My son slowly losing interest in competition and sports MA.

[Happy-Papi]

Recently I saw some signs that my son is slowly losing interest in competition and sports MA. He is 16 and have a black belt in Judo and and two black belts from me on CQC-FMA and is now doing Karate (full contact). Before he often joins competitions but nowadays seems to be passing a lot on the compes. He still goes from dojo to dojo to have fun but doesn't compete. I had a long talk with him and found out that he is skipping tournaments because he finds the rules restrictive and are not much useful for street fighting. He has been in several street fights and based on the reports that I got from his buddies and some from his school teachers that he really was effective but a bit brutal. Got a report from his friend how he pinned 3 older teens who were asking money (bullying) and how he sent them all crashing to the ground while being twisted. I also heard how he covered for a young girl who were being followed by two mature pervs and made their faces plow the ground. My son doesn't like talking about his fun experiences maybe because I'm his dad and he really hates bragging but since we are frequently visited by his friends, I do get reports from them. There are quite a bit but one of my favorite was when a group of older/larger punks came to our house to bully him on a fight. All 4 got their behind thrown to the creek beside my house and so were their bicycles. It was quite a high fall and must have been painful. Got several reports but since most of them were just stupid boys fights and he never really injures them so I think there was no big problem. I've heard that he never punches (so that he cannot be blamed on punching, sneaky cheat) but grabs them like CQC ala Crav Maga style and goes more on chokes, throws, locks and submission.

I don't doubt his skills on MA's point of view and as his senior but losing interest on competition is another thing. I'm a supporting instructor at his karate dojo and if he stops competing that will not be good. I think that he is one of the schools assets because he is a heavy hitter and really goes head to head with the black belts and brought home a trophy on full contact belt ignored compe and he is still a newbie. He is still very new to Karate (green belt) but have been promoted really fast and soon be promoted to brown. Since the white belt he seems to be a favorite of the instructors and were frequently sparring with them full contact. Fellow instructors said that he is a heavy hitter, brutal, skilled and doesn't mind receiving heavy hits unlike most of the kids nowadays. And because of his skills in Judo and CQC-FMA they can toss him around or get tossed without worrying if he'll get injured. To be honest he is really fun and a bit scary to spar with especially if there are not too many rules, the more less rules the more he shines.

Maybe the cause of the problem is that I've taught him military CQC-FMA when he was very young where we don't have many rules. Probably it is an irreversible process and I can't do much about it but I still would like him to go back to compete. His main love is CQC-FMA but I really like him to study more and compete more. He said last night that he wanted to go back training with me again but I'm really getting slow, fat and old and though it was ok for me to be his punching dummy before, he is a lot bigger, faster, and kicks like a mule especially those low Karate kicks, man they are painful! I'm thinking of doing it less contact to protect my skin because I really know that I'm obsolete but I'm sure he'll be expecting more from me which I think I'm really too old for. I'm thinking of ways to get him interested to go back in competition but I'm losing options. Though experienced he is still a kid (teenager) and it's really hard to read kids nowadays. If I push, maybe he'll freak out just like what kids do when parents pushes them???
Any help or suggestions would be nice especially coming from MA fathers.

By the way, he spends more time helping at a nearby nursery school (he really loves kids) than the dojos??? He wants to be a nursery teacher he said... I want him to be a policeman or join the military but... crazy ey!

 

[Cyriacus]

Peoples interests change over time. Let him learn what he wants to learn then find the easiest way to facilitate that.
You cant just convince him to be interested in it again. Pursue his new interest, even if it differs from what you envision him wanting.

That said, just ask him what he wants to do. If he wants to train with you, then do it. Lower the intensity if you need to. Theres a denizen ways you can set that up.

 

[lklawson]

Any help or suggestions would be nice especially coming from MA fathers.

Your job as a Father is to prepare your children to become worthwhile, contributing, members of society, not to force them to live the life you want them to live.

When my son stopped wanting to do Bowie &tc. regularly with me, I was disappointed but didn't force the issue. He still does Judo with me and just recently decided to go to a full weekend of Western Martial Arts seminars with me.

I want my son (and daughter) to love the hobbies I love, but that's not my job. And it's a good thing too, my dad is a Preacher and, while I could be good at that, it's not the path I'm called to. Maybe your son isn't called to the path you were.

Take it easy, be "gentle." He'll always appreciate martial arts and will probably always have a place for them in his life. But it's got to be his life.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[harlan]

Where to start? I had to read your blog, and about your club, just to be sure you were for real.

