Bullying in Schools

[drunken mistress]

I got my son into karate eighteen months ago because of bullying problems. It solved them in that school plus he really enjoys the karate. Now, however, in a new school, the problem has arisen again. Teachers in Spain are really bad at dealing with bullying and expect pupils to slug it out. My son is getting afraid to go to school now because the boy is bigger and stronger and kicks and punches really hard. Hitting back just hasn´t worked in this case. ANyone got any ideas?

 

[MJS]

I would start off by talking to someone at the school. Your child should not be going to school everyday, with the fear of getting hit/into a fight!!! Getting into a fight, does not always solve the problem and it certian should not be looked at as the solution!

Mike

 

[Lisa]

I would start off by talking to someone at the school. Your child should not be going to school everyday, with the fear of getting hit/into a fight!!! Getting into a fight, does not always solve the problem and it certian should not be looked at as the solution!

Mike

Agreed!

Talk with the administration and force them to deal with the situation. Become the irrate parent if you have to but do everything you can to protect your child. Go to other parents and see if their children are having the same issues and see the administration together. If there are enough complaints then something will have to be done. Condoning the "fight it out and it will be fixed" attitude is just wrong.

 

[drunken mistress]

Believe me I went down that road in the previous school and it didn´t work. I wrote 8 letters to the headmaster and saw him several times in person and all in Spanish which is not my native language. I lined up witnesses galore and the head just said that they might be lying as they were friends of my son. In the end only counter-violence worked.

 

[MJS]

WOW! It certianly does not say much, IMO, for the school there! I wonder if this guy would have a change of heart if someone brought a gun to school and started shooting people!

Mike

 

[Lisa]

Believe me I went down that road in the previous school and it didn´t work. I wrote 8 letters to the headmaster and saw him several times in person and all in Spanish which is not my native language. I lined up witnesses galore and the head just said that they might be lying as they were friends of my son. In the end only counter-violence worked.

That is horrible that you and your child went through all of that. But perhaps with this being another school, the administration has a different approach. I certainly understand your frustration in all of this but I would still try and explore all other avenues before resorting to counter-violence. It sounds to me from your posts that you want to avoid this too.

 

[terryl965]

First off I personally do not believe in volence, But after what you have said the only way to deal with it is leave the school or put the kid in his place I.E. a goin shot that brings the testical to the throat. A chop to the throat or a kick to the side of the knee that would break the knee in half, all voilet I know. Sometimes in life you have no chance and you have to do what you don't want to. Please try and talk and as a last result hurt, hurt and hurt.

 

[MJS]

I just find it hard to believe that this school would approve of someone causing some potential serious damage to another student, just because they're being picked on. I mean, does everyone there have the same thought process, meaning that if a parent sends their child to school and he comes home with teeth missing, a broken arm/leg, poked out eye, etc. that this will all be accepted? :idunno: Maybe I'm reading into this wrong, but its certianly the impression that I'm getting.

Mike

 

[drunken mistress]

I think violence of that kind probably is the only answer. We tried everything else in the last school for months. This headmaster may be a little better but the problem is that the Spanish are over-tolerant to anything that kids do. Two boys that tried to cut off a kid´s finger in my son´s class simply got kept in at break afterwards. There is no system of appropriate punishment for kids. In theory children could have to see a psychiatrist or be suspended for a few days but this hardly ever happens except for something incredibly serious like attempted rape of a teacher. Spanish law is also very tolerant to kids. A neighbour´s child was raped, sodomised and murdered by a boy of 14 who used to attend my son´s former school. All that Spanish law was able to give him was 4 years in a detention centre. If he had been a few months younger they couldn´t have given him a custodial sentence at all, I was told!

 

[MJS]

Well, sadly, it appears that you only have 2 options:

1- Tell your child to do what he has to do to survive, and be prepared to accept the end results.

2- Move

IMO, I'd go with option 2.

Mike

 

[Corporal Hicks]

IMO I dont think Karate (Not starting something) is the best art for your child to learn. If you can try to get him to learn something more RBSD. Then pratice with him and get him to learn those moves, learn moves that deal with quicker, stronger people. I mean a horse stance isnt really going to get your child anywhere.

But first as they say only use this as a last resort. Violence is not the answer. If not bring the police into it, your child is being assaulted and it is a serious issue, or are spanish police not that good, or good enough or have enough time to deal with something like this?

Violence is not the answer!

Regards

P.S I'm not having a go at Karate Ok!

