2 years to start sparring. Im about half way through. Can waiting this long have any adverse affects?

I don't think he has a choice...and they may do stuff differently like put together combinations??? Cfr, don't you ever just put on gear and do one on one stuff? Actually I started sparring as a white belt and don't regret it, but the strength, flexibility and speed etc. has to be built up to be effective and it can be frustrating at first. If you waited, because you apparently have to wait, sparring would come together faster then. After this period, would you do constant sparring or once a week type of training? TW
 
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cfr

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TigerWoman said:
I don't think he has a choice...and they may do stuff differently like put together combinations??? Cfr, don't you ever just put on gear and do one on one stuff?


Yes we do lots of combos and lots of drills. No gear/ sparring though.
 

still learning

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Hello, I guess that is require of your school rules. We must all follow the rules of the teachers and teaching ways. Your time will come and than maybe you will see why?

I agree that is a long,long time to wait to start sparring. It is like sitting in a car for two and half years before you can start driving it around.

To learn to fight...you need to fight....to learn to ride a bike...you need to ride the bike. Most martial schools do not teach you everthing at once...as the years progress, so will more knowledge will be share....did you learn algebra in elementry school?
 
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cfr

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I appreciate everyones thoughts on this.


I realized I probably painted too ugly of a picture. We dont stand in one spot for all of our training. We definately move around and work on footwork while we do our drills. 4 - 6 months I would probably be in a higher phase. This phase has alot more of "my opponent throws in light surprise punches during my drills/ combos to try and mess me up" type of thing.
In addition to this, after many moons when sparring filnally starts, its not just kicking/ punching. Its also trying throws/ locks/ aand sweeps. We do lots of sweeps especially.
 

TigerWoman

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cfr said:
I appreciate everyones thoughts on this.

I realized I probably painted too ugly of a picture. We dont stand in one spot for all of our training. We definately move around and work on footwork while we do our drills. 4 - 6 months I would probably be in a higher phase. This phase has alot more of "my opponent throws in light surprise punches during my drills/ combos to try and mess me up" type of thing.
In addition to this, after many moons when sparring filnally starts, its not just kicking/ punching. Its also trying throws/ locks/ aand sweeps. We do lots of sweeps especially.

As hard as it is to wait, I think you are on track. It sounds like your instructor is teaching the technique you need to do then slowly escalating your training. That way you ingrain the technique first. The way we first start out, the white belt sparring a higher rank. The white belt can't do anything, no strength, no technique etc etc. and the high rank can't take advantage, frustrate or hurt the white belt either. So the learning process is slow that way as it comes together at higher rank. Hang in there. cfr. TW
 

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Waiting 2.5 years to spar is total BS! Especially at a Muay Thai gym. How on earth are you expected to develop your skills in an actual fight situation. Drills can sorta do this but nothing can improve your skills/reveal your weak spots more than sparring.

Sounds like you've already wasted over a year. I wouldn't waste anymore time. Go find another school. Basically, if you're not sparring, you're just doing aerobics.
 

GAB

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TigerWoman said:
As hard as it is to wait, I think you are on track. It sounds like your instructor is teaching the technique you need to do then slowly escalating your training. That way you ingrain the technique first. The way we first start out, the white belt sparring a higher rank. The white belt can't do anything, no strength, no technique etc etc. and the high rank can't take advantage, frustrate or hurt the white belt either. So the learning process is slow that way as it comes together at higher rank. Hang in there. cfr. TW
Hi cfr,

Take it easy, listen to your instructor and to TigerWomen.

You will be subjected to injuries, it could send you home and not come back.

Enjoy and keep learning, watch the others who are sparring and learn.
When you were in High School you had to wait to go to the seniors lawn, when you got there it was a reward, listen to your instructor...

Regards, Gary
 

kenpo tiger

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In our school, the rule is now that you have to be advanced blue - which is approximately 2 to 2-1/2 years. Even then, it depends upon the student. Kids in our school don't spar until 18 years of age. The way it is.

My first school was a slugfest free-for-all when it came to sparring. We would do a couple drills, then told to find a partner who wanted to work same as you. That was just drills, light contact, or going at it. Lots and lots of injuries. Oh, and the kids, some as young as 5, sparred.

At tkd, I sparred from white belt. Different circumstances, because tkd sparring isn't karate sparring which isn't kenpo sparring.

