Calling Somebody's Dojo A McDojo Is Offensive

[Wing Woo Gar]

Oh just curious. Come visit sometime, bring Xue and Crane with you.

And Jow Ga Wolf too.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I also have a mystery cousin

My wife has a musteriouscosinin Beijing...... no one knows what he does for a living..and everyone is afraid to ask him...the speculation is he works for the government...spy, secret police, special forces something along those lines....all they know for sure is several years ago three guys were beating up my future brother-in-law (who was a weight lifter then - see "How Effective is Bodybuilding For Self Defence?)
and this mysterious cousin walked in the middle, dropped all three guys in a second (no weapon, just hands and feet) and calmly escorted my future brother-in-law out of there

 

[dvcochran]

If anything I would think it would make it easier for good schools to operate. When students at McDojos lose badly in tournaments to students at good schools, and they will lose badly if they're going to MdDojos, then people will see just how much better the good schools are and go there instead.

IF they are going to open tournaments. Very often everything is closed circuit, even the tournaments.
Kids especially fall into the category and honestly I do not think it is as big a deal for them. All too often, hings like pressure testing just do not carry as much weight for kids. Not necessarily a bad thing in good, reasonable measure.

 

[frank raud]

Well how about if their dojo doesn't tick off every box to qualify it for being a McDojo? Lets say for instance, if people are calling your dojo a McDojo for no other reason that students can sign up and test for rank promotion at their own discretion whenever they're running a test? Im not saying students will always pass, but that they can sign up and test if they want to, which means they might pass or they might fail.

Congratulations. You manage to avoid answering my question.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

And Jow Ga Wolf too.

And simon

 

[PhotonGuy]

No, the problem is when you allow your self-worth to be based on outside opinions.

Im not talking about my self worth Im talking about the worth of a dojo that I choose to train at.

 

[PhotonGuy]

If someone calls you a Wonderful Human Being, but they mean for it to be insulting (sarcastic or snarky), then you will probably be insulted. At least, I wouldn't be surprised if you were, and neither should they. If someone calls you a big jerk, but they mean it as a term of endearment, you will probably not be insulted.

Point is, what is being said matters way less than what is intended. If you say something (even nice things) but mean to be offensive, you probably shouldn't be surprised if the person is offended.

There's also a little bit of an ownership thing here, too. The old thing where someone insults your family member, and they say, "Hey, you call him a jerk all the time. Why are you upset?" "He's my brother. Only I can call him a jerk."

So, there might be a little bit of, "You can't call my school a McDojo. It's my school, and only I can call it a McDojo."

That's all fine and dandy when somebody is saying stuff to you out loud but on internet forums such as this one we don't communicate by talking out loud we communicate in writing. Sarcasm, and other instances when you don't mean literally what you say (and might even mean the opposite of what you say as you point out) is easy enough to notice when people are talking out loud but its not so obvious when done in writing. That being the case its not so obvious on internet forums (such as this one.)

 

[PhotonGuy]

IF they are going to open tournaments. Very often everything is closed circuit, even the tournaments.
Kids especially fall into the category and honestly I do not think it is as big a deal for them. All too often, hings like pressure testing just do not carry as much weight for kids. Not necessarily a bad thing in good, reasonable measure.

Alright well there is also the issue of students being able to defend themselves in real life confrontations on the street, in school, ect. If a dojo produces students who can defend themselves then you know its a good dojo, if they produce students who routinely get pounded in confrontations, then you know they're a McDojo.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Congratulations. You manage to avoid answering my question.

You mean your question about whether or not a dojo ticks off every box in the definition of a McDojo. Before I can answer that you would have to provide the list for me of the characteristics that a dojo would have to meet for it to be a McDojo. Such a list can vary.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Alright well there is also the issue of students being able to defend themselves in real life confrontations on the street, in school, ect. If a dojo produces students who can defend themselves then you know its a good dojo, if they produce students who routinely get pounded in confrontations, then you know they're a McDojo.

Most dojos have few students who are in situations where they are likely to get pounded, with or without training, so it's difficult to judge the training from that. The best you can hope for is feedback from people who use their training regularly (LEO, bouncers, jailers, etc.).