Taking into account your culture and circumstances, I doubt anything I can suggest will be of use, but will share my thoughts.

1. When my son was a similar age and felt the same way, I forced my son to stay in TKD and regret it. In our case, it completely turned him off of ANY further training in ANY martial art (he was so disillusioned), and it built a wall between us. Sure, as a parent one wonders if it's better in the long run to make a kid stick to an activity. For example, I regret my own mother didn't make me continue with flute/music training as a child. But just because I never became accomplished at playing an instrument doesn't mean that the experience was wasted.

2. What's the big deal about sports and tournaments? Pretty shallow, if you ask me.

3. So what if he quits your club. You have to let go sometime. Find another father/son thing to share.

 

[jasonbrinn]

my son...He is 16...a black belt in Judo and and two black belts from me on CQC-FMA and is now doing Karate (full contact)...He has been in several street fights...he really was effective but a bit brutal...he pinned 3 older teens...sent them all crashing to the ground while being twisted [emphasis mine]...made their faces plow the ground...All 4 got their behind thrown to the creek beside my house and so were their bicycles. It was quite a high fall and must have been painful...I've heard that he never punches (so that he cannot be blamed on punching, sneaky cheat) but grabs them like CQC ala Crav Maga style and goes more on chokes, throws, locks and submission.

I'm a supporting instructor at his karate dojo and if he stops competing that will not be good...Fellow instructors said that he is a heavy hitter, brutal, skilled and doesn't mind receiving heavy hits...To be honest he is really fun and a bit scary to spar with especially if there are not too many rules, the more less rules the more he shines.

He said last night that he wanted to go back training with me again...By the way, he spends more time helping at a nearby nursery school (he really loves kids) than the dojos??? He wants to be a nursery teacher he said...

Ok Happy-Papi - I want you to know that I am a VERY honest person and that I mean no harm in my words although they might come across harsh. Just know that what I am about to write I do so in love and respect.

When I read this at first I thought it was a joke (troll job) and I am still HOPING that it is. Your son has all that training and seemingly has NO understanding of BUDO...??? What he is doing is not something to be respected it is something that I would hope would be strongly addressed. In all of that training he has had didn't anyone ever teach him how NOT to get into a fight. He is lucky he hasnt killed anyone yet or seriously injured someone or even run into the "wrong" person yet. I pray you will think this over. It is a very poor representation of what martial arts should be about (coming from an old dinosaur RBSD guy). It sounds like his training has turned him into a honest thug.

But there is hope. It seems like he wants to spend time and connect on another level with his father in a search for something more than becoming a death dealing fighting machine (thank God!). Its cool he like teaching kids, I know of few things more worthwhile or rewarding. Please just train with your son and enjoy each other and think of ways to take your training and do something positive through the lessons learned form it besides fighting and acting like hooligans.

Sincerely,

Jason Brinn

 

[lklawson]

Ok Happy-Papi - I want you to know that I am a VERY honest person and that I mean no harm in my words although they might come across harsh. Just know that what I am about to write I do so in love and respect.

When I read this at first I thought it was a joke (troll job) and I am still HOPING that it is.

irony.

Your son has all that training and seemingly has NO understanding of BUDO...???

Maybe he doesn't give a crap about "Budo" which tends to be deeply misunderstood and foolishly romanticized by westerners anyway?

To be honest, your suggestion of "Just add Budo" doesn't actually address the man's question about whether or not he should force his son into martial arts competitions. It's actually a distraction from the topic.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Argus]

irony.

Maybe he doesn't give a crap about "Budo" which tends to be deeply misunderstood and foolishly romanticized by westerners anyway?

To be honest, your suggestion of "Just add Budo" doesn't actually address the man's question about whether or not he should force his son into martial arts competitions. It's actually a distraction from the topic.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I was actually surprised (and impressed) that he got three good replies before this came up.

 

[Touch Of Death]

What if Mozart's dad let him play video games instead of practicing the piano?

 

[DennisBreene]

Encourage him to find his own path in life. Competition is a small part of MA. HIS future might be in jeopardy with all the fights, either from serious injury or legal troubles. If you train with him, Explore alternatives to fighting to resolve conflict.

 

[Xue Sheng]

What if Mozart's dad let him play video games instead of practicing the piano?