 

[MA-Caver]

It would seem that resorting to violence or counter-violence is the only option you have besides moving. That's a pain for sure because your son would have to go through it all again at another school system elsewhere. If this is SOP in Spain then it says alot about the country's values when it comes to their children.
Diplomacy is the first weapon, kicking *** is the last one.
If moving isn't an option (job/career/etc.) then are there no other schools nearby for your son to alternately go to?
Another option is like what they do here in Utah (for their own reasons)... and that is to "home-school" their kids. I don't think that Spain has that program, but if they do, it's a means to an end of the violence towards your son. At least he's in a safe environment (home) and free of distractions like someone wanting to beat his *** or cut his fingers off.
The amount of education is basically the same and probably even more because he's not having to resort to whatever pace the school cirriculum sets and he can go at his own speed, and studies show that many excel because of the pace that kids are comfortable with and their enthusiasm for studying is higher.
What does your son's MA instructor feel about it? What belt is he (son) anyway out of curiosity? When you moved did you have to find another karate school or is your son's instruction at a halt?

You did IMO a wise thing sending him to karate so he could better defend himself. I'm sure he's grateful to you for it.
Sounds like to me that you've been making all the right choices so far and are doing everything that you can possibly think of. If this is any consolation ... you're a good parent. IMO :asian:

 

[Danjo]

See if you can get him into Brazillian Jiu Jiutsu. If the other kids like to kick and punch, teaching yours to clinch, takedown, and choke out, or arm bar the other kid might work fairly well. Besides, in BJJ, you get to roll and get the feel for it pretty fast. Talk to the instructor and tell him your kid needs to learn to defend himself pretty quickly because of what is happening at school. At several BJJ schools, the first few weeks are dedicated soley to self defense.

 

[drunken mistress]

My son and I both still do karate and love it. We are on our third teacher and third style - not for change´s sake but the first emigrated, the second wouldn´t grade, etc. My son only graded with the first teacher so he´s just yellow belt tabs but way better in level of accomplishment. He should grade in his new style soon. He really has a talent for it. We are now doing Kyokushinkai karate - very tough. For the first time we are doing it in SPanish. I think I may ask his teacher for advice as he is a good guy with a social conscience. I would hate to shift my son from this school as he is doing incredibly well there educationally - fantastic report.

 

[Danjo]

My son and I both still do karate and love it. We are on our third teacher and third style - not for change´s sake but the first emigrated, the second wouldn´t grade, etc. My son only graded with the first teacher so he´s just yellow belt tabs but way better in level of accomplishment. He should grade in his new style soon. He really has a talent for it. We are now doing Kyokushinkai karate - very tough. For the first time we are doing it in SPanish. I think I may ask his teacher for advice as he is a good guy with a social conscience. I would hate to shift my son from this school as he is doing incredibly well there educationally - fantastic report.

I understand, but that is a totally different goal than learning to defend onself. Getting belts is nice, but if your getting your lunch money stolen, your going to have to tighten that pretty belt a bit tighter until you can figure out how to stop that from happening.

 

[kenpo_guy]

There is safety in numbers. I am sure if your child is being bullied, other children are too. Tell your child if he sees this bully doing the same to other kids, have them organize and stand up for each other. If one kid gets beat up, 3 more go and get him. It may not be the best solution, it may seem cheap and unfair, but so is beating up people smaller than you.


I don't know how things work in Spain, but most states in the US allow you to reasonably defend yourself by whatever means necessary. If you are a small guy say 5'7" and 130lbs, and are attacked by a 6'8" 250lb guy, by the law that could warrent the use of deadly force. My point, like stated above, tell your child to do whatever is necessary to protect himself. If the bully sees that he is serious about stopping him, the bullying may stop. Sometimes you just have to make a stand, even if it is scarry or you may get in trouble. I think there was a phrase used by Ed Parker that says something like. "Fair play is when your definition of fair matches that of your opponent". In other words, when it comes to a defending yourself there is no such thing as fighting fair.

 

[psi_radar]

I wouldn't advocate the use of extreme force--breaking bones, kneecaps, etc. These kids are kids, after all, evil as they might seem. I would get irrefutable proof such as videotape of what's going on and take it to the school board. I'm not familiar with Spain's legal system, but I assume the school must be liable to at least some degree for your son's safety--use the legal system to your advantage. Also, I don't know what your financial situation is, but you might like to consider private school.

I also agree with Danjo. Grappling arts are good for kids since the fights are typically duel-type scenarios, so you don't have to worry as much about getting kicked while you're down. I was bullied as a child so I know exactly what your son is going through. In most cases, once you fight back against a bully, they'll leave you alone (the triangle choke was my favorite and most trusted maneuver). Only once did the bully continue to be more persistent, so I went on the offensive--made his life hell ambushing him and such and we eventually agreed to leave each other alone. That's a desperate scenario that can escalate easily, though.