 

[frank raud]

You mean your question about whether or not a dojo ticks off every box in the definition of a McDojo. Before I can answer that you would have to provide the list for me of the characteristics that a dojo would have to meet for it to be a McDojo. Such a list can vary.

Congratulations. You managed to avoid answering the question again. Your list will probably be different than mine. So if I list everything I think makes a place a McDojo and you don't agree with everything on my list, is it or is it not a McDojo? Rather than trying to obsfuscate, try a simple approach. If a place is in fact a McDojo( by whatever definition you define), is it an insult to call it by name ?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Im not talking about my self worth Im talking about the worth of a dojo that I choose to train at.

Dojos don't have feelings to hurt. You cannot insult a building.

 

[Flying Crane]

Congratulations. You managed to avoid answering the question again. Your list will probably be different than mine. So if I list everything I think makes a place a McDojo and you don't agree with everything on my list, is it or is it not a McDojo? Rather than trying to obsfuscate, try a simple approach. If a place is in fact a McDojo( by whatever definition you define), is it an insult to call it by name ?

Ok, so what if your school happens to perfectly match my criteria for the definition of a McDojo? Does that make it so? Is it an insult if I come on here and insist that your school is the crappiest McDojo to ever open its doors? If I shout it loud and clear from the mountaintops?

Is your school a McDojo? What if I insist that it is?

 

[Xue Sheng]

My wife has a musteriouscosinin Beijing...... no one knows what he does for a living..and everyone is afraid to ask him...the speculation is he works for the government...spy, secret police, special forces something along those lines....all they know for sure is several years ago three guys were beating up my future brother-in-law (who was a weight lifter then - see "How Effective is Bodybuilding For Self Defence?)
and this mysterious cousin walked in the middle, dropped all three guys in a second (no weapon, just hands and feet) and calmly escorted my future brother-in-law out of there

Wow, I need to proof read more "musteriouscosinin" = "Mysterious cousin in"

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Congratulations. You managed to avoid answering the question again. Your list will probably be different than mine. So if I list everything I think makes a place a McDojo and you don't agree with everything on my list, is it or is it not a McDojo? Rather than trying to obsfuscate, try a simple approach. If a place is in fact a McDojo( by whatever definition you define), is it an insult to call it by name ?

I think this gets into the nature of what an insult is. If you are short, and I call you short, is that an insult? It probably depends on my intent (which I think someone has said earlier). There are terms which are inherently insulting: if you call me ugly, that's an insult (and a damned lie!!).

I've never heard the term "McDojo" used in a neutral or positive sense. It's always at least mildly derogatory, so far as I can tell. So the term appears to be inherently insulting. Of course, it's always possible I tell someone "Your dojo is a complete McDojo, because you do X." They may agree that X happens there, but disagree that it's a problem. I have met at least one person who would term any school using kata as a "McDojo" (with no apparent tie to the origins of that term). If he said that about my program, I'd simply shrug it off, because I don't see the existence of kata as an inherent problem. So if that's his only criteria, his term is meaningless to me. It's about like someone saying "That car model only comes in AWD, and AWD is complete crap, so that car is complete crap." Since I don't agree with the premise, his conclusion lacks any merit to me.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Wow, I need to proof read more "musteriouscosinin" = "Mysterious cousin in"

I honestly thought you did it on purpose.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Wow, I need to proof read more "musteriouscosinin" = "Mysterious cousin in"

I enjoyed hearing it in my head with those words rushed together. Somehow, it sounded more ominous.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Dojos don't have feelings to hurt. You cannot insult a building.

How about a stop sign? Because I saw someone berating one this morning.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Congratulations. You managed to avoid answering the question again. Your list will probably be different than mine. So if I list everything I think makes a place a McDojo and you don't agree with everything on my list, is it or is it not a McDojo? Rather than trying to obsfuscate, try a simple approach. If a place is in fact a McDojo( by whatever definition you define), is it an insult to call it by name ?

Why do you keep congratulating me?

And I can't answer a question that's unanswerable.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Dojos don't have feelings to hurt. You cannot insult a building.

No but you can insult the person in charge of the dojo, the chief instructor. When you call a dojo a McDojo that's an insult to the chief instructor.