That would likely mean ole Leopold would be more famous than his son Wolfgang for his inventing and manufacturing prowess than for being the father of a famous musician

 

[Happy-Papi]

Ok Happy-Papi - I want you to know that I am a VERY honest person and that I mean no harm in my words although they might come across harsh. Just know that what I am about to write I do so in love and respect.

When I read this at first I thought it was a joke (troll job) and I am still HOPING that it is. Your son has all that training and seemingly has NO understanding of BUDO...??? What he is doing is not something to be respected it is something that I would hope would be strongly addressed. In all of that training he has had didn't anyone ever teach him how NOT to get into a fight. He is lucky he hasnt killed anyone yet or seriously injured someone or even run into the "wrong" person yet. I pray you will think this over. It is a very poor representation of what martial arts should be about (coming from an old dinosaur RBSD guy). It sounds like his training has turned him into a honest thug.

But there is hope. It seems like he wants to spend time and connect on another level with his father in a search for something more than becoming a death dealing fighting machine (thank God!). Its cool he like teaching kids, I know of few things more worthwhile or rewarding. Please just train with your son and enjoy each other and think of ways to take your training and do something positive through the lessons learned form it besides fighting and acting like hooligans.

Sincerely,

Jason Brinn

Dear Jason Brinn,

Thank you very-very much for your advice. I honestly appreciate it.

First this is not a troll job and I'm just a father seeking wisdom from my fellow MA fathers. I'm not really good in expressing myself and obviously I'm not good in English but I wrote this with all honesty in hope to seek advice because I know that there are many MA seniors here who can guide me. Sometime my family reminds me that there are things very normal to me but are totally abnormal to many. I was trained that way and lived my life on the path that was passed to me and sometimes it still shocks me when I think all is normal but actually I'm acting like a clown. Ex: My wife said before that me and my son are the worst people to go with to a beach. She said that normally people who go to the beach and goes for sun bathing, BBQ, volleyball and a bit of swimming and music. For us, once at the beach we just swim for hours without going back to shore and away from the crowd. Honestly I think this was normal and often I wonder why people stay ashore when they can enjoy water... This is my normal but now I'm slowly trying to control myself from being called a fish and work on my tan just to look normal. Sometimes old habits are hard to die.

About "BUDO", I beleive that my son is following the "budo way". My apologies for not telling the whole story because I thought that since we are all "MA/Budo Practitioners" here that I didn't have to elaborate the whole story because I thought that budo guys will automatically picture and understand the whole story. About my son's fights, I have heard that all of the story that I wrote above were all done for self defense. They are all older, bigger, and more in numbers. They were the one who attacked my son like bees and my son defended himself. The one about the bicycle is when my son received a flying drop kick on his back (popular attack technique for wannabe young thugs or "yanki" as we call them here) cornered him and pounded him like crazy. He got a bit brutal for throwing all 4 of them to the creek and so with the bicycles. He should have been really angry and hurt to do that but he still got a good scolding from us and as we always do... I never heard him attack or give the first blow based on what I've heard and I hope that he never will. Just like one time when he was punched on the face for trying to go back to his chair in school when his larger wannabe thug classmate got pissed because he woke him up to pass. His teacher said that my son automatically went for an arm lock and a head lock but never punched. His judo teacher came and gently tapped my son's shoulder and my son released the other kid. The untrained teachers first reaction was fear because he might break his bones but the judo teacher told them that he is only doing a submission hold to control the larger kid from causing any harm. My son is trained to roll with the punches but since he is human just like us, sometimes he gets angry too and use techniques like pinning them down on the floor to restrain. If he uses his fist and other weird techniques, those are the one that are dangerous but he is not using them... Sometimes it is hard to stay away from fights because sometimes MAist get targeted by wannabe thugs who wants to show that they are more capable in fighting and this happened to my son too. Maybe you have heard about some popular MAist who have to bring guns to protect themselves because some wannabe thug wants a piece of him. It has been 2 years now and since he went to high school, I never heard of him engaged in a real fight.

About the "BUDO" thing, looking at the Japanese side (since my son is Japanese), there is this Old Bushido way and which many of the younger generations less follow now. My son having been exposed to old hardcore MA practitioners since his younger years, he may have adopted the "old ways". It is more on honor, glory, fight for your love ones and country or die trying. It's like live by the sword, die by the sword way. Some are now obsolete just like the kamikaze to protect their mother land or just like the harakiri to end their lives to fix a wrong doing, etc. but probably he thinks a bit this way. Also very similar to the training that I had and probably very similar to real old Martial Arts (martial = military).

