Bulllies-Is fighting back work?

shesulsa

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Phil Elmore said:
I don't. Bullying is bullying.
Is it, now?

So ... me being bullied by an adult would be no different than my daughter being bullied by a tough chick at school? I beg to differ.

A unilateral approach just isn't the best answer. It's one answer - probably the easiest and, hence, often justified and rationalized by people with a certain type of mentality.

Interesting.
 

Phil Elmore

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While the context will change -- as will the options realistically open to you (a child can punch someone in a situation that would put an adult in jail for the same action) -- the fundamental principle at work does not change. A bully will treat you as you allow him to treat you -- and he will not stop until you make it clear that you are prepared to resist using force.

Bullies are bullies. No amount of touchy-feely-make-him-your-friend New Age nonsense will change that.
 

WingChun Lawyer

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Bullies are not bullies. Not in such an easily qualified manner anyway. There is bullying at work, there is bullying at school, and there is bullying done by five drunkards eager for a fight against one unarmed, elderly person in a subway.

Not all situations warrant the same response.

Stating all bullying situations warrant physical reaction is as ignorant as stating a physical reaction is never warranted. Absolutes are usually stupid, and this is a typical case.

Incidentally, I also became friends with a bully at school after choking him out when I was 12 (blessed be judo, God織s gift to mankind). So I do believe children should fight back when the situation calls for it. But saying fighting back is always a good idea is just silly.
 

MartialIntent

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WingChun Lawyer said:
Incidentally, I also became friends with a bully at school after choking him out when I was 12 (blessed be judo, God織s gift to mankind). So I do believe children should fight back when the situation calls for it. But saying fighting back is always a good idea is just silly.
I say fighting back is the *only* response to bullying. Period. However, I'd qualify that by saying that "fightback" response by no means necessarily has to be physical. There are many ways to fight back but at the end of the day - in order for the bullying to cease, the bully must know that he or she will be met with resistance [and possibly physical force] should they wish to continue the bullying.

This applies to equally to the workplace and the schoolyard. I have witnessed both. Regarding children, generally we'd advise them to report bullying in the first instance to a teacher. Bullying is treated with extreme gravity here in the UK as I'm sure it is elsewhere. The school will deal as severely with the bully as it's disciplinary framework allows [which isn't always a great deal imHo] however where the school is impotent and utterly powerless is afterwards out on the street. This can be the most terrifying time for kids as reporting the behaviour will often have led to an escalation in the scale of the problem and is also why many cases go unreported - the child eventually reaching that point where they feel so failed by so-called right-thinking adults that they really do see no other release to the relentless daily torture of bullying than suicide.

As martial artists, almost all of us will train concepts such as situational awareness, de-escalation and conflict avoidance but bullying is one of those advanced cases where we as martial artists would be taking the split-second decision to fight or run. The problem with bullying is that it's recurring and serial in nature meaning that were you to have chosen to run previously, not only will the bully have sought you out again but now your fate is sealed, the bully knows you have no confidence to fight back.

I maintain therefore that the only practical mentoring we should be showing our young people in particular regarding bullying is to fight back. Physical or non-physical will depend on the situation but for bullying to cease, a line in the sand must be drawn with confidence - and it's confidence we can give to our kids through our martial arts.

It would be my wish that we would hear the inanity in our own attitudes and stop blindly taking the offender's side so often. Consider the victims.

Respects!
 

Phil Elmore

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I say fighting back is the *only* response to bullying. Period. However, I'd qualify that by saying that "fightback" response by no means necessarily has to be physical.

I'd agree with that, cautiously. Force need not be a punch in the eye to be force or its credible threat.
 

shesulsa

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MartialIntent said:
I say fighting back is the *only* response to bullying. Period. However, I'd qualify that by saying that "fightback" response by no means necessarily has to be physical. There are many ways to fight back but at the end of the day - in order for the bullying to cease, the bully must know that he or she will be met with resistance [and possibly physical force] should they wish to continue the bullying.

This applies to equally to the workplace and the schoolyard. I have witnessed both. Regarding children, generally we'd advise them to report bullying in the first instance to a teacher. Bullying is treated with extreme gravity here in the UK as I'm sure it is elsewhere. The school will deal as severely with the bully as it's disciplinary framework allows [which isn't always a great deal imHo] however where the school is impotent and utterly powerless is afterwards out on the street. This can be the most terrifying time for kids as reporting the behaviour will often have led to an escalation in the scale of the problem and is also why many cases go unreported - the child eventually reaching that point where they feel so failed by so-called right-thinking adults that they really do see no other release to the relentless daily torture of bullying than suicide.

As martial artists, almost all of us will train concepts such as situational awareness, de-escalation and conflict avoidance but bullying is one of those advanced cases where we as martial artists would be taking the split-second decision to fight or run. The problem with bullying is that it's recurring and serial in nature meaning that were you to have chosen to run previously, not only will the bully have sought you out again but now your fate is sealed, the bully knows you have no confidence to fight back.

