Calling Somebody's Dojo A McDojo Is Offensive

Wing Woo Gar

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Well, "everyone" should imply "reasonable adults." As the person you're describing doesn't appear to be one.

If someone says "fries are potatoes, and potatoes are vegetables;" they either know better and are using tongue-in-cheek justification to eat fries, or they probably rode the short bus.

The other thing to consider is the fact that McDonald's has never said that its food was healthy, nor have they ever marketed their food towards the health conscious.

Agreed. But we can't say that the practices were deceptive.
To a point. We arent all educated. McDonalds is everywhere. Coca Cola is everywhere. Children are everywhere. What is in McDonalds? Toys, slides, playgrounds, cartoon characters. What do the pictures of the food look like compared to what you unwrap in the car? Just saying. Not entirely transparent or honest. Not that that is my expectation. Its far more important that we get honesty in martial arts. I personally dont believe in 6 week womens self defense courses unless they are teaching awareness and how to run/ escape. I also dont believe that a 12 year old black belt is the equal of a grown man with bad intention. There may be exceptions, Im sure of it, but in general lots of people think they know what they are consuming. Much to @Steves point.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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It's never about the style, my friend. Some styles just tend to cook better food than others. When I worked at McD's in high school (in the 80s), we made some damn good food after the restaurant closed. It's not fish... it's how you cook it that matters. :D

Look at it like this. Gerry has been very open about some of the problems he's seen in aikido. @JowGaWolf has been open about some of the problems he's seen in jow ga. You've talked about some of those issues, as well. And all three of you appear to be trying to address the issues in some way.

Personally, and sorry for another analogy, but this is like someone saying, "Hey, I'm the only one who calls my brother a dingbat!"
See there, when you say its never about style, its just that some styles cook better. That sounds like when a southern person says bless his heart. That really means eff him, he sucks. It is the very definition of style vs style talk. I dont care much for French food that I have had. I sure there is a French Chef somewhere that could make me eat my words and love the taste. As far as you calling my brother a dingbat, Im good with it if you can prove you arent one too. All styles have different issues and everything has a counter. I personally like some brown sugar and butter on my oatmeal, but I eschew the very idea of adding raisins, and I find walnuts abhorrent. Where we differ is that you think the methods are objectively measurable, I, on the other hand, believe in the Chef as an individual and subjective talent. For example, Boxing in and of itself may not be the best method objectively speaking, but Mike Tyson as an individual talent could certainly make a believer out of most of us. It really is unimportant except in the moment. I see your point completely, and I believe you see mine too.
 

Steve

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See there, when you say its never about style, its just that some styles cook better. That sounds like when a southern person says bless his heart. That really means eff him, he sucks. It is the very definition of style vs style talk. I dont care much for French food that I have had. I sure there is a French Chef somewhere that could make me eat my words and love the taste. As far as you calling my brother a dingbat, Im good with it if you can prove you arent one too. All styles have different issues and everything has a counter. I personally like some brown sugar and butter on my oatmeal, but I eschew the very idea of adding raisins, and I find walnuts abhorrent. Where we differ is that you think the methods are objectively measurable, I, on the other hand, believe in the Chef as an individual and subjective talent. For example, Boxing in and of itself may not be the best method objectively speaking, but Mike Tyson as an individual talent could certainly make a believer out of most of us. It really is unimportant except in the moment. I see your point completely, and I believe you see mine too.
To be more specific, it's not about the style, it's about how the style is trained and ultimately, what application looks like. It's not the style... because I think regardless of the style, if you train practically and apply the skills, you will see good results... and actual progress toward expertise. As I've said many times, this is true for literally every human activity. Martial arts is just the only example I can think of in all of human existence where people routinely try to build expertise in one skillset by practicing and applying another.

So when I say that it's never about the style, I mean that literally. It's never about the style. It's about the training model and application. Sometimes, the training model of a style just generally sucks. But individuals within that style can modify their training approach, apply the techniques in different ways, and develop real skill.

Back to the food analogy above. If you have only ever had a frozen, rectangular, breaded filet-0-fish patty, but it's served in a very fancy plate, you may not recognize good fish when you see it. And I think we can take the analogy even further... when you are given a really good plate of fresh, wild caught fish prepared well... you may not like it. You may get the real thing and think, "I prefer the filet-o-fish." That's how some people react when they think about the physical challenge of actually trying to make martial arts work.
 

Steve

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Im fine thanks. Sometimes you are hard to decipher. But then, I have had a lot of traumatic head injuries. Maybe I just prefer my cooking to the unknown @Steve recipe. That said, Im always willing to try anything someone will offer me. Again, Im not mad or offended. I just like some spirited talk. Spices.
Me too. Anyway. I hope that answers everything. Im Im going to bow out as this is stuff Ive said before.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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To be more specific, it's not about the style, it's about how the style is trained and ultimately, what application looks like. It's not the style... because I think regardless of the style, if you train practically and apply the skills, you will see good results... and actual progress toward expertise. As I've said many times, this is true for literally every human activity. Martial arts is just the only example I can think of in all of human existence where people routinely try to build expertise in one skillset by practicing and applying another.

So when I say that it's never about the style, I mean that literally. It's never about the style. It's about the training model and application. Sometimes, the training model of a style just generally sucks. But individuals within that style can modify their training approach, apply the techniques in different ways, and develop real skill.

Back to the food analogy above. If you have only ever had a frozen, rectangular, breaded filet-0-fish patty, but it's served in a very fancy plate, you may not recognize good fish when you see it. And I think we can take the analogy even further... when you are given a really good plate of fresh, wild caught fish prepared well... you may not like it. You may get the real thing and think, "I prefer the filet-o-fish." That's how some people react when they think about the physical challenge of actually trying to make martial arts work.
Thats really well articulated here Steve! Great post.
 
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PhotonGuy

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The YMCA has their membership fees, sure.
So students still have to pay for the lessons when they pay their membership fees even though you're not getting paid to teach. That's what I was wondering about, if the lessons were free. They're not.
You're confused, I clarify and ask if you're still confused, and that's rude?

Yammering on, saying the same thing 1,874,635 times could be considered rude too, I guess.
Sigh, never mind.
 
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PhotonGuy

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They also thought anything made from plants was a vegetable, like French fries and the lettuce on their Big Mac.
French fries are vegetables, they're made from potatoes, which are vegetables. Lettuce is also a vegetable. The only food made from plants that isn't a vegetable is fruits, which are made up of the reproductive parts of the plant.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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French fries are vegetables, they're made from potatoes, which are vegetables. Lettuce is also a vegetable. The only food made from plants that isn't a vegetable is fruits, which are made up of the reproductive parts of the plant.
Sure, ok strictly speaking, No need to unwrap the burger, its wrapped in vegetables.
 

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