This is one of the reason why I want him to compete again, to absorb the "New Budo Style" for the modern day which focus more on self defense, love, peace and harmony like what many new MAs are now following. Obviously I'm not against it but since I had a very different training, I'm also still learning now. Yes, he may be considered a weapon but I know that he knows how to control it and only use minimal force (on my point of view basing from old CQC-FMA). I got comments from old teachers that my son acts like an old Budoka because they too probably are similar.

Many thanks for your advice especially on the "becoming a death dealing fighting machine", yes he has skills but as a father I won't let him. He may look tough for a kid his age but I assure you that he (including me) are law abiding people. The only offense I got these past 20+ years was a 20kph speeding ticket and the limit was 40kph and for parking a scooter on a bicycle parking area... His foot is basically just on shallow waters since I wont be passing him and cannot pass him our full art. We lack tools, manpower and funds, plus I will never teach him stuffs like sentry control, tracking, stalking, etc. because he doesn't need them. Sad but true but these are also parts of my old MA training and it's a huge set. About "fighting and acting like hooligans", honestly I thought that we are just training (as I've mentioned that there are things that looks normal to me but probably are not normal to others). The videos that I've shared we honestly showing how we are having fun. We are not showing-off or showing real CQC-FMA stuffs in the videos in fear that bad guys may steal our techniques and use them for crime and these are all very basic MA techniques (for us). I'm glad that I've refrain from showing the real stuff or I may be in more hot water.

Again, my huge apologies and will always keep your advice close to my heart. Thank you very much.

 

[Happy-Papi]

Your job as a Father is to prepare your children to become worthwhile, contributing, members of society, not to force them to live the life you want them to live.

When my son stopped wanting to do Bowie &tc. regularly with me, I was disappointed but didn't force the issue. He still does Judo with me and just recently decided to go to a full weekend of Western Martial Arts seminars with me.

I want my son (and daughter) to love the hobbies I love, but that's not my job. And it's a good thing too, my dad is a Preacher and, while I could be good at that, it's not the path I'm called to. Maybe your son isn't called to the path you were.

Take it easy, be "gentle." He'll always appreciate martial arts and will probably always have a place for them in his life. But it's got to be his life.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

This is very touching and very true. I'll just look from a distance and try to guide him when needed. It's his life and I can't really push what I want. He has to find his own path.

irony.

Maybe he doesn't give a crap about "Budo" which tends to be deeply misunderstood and foolishly romanticized by westerners anyway?

To be honest, your suggestion of "Just add Budo" doesn't actually address the man's question about whether or not he should force his son into martial arts competitions. It's actually a distraction from the topic.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Sad but he give too much crap and follows the "Old Budo Way" that sometimes I think he is becoming corny. This is why I would really like him to learn some "New Budo Ways" and probably learn more of the stuffs that the new generation MAist are following.

Yes some do over romanticize budo. We often get visitors from abroad and there were times we scratched our heads because some are just too far to reach. They know more old proverbs than we do. Knows very complicated letters/kanji (but barely know the language) that a normal Mr. Tanaka may have difficulties writing it. Some worst cases where the visitor acted like they are the Last Samurai and were really over acting. Sometimes they talk about some "Bushido Way" that they misunderstood the true deeper meaning and left us clueless of what he is talking about. Sometimes they try to apply the old budo meaning to their new modern art but sometimes they just don't fit. It's like trying to make an old scroll's meaning fit their "Happy Sunday Kids Tournament" when it was made during a time of war??? Some fit and some just don't.

 

[Xue Sheng]

New Budo...old Buda....all Budo

 

[chinto]

Allow him to do the things he wants in Martial Arts. All you will accomplish if you try and force him back to competition is his dropping the whole thing. Let him pursue what he is interested in, and he may go back to competition, or he may not. But if you push he will more likely quit all together. ( I Know I would at his age if pushed.)

 

[kitkatninja]

...This is one of the reason why I want him to compete again, to absorb the "New Budo Style" for the modern day which focus more on self defense, love, peace and harmony like what many new MAs are now following. Obviously I'm not against it but since I had a very different training, I'm also still learning now. Yes, he may be considered a weapon but I know that he knows how to control it and only use minimal force (on my point of view basing from old CQC-FMA). I got comments from old teachers that my son acts like an old Budoka because they too probably are similar...