I maintain therefore that the only practical mentoring we should be showing our young people in particular regarding bullying is to fight back. Physical or non-physical will depend on the situation but for bullying to cease, a line in the sand must be drawn with confidence - and it's confidence we can give to our kids through our martial arts.

It would be my wish that we would hear the inanity in our own attitudes and stop blindly taking the offender's side so often. Consider the victims.

Respects!

Here here!
 

Cryozombie

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A couple times, When I was younger, I was bullied. Finally I got fed up and fought back.

The first time, was in gradeschool, and I beat the snot out of the kid. I was put in detention for it, and when I got out he was waiting with 3 friends, and the four of em kicked my ***.

The second time, was in high school, there was a kid who used to punch me everytime I waked past him in the hall. One day I was fed up, and he came up to punch me, and I sidestepped, kicked him in the stomach and knocked him down, then kept walking. He came into the classroom I was in, FURIOUS and screaming how he was gonna kick my ***. The moron teacher sent BOTH of us to the principles office unescorted, even after I tried to tell her that was a stupid idea.

Needless to say we fought in the hall. But it was the last time he hit me.

So I'd say... it can go either way.
 
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Hello, George Bush believes in fighting bullies....look what he did to Saddam?

Each person and sitution could be work out differently. But in the two boys,...fighting back ended the sitution and they became friends.

There are times fighting is the answer? ...We live in a world where it is FIGHT or FLEE.....human nature....not always smart? ......Aloha
 

Kenpodoc

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MartialIntent said:
I say fighting back is the *only* response to bullying. Period. However, I'd qualify that by saying that "fightback" response by no means necessarily has to be physical. There are many ways to fight back but at the end of the day - in order for the bullying to cease, the bully must know that he or she will be met with resistance [and possibly physical force] should they wish to continue the bullying.

This applies to equally to the workplace and the schoolyard. I have witnessed both. Regarding children, generally we'd advise them to report bullying in the first instance to a teacher. Bullying is treated with extreme gravity here in the UK as I'm sure it is elsewhere. The school will deal as severely with the bully as it's disciplinary framework allows [which isn't always a great deal imHo] however where the school is impotent and utterly powerless is afterwards out on the street. This can be the most terrifying time for kids as reporting the behaviour will often have led to an escalation in the scale of the problem and is also why many cases go unreported - the child eventually reaching that point where they feel so failed by so-called right-thinking adults that they really do see no other release to the relentless daily torture of bullying than suicide.

As martial artists, almost all of us will train concepts such as situational awareness, de-escalation and conflict avoidance but bullying is one of those advanced cases where we as martial artists would be taking the split-second decision to fight or run. The problem with bullying is that it's recurring and serial in nature meaning that were you to have chosen to run previously, not only will the bully have sought you out again but now your fate is sealed, the bully knows you have no confidence to fight back.

I maintain therefore that the only practical mentoring we should be showing our young people in particular regarding bullying is to fight back. Physical or non-physical will depend on the situation but for bullying to cease, a line in the sand must be drawn with confidence - and it's confidence we can give to our kids through our martial arts.

It would be my wish that we would hear the inanity in our own attitudes and stop blindly taking the offender's side so often. Consider the victims.

Respects!
Good post. I sent my son to Kenpo classes. he didn't knowthe techniques weren't supposed to work and knocked a kid out with "Raining Claw." School was much easier after that.

Another difficult issue for kids is finding a solution for dealing with adult bullies.

Jeff
 

MartialIntent

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Kenpodoc said:
Good post. I sent my son to Kenpo classes. he didn't knowthe techniques weren't supposed to work and knocked a kid out with "Raining Claw." School was much easier after that.
Exactly! No one wishes their children to become embroiled in bullying situations but I think we rest happier knowing our kids have the confidence to say "No! You ain't stomping on me any more!"
Kenpodoc said:
Another difficult issue for kids is finding a solution for dealing with adult bullies.
That's an extremely important issue you have raised because it implies that a key link of trust between adult and child has been broken somewhere in the chain. This for me is by far the worst and gravest bullying situation of all. The greatest difficulty here can also be that the bullying adult is often one who is close to the child [parent, guardian or relative, teacher or - as has notably been the case recently - priest].

Question: in our capacities as martial arts instructors / parents / teachers, how do we advise our young people in these situations on the most practical and confident way to negotiate this distress? I'm referring specifically to the interim [after the child has confided the bullying to someone in whom they trust] in which the appropriate social services are being typically tardy at best and incompetent at worst?

Interested in opinions...

Respects!
 

Hand Sword

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I would say that if they go through the options, and still the bully keeps on, maybe away from supervision, on the way home etc... Than they have to deal with the bully! I remeber, and have seen in the school age group, this encounter ends up with them being friends in the end.
 
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