Don't be in such a rush. Learn everything you can and you will be a better fighter for it when you do step into the ring. KT
 
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Disco

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Im at a school that teaches a mix of Muay Thai, JKD, and FMA.

The only Muay Thai I have witnessed has been based upon the learning channel and various other documentory presentations. Everyone of them showed the students sparring very early on in their training. After all, what we've been shown is that Muay Thai is ring fighting. Depending upon what the school is trying to teach, sport concepts or actual self defense, because having that blend of styles seems somewhat confusing to me. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm mistaken here, but I have never heard of JKD competitions - so to me JKD is self defense based. Likewise for the FMA's, but I admit that this is a generality, as I don't know all of the attributes of the different FMA styles. If Muay Thai is the leading aspect of the training, then I would say your being short changed by not being able to spar. If on the other hand it's only a by-product to accompany the other disciplines, then sparring is not that big of an issue. I know some will take exception to that statement, but self defense and sparring are apples and oranges in my opinion.
 
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cfr

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Disco said:
Im at a school that teaches a mix of Muay Thai, JKD, and FMA.

If Muay Thai is the leading aspect of the training, then I would say your being short changed by not being able to spar. If on the other hand it's only a by-product to accompany the other disciplines, then sparring is not that big of an issue. I know some will take exception to that statement, but self defense and sparring are apples and oranges in my opinion.


Its definatley not the leading aspect. Id say a fair mix of the three.
 

kelly keltner

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How do you feel about waitinng 2.5 years?
I think that if you are happy with all other aspects of training in that school, then it is not an unreasonable idea.
If your not comfotable with waiting start looking for someplace else. No point in sticking around in a school where you dread going to class

kk
 
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cfr

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kelly keltner said:
How do you feel about waitinng 2.5 years?
I think that if you are happy with all other aspects of training in that school, then it is not an unreasonable idea.
If your not comfotable with waiting start looking for someplace else. No point in sticking around in a school where you dread going to class

kk


Im totally dig all asprects of the school but this one.
 
R

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It's time to spar when a student exhibits firm comprehension of the basics to intermediate skills taught in a particular school. Sparring before that is only going to create bad habits and sloppy technique.

Mike
 
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Bill Tai

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RHD said:
It's time to spar when a student exhibits firm comprehension of the basics to intermediate skills taught in a particular school. Sparring before that is only going to create bad habits and sloppy technique.

Mike
Gots to agree with this one wholeheartedly.

Until your fundamentals and conditioning are at a level where the correct sort muscle memory and what-not have already set in, you'll probably be too much "in your head" and wind up with the aforementioned bad habits and sloppy technique.

Even when I was a young whippersnapper doing full-on ground-n'-pound, skull-and-knuckle MMA (Muay Thai, Bando, and BJJ mostly) I went through a buttload of drills and conditioning (about 4 hours a day (2 morning, 2 evening), roughly 6 days a week for nearly two years, but I had about 7 or so years of experience before that) before my instructors even considered letting me go for a "light" sparring session.

Got my scrawny butt brutalized by one of the senior students and only started holding my own once training and muscle memory kicked in. Actually wound up "winning" one round after somehow (mechanically?) evading a couple of nasty shots to the head and locking in an armbar (GHU knows how that happened, most of my conscious mind stopped working after the last few blows to the head), which earned me extra round of pain and suffering.

And to think I used to do this stuff for fun...

(actually it was "peer pressure" and the chix :uhyeah: )

Anyhoo, the point is that without all that extensive drilling and practice and whatnot, I probably would have been in debt for a lot more than the check my ego tried to write that day.

Then again, your mileage may vary, and your seniors might be a lot more kind-hearted than mine...
 

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I box. It was almost a year before they let me spar. They haven't taught me to hook, uppercut or anything. Just forward and backward footwork, and left jab and straight right. That's it.

It sounds a bit rough, but they reckon without a left jab you don't have a hope. But the main reason is that sparring goes on in the ring, there is only one ring, and the guys who are actually fighting for the club get the maximum attention and ring time. Everything else revolves around them.

That is OK by me. If it wasn't I'd go elsewhere, but I'd rather be at one of the top ametuer clubs in the city than doing my own thing.

Schools are different. You have to figure out what you need, and then see if the school can give you that. If it can, you may have to stick it out for a while until it thinks you are ready.
 
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