While participating in competitions may assist in the absorption of "new style Budo", it's not the only way. Besides, while I've seen quite alot of good martial artists compete in competitions, I've also seen arrogant and cocky martial artists compete too.
If your son was trained a certain way while growing up, that is what he currently looking for - that type of training, atmosphere and "feeling".
For instance, I started in Shotokan karate - spent years in that art, gaining my black belt, participating in competitions, etc. Had to stop due to moving out of the area and damaging my knees. Tried to return to Shotokan via 3 or 4 different associations in my new area, but I didn't last long with them, not that they weren't good, but because the "feeling" wasn't there. I moved around the arts (some I achieved ranks in, some I didn't): Kung Ku (Lee style, lau gar, etc), ninpo, different styles of karate (freestyle, kyokusin, Ishinryu/Ni-Sen, an Oz based one, etc), Judo, JKD, different styles of kickboxing and the list goes on until I found Tang Soo Do (well the association that I'm currently with, as I know that different TSD associations focus on and teaches different things) and have stayed with them ever since.
This may be the same for your son, he may be looking for something that he currently isn't getting from his current training or association. You don't mention what style of karate you currently practice, but how about seeing if your son would like to try something along the lines of Kyukusin (or similar: Shidōkan, Ashihara or Enshin) or a different art like Muay Thai.
Or it really could be that he's grown out of the need to compete. After all he is only 16, in these teen years he's going to go thru rapid physical, intellectual, and emotional growth.
As a father myself and reading what you've written, I would be worried and proud at the same time (granted I don't know the full circumstances), but it sounds as if your son is following the 20 precepts of karate as well as the Dojo Kun - not just being a "weapon". However as a father, I'm naturally worried as I know that if you step in to assist in a situation, you yourself can become the target... While I can't give any advice on that, how would your son feel if he saw something wrong but didn't do anything to stop it when he knew that he could have. Again, I can't give any advice and I don't envy you on this.

Your job as a Father is to prepare your children to become worthwhile, contributing, members of society, not to force them to live the life you want them to live....
...Take it easy, be "gentle." He'll always appreciate martial arts and will probably always have a place for them in his life. But it's got to be his life.

This +1
I would say the first thing would be to talk to him.

 

[Happy-Papi]

Thank you very much kitkatninja. Wow, you are heavily trained in MA! That is very nice!

While participating in competitions may assist in the absorption of "new style Budo", it's not the only way. Besides, while I've seen quite alot of good martial artists compete in competitions, I've also seen arrogant and cocky martial artists compete too.
If your son was trained a certain way while growing up, that is what he currently looking for - that type of training, atmosphere and "feeling".
For instance, I started in Shotokan karate - spent years in that art, gaining my black belt, participating in competitions, etc. Had to stop due to moving out of the area and damaging my knees. Tried to return to Shotokan via 3 or 4 different associations in my new area, but I didn't last long with them, not that they weren't good, but because the "feeling" wasn't there. I moved around the arts (some I achieved ranks in, some I didn't): Kung Ku (Lee style, lau gar, etc), ninpo, different styles of karate (freestyle, kyokusin, Ishinryu/Ni-Sen, an Oz based one, etc), Judo, JKD, different styles of kickboxing and the list goes on until I found Tang Soo Do (well the association that I'm currently with, as I know that different TSD associations focus on and teaches different things) and have stayed with them ever since.
This may be the same for your son, he may be looking for something that he currently isn't getting from his current training or association. You don't mention what style of karate you currently practice, but how about seeing if your son would like to try something along the lines of Kyukusin (or similar: Shidōkan, Ashihara or Enshin) or a different art like Muay Thai.

My son is now studying Sabaki Karate Style (http://kyokukai.com/). He love it and feels "very much at home". His senseis are originally are from Ashihara Kyokushin. His senseis were given the blessing by Ashihara Kyokushin to start a new ryuha which in simple term is Kyokushin, throws and takedowns and concentrate more on close combat. I often see Kyokushin practitioners from all over joining the training and having fun. I believe that this is perfect for my son because he took Judo and CQC. Watching him at the Karate dojo (Judo also), I saw that he enjoys more training and sparring with his main senseis where he gets "the special treatment" where he really gets pounded and learns more special techniques coming from the oldies. He often comes home limping and bruised but he loves it, (that's what he get from special training, hahaha!). I also noticed that he is a favorite of the senior senseis to the point where he is regularly picked by the seniors to spar with. Talking to the senior senseis, they said that he is fun to spar with, is like a sponge that is eager to steal their techniques and is using the same techniques they taught them against them. Plus he have some weird techniques up his sleeves which he from time to time mixes it with Karate and that is where the fun begins. As a senior MAist myself, I do enjoy sparing with him especially when I see him use techniques that I taught him plus the techniques that he got from his other MA teachers and hybrid techniques that I've never seen combined before. Keeps me on my toes

I think he is not arrogant because if he is, senseis would hate him. Same with me, I will not pass good kept techniques to students who are arrogant and reckless and all they'll get are the basics. Same with most senior MAist I believe...

