Two Styles of Sparring?

TX_BB

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Kane said:
But will training under more traditional TKD still help prepare me for Olympic style TKD? If traditional is more tougher and more full contact than olympic style, I still rather do that but will it still prepare for TKD tournaments olympic style as well?

Let's cut to the chase, practicing any TKD is better than nothing. If what you are looking for is Olympic style TKD train in Olympic style TKD. It's kind of like playing softball and then playing hardball. It's still baseball just with different twists, timing and rules.
 

MichiganTKD

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Practicing traditional style will strengthen your body enough to allow your techniques to have some power behind them, rather than slapping someone with your foot. If you only practice Olympic-style, you might have speed, but no real power behind your technique.
 

TX_BB

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MichiganTKD said:
If you only practice Olympic-style, you might have speed, but no real power behind your technique.
That's just a bad assumption and I do mean assumption. I basicaly have only practiced WTF/Olympic style TKD and seem to generate power just fine. Some of the competitiors I referee would probably disagree with you too but, that's probably why their competing for national spots.

I don't disagree that if this person was 14 or 15 and wanted to get into the sport your method would be valid, but this individual is already in college if they have a gift, why not let them explore it. If they love the art there is still plenty of time to explore all options. I'd think a motivated college student would do fine at Master Koubassi's, Kil's, Rose's, Shinn's, Southwick's...
 

FearlessFreep

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Try this, you only get one point for a body shot wheather it's 80% or 100% of power. The time that it takes to deliver the other 20% is what top competitors reclaim to fire the next shot or evade the next attack. Since most top players can't deliver one shot - one knock-out, most play the percentages shots to the body and evade.

To continue my curiosity....I can see the point of an 80% shot versus a %100 shot if the 100% shot is slower by enough to matter, but...is that the case, or should it be?

In a simplistic case, F=MA. Force equals mass times acceleration. It seems to me that generting power in a strike is done through both factors. There are foot pivot movements you can use to get more mass into an attack. For example, a sidekick done with pivot on the plant foot will move the body forward a few inches and if timed properly will give the attack the mass of the whole body rather than just the strength of the extending leg. The other side of the equation is Accleration, which in this case means how fast are you hitting the target, or rather, how fast the weapon is hitting the target at point of impact.

Without going into the biomechanics of fast striking, it seems to me that the 80% versus 100% difference in attack power comes down to two things. One is speed of attack, the other is depth of attack. It seems to me that from just a strike power point of view, your most powerful attack is going to be your fastest attack. Or conversely, the faster the weapon is moving at point of impact the more power the strike will have. The other side is the depth or penetration level of the attack. If you aim for the surface, you will hit the surface; if you aim for six inches of depth, you will hit the surface...much harder.

It seems to me that if you want to hit hard, you hit fast. Hitting at 80% power is no quicker than at 100% power in terms of just how fast the weapon is moving at impact.

So...does hitting for six inches of penetration cause you to be slower then hitting at 1 or 2 inches or at surface level?

Or, is there are tradeoff. If hitting shallow is faster than hitting deep, how much faster? Hitting deep will probably occupy your opponent...enough to offset the difference in time?

I guess I'm curious..or maybe hoping..that if you train to kick with 100% power and you spar like that, it can be effective in plympic style sparring. Kicking 1-2 inches may be common, but is it really neccessary?
 

TX_BB

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Freep,

Sorry, to confuse you power and force are not the same. Force is equivalent to mass times acceleration whereas, power is work/unit time. I was talking about power. By definition you increase contact time to transfer power to the opponent remember, the hogu and pads are working to absorp this power by disperssing the power throughout the hogu.

You actually learned what many students can't get throgh their heads with you second statement about the supporting leg. In tournament fighting you're retraction of the foot is equally important to start either the next technique or evasion.

If you'd like to conduct a power versus speed experiment use your roundhouse on a standing bag and for 60 seconds count the kicks. Try the same exercise with a back leg roundhouse and count. Most of the upper belt kids in our classes kick from 100 to 110 kicks per minute with the rouundhouse, they kick around 60 kicks per minute with the side kick. Go ahead and verify this for yourself.

It comes down to a strategy wheather you give up speed of execution for power each instructor has his or her own theories. South American players tend to hit heavy. The Korean players seem to be more technichal, American players vary much.
 

Miles

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TX_BB said:
I'd think a motivated college student would do fine at Master Koubassi's, Kil's, Rose's, Shinn's, Southwick's...
Yes, TX BB, though I'd personally steer the motivated college student to particular members of this esteemed group. :)

Miles
 
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Kane

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TX_BB said:
No, ITF

WTF video see http://www.sc-tkd.com/

Hope this helps.
Whoa do they ever punch in WTF? I saw virtually no hand strikes in WTF. ITF seemed to have a lot more hand strikes. Is ITF more traditional?
 

DuneViking

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To continue the physics discussion, I would simply say this, less Energy expended, more Energy saved. Since hitting harder uses more energy, hitting softer (or shallower) saves a proportional amount of energy for later use. Simple.
 

FearlessFreep

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Since hitting harder uses more energy, hitting softer (or shallower) saves a proportional amount of energy for later use. Simple.

Which is I guess a big tactical difference between sparring and fighting. Sparring is paced for several 2 minute rounds with a minute break. Fighting...you hope it's over in a few seconds.
 

Han-Mi

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Might want to find a new school to train at where you can get some good hard contact sparring in. As for "full contact, traditional" tkd that the college is doing, that is actually just olympic style, in which you are not allowed to punch to the head and you have to wear a bulky chest protector. I hate those things, but I'll tell ya, those guys can kick, and it takes a lot of stamina. I am slightly offended when people describe olympic TKD as traditional TKD, because they are not the same, and should be egarded as such. I tried olympic style for a while, and it was fun, but I kept getting in trouble for punching to the head.

What'd they want me to do, their hands were down at their sides.
 

TX_BB

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DuneViking said:
To continue the physics discussion, I would simply say this, less Energy expended, more Energy saved. Since hitting harder uses more energy, hitting softer (or shallower) saves a proportional amount of energy for later use. Simple.
Is that how Korea explained it to Egypt in the Olympic heavy weight finals?

I'd say it would be just a difference in philosophies of when the best time to use that energy occurred.
 
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