 

[Zepp]

WOW!

This thread has definitely knocked my respect for the Spanish down a few notches.

I second the videotape idea. If the school officials refuse to act then, you should speak with a lawyer about legal options against the school and the parents of the bullies. I don't know much about Spain's civil law, but I'm pretty sure they have some system in place for suing someone who deliberately harms you.

The only other options I see (besides moving, which you seem to have ruled out) are:

b.) Your boy cause grave bodily harm or death to one of the bullies,

c.) Your boy carries a weapon with him and uses it to cause grave bodily harm or death to one of the bullies,

d.) You (and maybe an adult freind of yours as well) approach the bullies and beat the living crap out them yourself.

So, yeah, try the videotape and look at legal options. Or move. I hope things work out for your son.

 

[MA-Caver]

WOW!

This thread has definitely knocked my respect for the Spanish down a few notches.

I second the videotape idea. If the school officials refuse to act then, you should speak with a lawyer about legal options against the school and the parents of the bullies. I don't know much about Spain's civil law, but I'm pretty sure they have some system in place for suing someone who deliberately harms you.

The only other options I see (besides moving, which you seem to have ruled out) are:

b.) Your boy cause grave bodily harm or death to one of the bullies,

c.) Your boy carries a weapon with him and uses it to cause grave bodily harm or death to one of the bullies,

d.) You (and maybe an adult freind of yours as well) approach the bullies and beat the living crap out them yourself.

So, yeah, try the videotape and look at legal options. Or move. I hope things work out for your son.

I disagree totally with the use of weapons. As the boy is progressing in his Karate studies he is slowly honing his whole body into a weapon. This is the same with any of the Martial Arts we individually study. Bringing a weapon will in the bullies eyes, make the boy seem weak and ineffectual.
I've known a few europeans and they're (playfully) aggressive to a fault. Two guys fooling around and getting rough is just "man's play" and venting excess testosterone. The same principles apply in school aged kids. It's not always about power and domination nor intimidation. In some ways it's a means to build respect from other students. The thick skulled thinking of "hey, he can take it, he's tough enough.Ergo, I like him."
The irony of it all might be that he'll make friends with the same guys that picked on him later. Especially if he fights back, because he's not a wimp, a sissy, a loser.
Fighting back on their terms is ONE of the best ways to deal with bullies. I've had to put up with these punks during my years at school and for a while my older brother (a well known fighter ... in our school) usually retailated against the bully until I started fighting back myself and wow... the b*stards left me pretty much alone. I wasn't easy prey anymore. When I started MA (whish it was a lot sooner) then I was really left alone and have managed to get myself out of some potentially serious situations.
I don't like (real) violence but will use it if I'm forced to. At that young age learning a "hard-art" seems to be the way to go. He'll learn discipline to where he'll hurt the kid back but not incapacitate him by breaking a leg, kneecap or anything else. He'll be able to strike and cause pain and pain usually always makes bullies back down, not 100% of the time but a good percentage.
The lad will have the discipline not to break or maim. Just do enough to make the bully realise: "hey, if I keep this up... I'm gonna get fubar-ed".
I'm only speaking however from the AMERICAN bully experience. The intent of a EURO bully could be radically different.
The boy could do well to try and find out exactly why this is occurring. If it's nothing more than testosteroned big-weiner waving then there's nothing much to do about it except knock that weiner down to size with a few well placed punches (and kicks) to the ego behind the weiner.
Good luck to the lad.

 

[drunken mistress]

I would certainly never provide him with a weapon. I have my doubts about them for adults let alone kids. As the other kid is slightly stronger he´d probably take it and use it anyway. I live in a weird multicultural environment. Many other nations are moving to Southern Spain for the fantastic climate and also for other reasons. There´s a large criminal element because money can be laundered in Spanish property very easily. Some of the non-Spanish kids in schools come literally from Russian Mafia or English gangster families. They have grown up with violence as a way of life. In my son´s last school he was bullied by the English and the Russians. He is only eight now but one English boy held glass to his throat when he was 6! He won respect from two very violent Russians by kicking them in the head. For the first time it´s a Spanish boy! He has hit him back quite a few times which in the past worked but this particular boy doesn´t seem to be backing down which is a problem. There are private schools here but they don´t seem to be free from the bullying problems principally because they are full of English kids from bad backgrounds. The education is really bad in them too. Apart from the bullying problems the state education in Spain is really good. I shall just have to see how things go from day to day. My thanks to everyone for their thoughts.