Can anybody fight like this?
- Thread starter Yoshiyahu
- Start date
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lqqy4mIunM
While I admire their athletism and their ability to entertain I actually dislke this type of 'martial arts', I find it unrealistic for fighting and self defence. It's gymnastics and more suitable for films than actually being a martial art.
While I admire their athletism and their ability to entertain I actually dislke this type of 'martial arts', I find it unrealistic for fighting and self defence. It's gymnastics and more suitable for films than actually being a martial art.
Windsinger
Green Belt
I much prefer this: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=0W1ym3yggR4
Seriously, though, tricking looks really cool, and I can't deny the athleticism and skill it takes to be able to do it. As for being useful in an SD situation... Well, maybe if your opponent is easily distracted by bright, shiny objects.
Seriously, though, tricking looks really cool, and I can't deny the athleticism and skill it takes to be able to do it. As for being useful in an SD situation... Well, maybe if your opponent is easily distracted by bright, shiny objects.
hkfuie
Purple Belt
I will crush you with my forward roll. We call it the steamroller of death.
Seriously, I would love to be able to do that stuff. But I train in martial arts instead.
I am serious that I would love to be able to do that. He is amazing. But I don't consider that martial arts. That is something created to amaze, like Cirque du Soleil.
I prefer practical martial arts.
Seriously, I would love to be able to do that stuff. But I train in martial arts instead.
I am serious that I would love to be able to do that. He is amazing. But I don't consider that martial arts. That is something created to amaze, like Cirque du Soleil.
I prefer practical martial arts.
I will crush you with my forward roll. We call it the steamroller of death.
Seriously, I would love to be able to do that stuff. But I train in martial arts instead.
I am serious that I would love to be able to do that. He is amazing. But I don't consider that martial arts. That is something created to amaze, like Cirque du Soleil.
I prefer practical martial arts.
That's how I feel.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Actually he looks a little bit like a friend of mine but I doubt it is him.
Is that useful for SD? likely no. Does that mean the guy can't fight? Likely no
If he has that much athleticism and if he also trains for combat I can only guess he is pretty effective. However if all he trains are forms like those then he is likely not all that effective a fighter.
But DAMN that was impressive to watch
Is that useful for SD? likely no. Does that mean the guy can't fight? Likely no
If he has that much athleticism and if he also trains for combat I can only guess he is pretty effective. However if all he trains are forms like those then he is likely not all that effective a fighter.
But DAMN that was impressive to watch
To answer the OP's question, "can anybody fight like this?" My answer, I've never seen anyone fight like that. Great athletes? Certainly. But to try to actually fight that way would be foolish. Heck, even Daniel Sterling ( one of XMA's most flashy kickers) wouldn't even think of throwing any of those type of kicks in an SD situation.
Sure is pretty though.
Sure is pretty though.
TheEdge883
Green Belt
Steve Terada (spelling?) rules.
Deaf Smith
Master of Arts
I think I got a hernia just watching that first movie.....
On the serious side, Bruce Lee once remarked that one does not go around LA beating up people with martial arts. He said if you did that someone is going to pull a gun out of their pocket and shoot you.
Well that super flashy stuff, if, just if you tried it, and if the other guy was not skilled, yea you might overaw them and they run. Otherwise they will pull a gun out of their pocket....
And hey, the second movie was hilarious!
Deaf
On the serious side, Bruce Lee once remarked that one does not go around LA beating up people with martial arts. He said if you did that someone is going to pull a gun out of their pocket and shoot you.
Well that super flashy stuff, if, just if you tried it, and if the other guy was not skilled, yea you might overaw them and they run. Otherwise they will pull a gun out of their pocket....
And hey, the second movie was hilarious!
Deaf
First guy... looked like he had some solid training underlying the flashy stuff. I personally didn't like the stationary way he was "fighting", but I know that's typical in certain styles.
Chloe Bruce... very talented, but more than half of that "kata" seemed more like a gymnastics floor routine than martial arts. Technique looked OK in the little bit of martial arts I saw -- but I've also seen here elsewhere, so I know she's got decent skills there.
The tricking, XMA, dramatic wushu, musical kata... all that stuff is great performance arts. The athletes doing them are HIGHLY skilled and very capable athletes. They're great performers. But what they do isn't what I do as what Brian VanCise refers to as martial science. I like that phrase; leave the "arts" to these people who want to be artistic. I try to be rational and scientific about answering the simple question: How do I most effectively prepare myself to fight for my life, and successfully apply that preparation? That answer may look so pretty... To use someone else's analogy -- it's like cars. The XMA/tricksters are in Lamborghinis or some other high end sports car. I'm a dump truck...