Or it really could be that he's grown out of the need to compete. After all he is only 16, in these teen years he's going to go thru rapid physical, intellectual, and emotional growth.
As a father myself and reading what you've written, I would be worried and proud at the same time (granted I don't know the full circumstances), but it sounds as if your son is following the 20 precepts of karate as well as the Dojo Kun - not just being a "weapon". However as a father, I'm naturally worried as I know that if you step in to assist in a situation, you yourself can become the target... While I can't give any advice on that, how would your son feel if he saw something wrong but didn't do anything to stop it when he knew that he could have. Again, I can't give any advice and I don't envy you on this.

I had talked with him and he said that he will be continuing Karate but will go less with competition and I will honor his decision.

He seems to keep CQC-FMA close to his heart and I think he misses our training since I don't give it often as much as I should. I thought that it will be best to lay low until he reaches black belt in Karate so things wont get mixed up. Probably I should start playing with him again from time to time.

He wants to learn some stuffs to make his CQC training a bit more complete but we don't have those in Japan like breaching, sniping, assault, evasion, etc. I'm planning to take him to the Philippines someday and and let train with the boys. He is really expecting this and I know that he will have lots of fun.

Probably he has outgrown it a bit... And usually competitions are done when they don't have school and at his age, most kids are having a good time doing other stuffs like hanging out with friends, dating, doing part time jobs, etc. "For me being the target"... he has always been a good boy to us but since kids can rebel, I really try to ask my seniors here (like yourself) for good advice. He is my only child and asking help from the pros can give me good guidance.

I try to assist and guide him as much as I can and "for me being the target" (literally), yes I have trained him weird skills and is very much capable but I'm very confident that he will never use it against me. The only time that I think he will turn on me is if I commit treason or support terrorist. I'm just a fat-nobody so I'm safe

------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason why I got injuries from him is really because of me. For example when I'm teaching him grappling, I want him to reach near my breaking point. I instructed him to put his knee hard on my throat so he knows my limit. Choke me till I nearly pass out, etc. I've been asked many times by senseis that why I instruct my son to use weird techniques that basically they have never seen (lol) against me to the point that I put my self in pain. As a father, I want the best for him and I want his training to be realistic as possible because I have seen several MAist in real combat who knows the skills but lacks proper experience on proper application.

Ex: I saw several good compe MAist in real fights and while watching, I saw them use techniques that are good but not for a real fight. They have the extra edge and the application of the techniques are OK but lacks power. One grappled and pinned down his enemy but his holds are weak causing him to get punched in the face with a padlock. Another is a puncher who'se punches were concentrated more on the chest. He was able to deliver lots of hits but were not strong enough to bring his opponent down and was only focused on him. He then received one strong punch on his nose that brought him down then someone sneaked behind and hit his head with a water pipe. Another one is a kicker. He is very good with his legs but the fight happened in a machine shop where there were lots of machineries and couldn't kick properly. He was able to deliver some hits but if he stopped giving roundhouse kicks and should have just given good frontal kicks or just punched their noses causing his opponents to slam on the machineries, then probably he wont got beaten. Then some of his opponent grabbed some hand tools (hammers and wrenches) but he is still going for the hand to hand??? He was lucky that we were there to stop the fight or he will get seriously pounded. Another was a duel, both started hand to hand. One fought like in a tournament and was giving tournament like hits but the other one just jumped him and slammed his head on the headlight of a car, grabbed his arms and nearly broke it but luckily we were there to stop them. Another is two punks with knives. Both of them had training but was never close enough to hit each other and all they did was to bark like dogs. This is why I to teach him more on actual combat so that if he will be in the same situation, he will know how to properly deliver effective hits but can still use control or mercy not to injure his opponent that much.

