Examples of Previous Training NOT helping?

[WaterGal]

It also doesn't help when you're used to a certain level. And then when you go to other 'places' and even the 'grandmaster' is a P.O.S. you will not accept their 'expertise'.
PS: There are many ways for the same end. And there are ways that are simply useless.

Well, or when the students from that school come to yours! There's a local McDojo TSD chain that we've had a few students transfer from, and oy vey. But I don't think it's TSD in itself that's causing them problems, it's because that chain is terrible and they don't bother to teach good technique.

 

[Azulx]

Spar them using only punching. No kicking. No spinning techniques. No open hand techniques. No grabbing. No throwing. No sweeping.

Oh I see, yes that would be very difficult for me as well. My instructor will occasionally have us spar hands only, and I tend to sometimes throw a kick or two without even meaning too.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What was the biggest conflict? That is, what was it about the Wing Chun you were training that conflicted most with your Kempo?

It's been a few years, so some of the issues are a bit fuzzy.
The place focused largely on application, rather than just the form, and from the application there were a couple issues. The first one was how I punched (which I figured out was an issue with how my shoulder moved) if I fixed it for the WC sifu, my kempo sensei would tell me I was punching incorrectly. If I fixed it during kempo, the WC sifu told me that I had gone back to punching incorrectly. The other issue was in both there were drills that involved us being fairly close to each other, but in WC the sifu wanted me to move in a way that focused on speed and controlling the other persons arm, while in kempo I have always been taught to focus on getting as much power in my close strikes as possible, which didn't seem to be a concern there. I was having trouble getting the speed and control that the wanted, with the power that my kempo wants (I saw almost no power in their movements, although they did a good job at controlling/halting the opponents strikes), and couldn't find a way to reconcile the two.
That said, I have no idea if these issues would come up if I ever decided to try it again, or if they were particular to that sifu.

 

[Blindside]

Teaching karate guys kali, more specifically teaching upper body movement. Trying to teach guys with 20 years of training that focus on having a very erect posture and trying to have them learn a mobile upper body so that they can avoid damange by what is essentially bobbing and weaving was... problematic.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I had the exact opposite. Was being taught WC, and had to stop because it was ruining my kenpo.

This is why I usually advise folks to look for an art that has similar movements, rather than highly different. If your primary art is linear, then a circular art will mess you up, and vice-versa. For me, I came into NGA with a background in Karate (mostly Shotokan) and Judo. Those work quite well with NGA, though I had to learn "softer" movement.

Interestingly, I think my biggest advantage came from 11 years of soccer (football), for balance and kicking.

I do have a student with 8 years of Shotokan experience, and we are having to work a lot on changing his movement from highly linear to somewhat circular (I'm helping him blend the two arts, so he will likely never be as circular as other students), and change his distancing a bit to create a clear transition area from Shotokan to NGA. I'm teaching him as little as possible about our strikes, because he already has a useful foundation. If I tried to change him over to our strikes now, his prior training would make that difficult for him. Of course, I'll need to educate him well on our strikes later, in case he ever wants to teach, but I'll probably let that wait until he gets his orange belt - likely a year or so from now.

 

[Langenschwert]

This makes perfect sense, since unarmed systems rely on body mechanics to generate levels of force that simply are not needed for weapons (specifically, sharp weapons) combat. A thrust with a rapier using nothing but the arm is going to work just fine. A punch using just the arm... not so much.

The body mechanics are just as important with weapons, but they are certainly force multipliers. True time means that an attack starts first with the hand, followed by the body, and then a foot or both feet. It does produce a weaker strike than stepping, planting and then cutting, as is done in a large number of weapon arts. While the step and then strike method produces a powerful strike, it opens up the attacker to be hit before he can complete his strike, as he brings his body into range before he brings his threat/protection into the danger zone. It's not impossible to fence well in false time (kendoka do it all the time), but true times are safer. Here's a rather tongue-in-cheek but very informative video showing True Time, and why it's important:

 

[Dirty Dog]

The body mechanics are just as important with weapons,

I didn't say they were not, nor would I ever say they were not. They're just different, and serve a different purpose.

 

[Langenschwert]

I didn't say they were not, nor would I ever say they were not. They're just different, and serve a different purpose.

Weapons let you do more damage with less strength, and at a greater distance. I didn't mean to imply that you thought body mechanics are irrelevant to weapons. The mechanics of True Time are certainly foreign to some people. You can certainly stab or cut with just your arm, but supporting it with the appropriate body mechanics is vital. People often instinctively use their hips when throwing a hook when learning to box, but for some reason getting people to use their hips when they swing a sword is very often challenging. It's like the weapon somehow cuts off the communication from their brain to their body. So weird.

True Time also has the added challenge of having to know your range very well. False time lets one set up by getting close and then targeting. True time that uses the time of hand body and feet requires you to target accurately from a wider distance... you have to plan your hit so that it lands where you're going to be, not from where you are now. That's not easy when factoring in a longsword that is four feet long, as well as the length of your step!

 

[doublejabbing]

TKD training didn't really translate well in a pure boxing match for me.

 

[Ironbear24]

Spar them using only punching. No kicking. No spinning techniques. No open hand techniques. No grabbing. No throwing. No sweeping.

No fun allowed.

 

[Anuka]

When I made the switch from Muay Thai to wing chun, I found the footwork and stances in particular to be challenging.

 

[Dirty Dog]

No fun allowed.

Oh, it was plenty of fun. And good training, since there are certainly circumstances that make effective kicking, for example, problematic.