Chloe Bruce... very talented, but more than half of that "kata" seemed more like a gymnastics floor routine than martial arts. Technique looked OK in the little bit of martial arts I saw -- but I've also seen here elsewhere, so I know she's got decent skills there.
The tricking, XMA, dramatic wushu, musical kata... all that stuff is great performance arts. The athletes doing them are HIGHLY skilled and very capable athletes. They're great performers. But what they do isn't what I do as what Brian VanCise refers to as martial science. I like that phrase; leave the "arts" to these people who want to be artistic. I try to be rational and scientific about answering the simple question: How do I most effectively prepare myself to fight for my life, and successfully apply that preparation? That answer may look so pretty... To use someone else's analogy -- it's like cars. The XMA/tricksters are in Lamborghinis or some other high end sports car. I'm a dump truck...
MasterWright
Purple Belt
It looks flashy, I think if you stayed five feet away and waited until he got tired, Then........ BOOM !
You have a chance, I supose
You have a chance, I supose
MasterWright
Purple Belt
WOW !!! The first to masters were good but he third fellow had super human (warp) speed.I much prefer this: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=0W1ym3yggR4
Seriously, though, tricking looks really cool, and I can't deny the athleticism and skill it takes to be able to do it. As for being useful in an SD situation... Well, maybe if your opponent is easily distracted by bright, shiny objects.
I try and see the value in everything. It would be pretty cool to get out of a situation by jumping back/around like that if you found your self being backed up in defensive mode.
I think also, that jumping around would be helpful to confuse and buy time if figthing more then 1 person. Although, the energy expenditure must be huge. Impressive to say the least he can do that but it looks more for show then practicality. At the very least, he could probably get a gig in a movie.
I think also, that jumping around would be helpful to confuse and buy time if figthing more then 1 person. Although, the energy expenditure must be huge. Impressive to say the least he can do that but it looks more for show then practicality. At the very least, he could probably get a gig in a movie.
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
I know I've posted all this on another thread a while back on XMA, but what the heck...
Nothing about that first video was "martial". Artistic? Sure, definitely. Impressive? Oh, you bet it was. Effective? Uh, no.
In an SD situation, what should you be more worried about? Being impressive, or being effective? It can be argued that there is room for both aspects, but the biggest thing is going to be effectiveness.
With impressiveness, I've seen bullies and aggressors warded off by a show of athletic skill, as seen in this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXix0ygCVk0
Now, you'll notice at the very end that his technique goes right out the window, and he's just swinging haymakers, and one happens to land. But he did a pretty fair job of making the "aggressor" in the video back off of him by psyching him out.
That's the only effectiveness I can see to the whole XMA thing. Other than that, it doesn't teach anything that's effective in a real situation...however, it does help in teaching strength, speed, and flexibility.
Now, I will admit, when XMA started getting big in the mid to late 90's, I enjoyed watching it. But, after a while, it gets stale. You start to see the same flippity-flips come after the same multi-multi side kick in place....and then there's the pointless, out of place "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH"
I would much rather spend my time watching someone perform a kata, poomse, or form that has "martial" merit to it, and is more traditional.
But, to answer the OP"s question, nobody can fight like that. It just isn't going to happen...once the fight-or-flight response in your body kicks in, you aren't thinking of turning 540 triple flips in the air while sidekicking...and if you are, well, you've already lost.
In the movies, it looks great. In a tournement, it looks complicated. But in a real fight situation, it's just not effective.
Nothing about that first video was "martial". Artistic? Sure, definitely. Impressive? Oh, you bet it was. Effective? Uh, no.
In an SD situation, what should you be more worried about? Being impressive, or being effective? It can be argued that there is room for both aspects, but the biggest thing is going to be effectiveness.
With impressiveness, I've seen bullies and aggressors warded off by a show of athletic skill, as seen in this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXix0ygCVk0
Now, you'll notice at the very end that his technique goes right out the window, and he's just swinging haymakers, and one happens to land. But he did a pretty fair job of making the "aggressor" in the video back off of him by psyching him out.
That's the only effectiveness I can see to the whole XMA thing. Other than that, it doesn't teach anything that's effective in a real situation...however, it does help in teaching strength, speed, and flexibility.
Now, I will admit, when XMA started getting big in the mid to late 90's, I enjoyed watching it. But, after a while, it gets stale. You start to see the same flippity-flips come after the same multi-multi side kick in place....and then there's the pointless, out of place "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH"
I would much rather spend my time watching someone perform a kata, poomse, or form that has "martial" merit to it, and is more traditional.
But, to answer the OP"s question, nobody can fight like that. It just isn't going to happen...once the fight-or-flight response in your body kicks in, you aren't thinking of turning 540 triple flips in the air while sidekicking...and if you are, well, you've already lost.
In the movies, it looks great. In a tournement, it looks complicated. But in a real fight situation, it's just not effective.