Maybe it was those "reality" things and some experiences in real fighting made him stay away from compes. I know that it was my fault but he has to know that there are techniques that he can learn and practice more in compes. One of this is keeping his head cool, reminding him not to use foul techniques, not injuring people and to remind him that winning is not everything. In CQC it is only about winning no matter how dirty, devious or cowardly we deliver our techniques but as long as we bring our enemies down all are accepted. He has to unlearn or control those stuffs I believe.
I want him to be of service and not just as a weapon. Like guns in the US, I believe that the majority of the gun/knife owners are nice, law abiding, responsible people and since we all know that guns/knives can be dangerous, guns/knives are just tools that can help with our daily lives and also helps in keeping peace and security.
Those minority who thinks that they are above the law needs some serious spanking.

 

[jasonbrinn]

irony.

Yea, how so? Also, irony is not a complete sentence and does not require the period (or were you being ironic?).

Maybe he doesn't give a crap about "Budo" which tends to be deeply misunderstood and foolishly romanticized by westerners anyway?

To be honest, your suggestion of "Just add Budo" doesn't actually address the man's question about whether or not he should force his son into martial arts competitions. It's actually a distraction from the topic.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

If one is not interested in Budo then they should more appropriately train boxing, wrestling or the walking stick.

I never said "Just add Budo" rather I said much more but when one skims topics Kirk they never get the real truth (just saying).

"Although it is important to study and train for skill in techniques, for the man who wishes to truly accomplish the way of Budo, it is important to make his whole life in training and therefore not aiming for skill and strength alone, but also for spiritual attainment."
~Mas Oyama~

 

[lklawson]

Yea, how so? Also, irony is not a complete sentence and does not require the period (or were you being ironic?).

Try. Google.

Oh, and one more thing...

.

If one is not interested in Budo then they should more appropriately train boxing, wrestling or the walking stick.

Or Karate, or Judo, or Kendo, or Krav Maga, or Silat, or Arnis. It's perfectly easy to learn the physical skills of martial arts, pretty much all of them, without attempting to assimilate into a cultural phenomenon which dictates lifelong, hereditary, slavery as a combination of shock-troops, Janisaries, and gladiator to a feudal Lord who's death could mean either ritual suicide or life as an outcast. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Here's what one scholar wrote:

"So what is the difference [between Budo and Bushido], after circa 1930?
Were I you, I'd read Bodiford myself. Failing that, if I recall aright...

Actually, the 30's date is probably off a bit, sorry. In the teens, 20's and 30's, Jp was in the clutches of fascists who oriented education to inculcating sentiments of suicidal allegiance to the emperor. The Jpn recognized their technological incapacities and intended to take up the slack with "SEISHIN", fighting spirit (remember the women in Okinawa fighting flame throwers with sharpened bamboo poles? One modernizer who tried to build up Jpn armaments was accused of treason).

To this end, the famous Hagakure ("The way of the samurai lies in death"), written by a romantic gasbag born during the peace of Tokugawa who never had to draw his sword in anger, was widely circulated to inspire fanaticism; martial arts were taken over by an organization called the Butokukai founded for this purpose to introduce youth to fighting and sacrifice; Momotaro, a children's story about a superhuman toddler who drives off the long-nosed barbarians, becomes canonical.

Samurai had become unwelcome in Meiji (1868-1911). They were conservative dinosaurs in a time of cataclysmic change. Nitobe Inazo, a Quaker (I think) wrote Bushido, in English, to reconcile Jpn values with Christianity. After the Jpn womped the Russians, however, an event inspiring peoples throughout the colonial world where whites had theretofore been regarded as undefeatable, values of the samurai were reconsidered. "Bushido" (Nitobe had thought he invented the term which had alternately been referred to as "budo", "samuraido", etc.) was appropriated by the politicos and "DO" took on the meaning of emperor worship (Here, Bodiford explicitly corrects Draeger who denies this history).

A police superintendent wrote that "bujutsu" ought to be written "budo" and this soon occured. In the 30's, the term "dojo" became widespread; borrowed from Buddhism, it lent a patina of spirituality to the rough business of preparing an army of suicidal maniacs. Constabularies regularly policed dojo to enforce the requirement that they have KAMIDANA at the front of their practice area, and bowed to it before and after class.

Offers new perspective to the standard "harmony of the universe, self-perfection thing", doesn't it? Kano, founder of judo, must have rolled over in his grave and it's said that Ueshiba Morihei retired to the countryside to avoid being part of the prostitution of his art thus.