Kwan Jang
Purple Belt
This is a performance art that requires athletic excellence and often strong martial arts basics to evolve to. How many posters here perform traditional forms? How many spar with their hands at their waist? It seems that many here assume that because the XMA guys can trick that they can't defend themselves or spar effectively. Yet, if a MMA/BJJ guy or kickboxer suggests that a TMA guy can't fight because "he wastes all his time doing worthless katas", many positions would change.
I am sure that there are more than a few examples of people out there who are into XMA that only train tricking and really don't put much emphasis on sparring or self defense training. Just as there are a few examples out there of TMA practitioners who only practice their forms and basics and neglect to chunk down the forms and practice them effectively for self defense nor spar. They just run their basics and patterns and consider themselves good martial artists. IMO, these types are basically on the same level, except at least the trickers are likely superior athletes. My guess is that the vast majority of XMA guys as well as TMA practitioners do basically the same thing: they divide up their training time into self defense, sparring, and forms work. Then they modify their techniques and application for which compartment they are working on.
We have a supplimental class at my school for "tricking" and many of the teens and young adults love it. We treat it like dessert and they have to finish their dinner first. In other words, they have to be solid on their curriculum. For us that includes TKD, Muay Thai, BJJ, and Escrima worked into a MMA format (which includes plenty of kickboxing, submission grappling, and NHB sparring). If they are training hard on this and want to come into the tricking class on Saturday morning or stay after class an extra hour on a weeknight and trick, it's fine with me. The ones who do this are mostly among the best fighters (at least for their age) in the school. They'll often work their traditional forms in the same sessions, too. We have a rule that they must attend a minimum of two regular classes a week to attend the tricking class, but this is rarely an issue. From my experience, the kids who want to put the work into this are the ones who want to live at the school anyways with very few exceptions.
When Cung Le wins a MMA fight, he likes to do his signature back flip in celebration. You may notice that he does not try to pull this, a webster or a flashkick against his opponent during the fight. OTOH, the practice he did to get his backflip down did nothing to take away from his ability or effectiveness as a fighter either in san shou or mma. In fact, it might be interesting to note that he is the fighter with the most varied striking arsenal in MMA history and so far has been quite effective with it.
I am sure that there are more than a few examples of people out there who are into XMA that only train tricking and really don't put much emphasis on sparring or self defense training. Just as there are a few examples out there of TMA practitioners who only practice their forms and basics and neglect to chunk down the forms and practice them effectively for self defense nor spar. They just run their basics and patterns and consider themselves good martial artists. IMO, these types are basically on the same level, except at least the trickers are likely superior athletes. My guess is that the vast majority of XMA guys as well as TMA practitioners do basically the same thing: they divide up their training time into self defense, sparring, and forms work. Then they modify their techniques and application for which compartment they are working on.
We have a supplimental class at my school for "tricking" and many of the teens and young adults love it. We treat it like dessert and they have to finish their dinner first. In other words, they have to be solid on their curriculum. For us that includes TKD, Muay Thai, BJJ, and Escrima worked into a MMA format (which includes plenty of kickboxing, submission grappling, and NHB sparring). If they are training hard on this and want to come into the tricking class on Saturday morning or stay after class an extra hour on a weeknight and trick, it's fine with me. The ones who do this are mostly among the best fighters (at least for their age) in the school. They'll often work their traditional forms in the same sessions, too. We have a rule that they must attend a minimum of two regular classes a week to attend the tricking class, but this is rarely an issue. From my experience, the kids who want to put the work into this are the ones who want to live at the school anyways with very few exceptions.
When Cung Le wins a MMA fight, he likes to do his signature back flip in celebration. You may notice that he does not try to pull this, a webster or a flashkick against his opponent during the fight. OTOH, the practice he did to get his backflip down did nothing to take away from his ability or effectiveness as a fighter either in san shou or mma. In fact, it might be interesting to note that he is the fighter with the most varied striking arsenal in MMA history and so far has been quite effective with it.
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BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
You are correct 100%.
But if you read the title of the thread, it's listed as "can anybody fight like this?"
It's not a question about the person in the video directly, rather, it's a question of the performance of the person in the video. The OP is calling into question using the XMA style in a fight, rather than the person doing the XMA form.
The person in the video may actually be an awesome TMAist and MMaist, but that's not what is demonstrated in the video.
Personally, I feel the same about people who practice XMA as I do about people who train for sport TKD: as long as they know that what they're doing is not to be relied on for SD purposes, then go ahead and have fun with it. I have talked with people who were involved in XMA that claimed that they could turn flips in a real fight and make it effective...those are the people that I worry about. But as long as they know that XMA is not a "martial" art, then have fun.
On a side note, I'm a fan of Cung Le.