Evidently, after the war, many martial artists acquiesed to the association of their arts with Zen through what had become "The Ways", not because it was actually so, but in order to rehabilitate their practice with the appearance of social utility. YMMV."
​

I repeat, Budo tends to be deeply misunderstood and foolishly romanticized by westerners anyway.

I never said "Just add Budo" rather I said much more but when one skims topics Kirk they never get the real truth (just saying).

What you specifically wrote was, "Your son has all that training and seemingly has NO understanding of BUDO...???" and then went on to describe that what he was doing wasn't "Budo." In truth, what he was doing most certainly could be described as Budo and, further, your statement, "Your son has all that training and seemingly has NO understanding of BUDO...???" clearly implies that the boy needs "Budo" to solve his problems.

The problem with this is multi-fold. First off, the boy was clearly operating under a legitimate definition of Budo, just not the western, romanticized version. Second, there are many ways to learn martial arts and the philosophy/social contract/class strata of Budo isn't a requirement for either ethical and "honorable" behavior nor for learning the physical skills of martial arts. Finally, Budo or no, it doesn't address the OP's question of whether or not to pressure the boy into competing which is, let me reiterate, THE WHOLE POINT OF THE THREAD!

Seriously, throwing "Budo" into this discussion is not only irrelevant but it actually distracts from the point. It is, at best, a distraction and, at worst, trolling. I'm, personally, hoping for the former rather than the latter.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[jasonbrinn]

Try. Google.

Google what Kirk, English grammar?

Or Karate, or Judo, or Kendo, or Krav Maga, or Silat, or Arnis. It's perfectly easy to learn the physical skills of martial arts, pretty much all of them, without attempting to assimilate into a cultural phenomenon which dictates lifelong, hereditary, slavery as a combination of shock-troops, Janisaries, and gladiator to a feudal Lord who's death could mean either ritual suicide or life as an outcast. And that's just the tip of the iceberg....

What's hilarious is you pointing this out to me. I founded an art with one of its primary goals to completely strip my training from its cultural, religious and political trappings. However, thoughtfully responding to the OP's personal situation and training I wrote what I did. This is from Oyama himself, "Although it is important to study and train for skill in techniques, for the man who wishes to truly accomplish the way of Budo, it is important to make his whole life in training and therefore not aiming for skill and strength alone, but also for spiritual attainment" and in case you are unaware he is the founder of the art that the OP's son is training a derivative of now.

I repeat, Budo tends to be deeply misunderstood and foolishly romanticized by westerners anyway.

Now here Kirk you have actually created something of irony.

What you specifically wrote was, "Your son has all that training and seemingly has NO understanding of BUDO...???" and then went on to describe that what he was doing wasn't "Budo." In truth, what he was doing most certainly could be described as Budo and, further, your statement, "Your son has all that training and seemingly has NO understanding of BUDO...???" clearly implies that the boy needs "Budo" to solve his problems.

The modern budō has no external enemy, only the internal enemy, one's ego that must be fought. Dō in the Japanese context, is an experiential term, experiential in the sense that practice (the way of life) is the norm to verify the validity of the discipline cultivated through a given art form. A school might choose to call their practice budō to reflect an emphasis on spiritual and philosophical development, or simply to reflect that the art was developed more recently.

The problem with this is multi-fold. First off, the boy was clearly operating under a legitimate definition of Budo, just not the western, romanticized version. Second, there are many ways to learn martial arts and the philosophy/social contract/class strata of Budo isn't a requirement for either ethical and "honorable" behavior nor for learning the physical skills of martial arts. Finally, Budo or no, it doesn't address the OP's question of whether or not to pressure the boy into competing which is, let me reiterate, THE WHOLE POINT OF THE THREAD!

You assume too much once again Kirk. I actually posted this "Please just train with your son and enjoy each other and think of ways to take your training and do something positive through the lessons learned form it besides fighting and acting like hooligans." I accept your apology in advance.

Seriously, throwing "Budo" into this discussion is not only irrelevant but it actually distracts from the point. It is, at best, a distraction and, at worst, trolling. I'm, personally, hoping for the former rather than the latter.

Thank God you are not the decider of what is relevant or not. The OP took my post the way it was meant, and if you did not like it you should have just pointed out to the OP what you felt was missing and not addressed me personally (like a Troll does). Feel free to address my thoughts and we can talk, however address me personally and we have something altogether different.

 

[lklawson]

Start a new topic if you want to keep on about Budo.