Bulllies-Is fighting back work?

[still learning]

Hello, Two stories here, One was a six grader and the other 8 grader. The six grader is presently a student of Kempo and was pick on by two boys after school when they get off the bus, finally the Dad said "Son if you need to fight back, go for it" (this was after the father told him to try and solved this another way) The six grader fought back and two days later they became best of friends.

The eight grader was pick on by another bully, and it went on for a while, finnally the Dad told him Fight back too! A week later they were friends

There are more too this story and I was just trying to get to this point...?

It seems that dealing with bullies... ,the pick on person will find "getting into a fight with bully" seems to end the haressment. The eigth grader was a former student of our Kempo school too, and this story was told to me by his Dad.

Both Parents told their boys not to get into a fight....and both try to settle it in other ways. The school nor the parents of the other boys were of no help. Finnally they said "fight back" and the bullying ended for both of them. Today the bullies no longer pick on them and now are there friends.......

In these cases....it seems it is best to face the bully and fight back....? young kids. Will it work for older people?

What are your thoughts on this? ......................Aloha

 

[Phil Elmore]

There is a lot of contemporary advice on bullies, doled out by schools and other organizations, that is completely and absurdly wrong. "Try to make the bully your friend... use humor to defuse the situation... tell a parent or teacher... blah blah blah." The overwhelming majority of these lists of suggestions are utter crap and I get annoyed every time I see them.

Bullies understand only one thing: force. You don't necessarily have to win the fight, but you have to make it clear that the bully won't be able to intimidate you without having to really work for it. Like a car thief moving on to cars without security devices, he will choose an easier target rather than persist with someone who makes the whole bullying process harder.

When I was in fourth grade and again in ninth grade, I contended with different extremely aggressive bullies who were also much larger than me at the time. In both cases, the only thing that stopped months of bullying was finally fighting back. I lost the first fight in fourth grade -- there was no way I could win, given the disparity in our sizes and my total lack of fighting knowledge -- but that bully never bothered me again. By the ninth grade I was big enough to win and, when I was a junior and my former bully was a senior, he even asked me to sign his yearbook for him.

"Come on," he said when I hesitated. "I haven't given you any trouble since you tried to kill me that time."

 

[MartialIntent]

Fighting back against bullies is the only way imHo. I believe bullying situations are most frequent amongst schoolchildren, and direct engaging of the bully [without necessarily becoming physical] generally resolves the situation without further escalation. I'm an ex-schoolteacher - and whilst this fight-back practice was certainly never *officially* sanctioned within the schools in which I taught, its success was well-proven where it went on without teachers' prior knowledge.

As adults, the most common form of serial bullying seems to occur in the workplace [anything other physical or verbal harrassment must be classed as agressive anti-social or fighting behaviour and must be treated differently from serial bullying].

Workplace bullying is often much more subtle, harder to prove and more difficult to engage with. What I have noted is that it is still those who are less vociferous, meeker and perhaps less confident who [as is the case with kids] are the targets for bullies in the workplace.

I see no reason why fighting back against an adult bully would be any less successful in quashing the behavior than it is for a child. Fight back I say...

Respects!

 

[SAVAGE]

There needs to be some avenues other than violence..but if it escalates...by all means defend yourself..I have found that bullies just want attention generally...and if you deny them that attention you should be allright...but obviously this varies from situation to situation!

But i think reporting to the relevant authourities is always the first step...before going vigilante (Rogue Ninja)...in the bully!!

I am glad that those two boys turned out allright....because the story could just have easily have gone...one boy was bullied after school...after using his thundering hammer techniques from kenpo karate.....he beat the bullies....one of the bullies went home and got his fathers glock...came to school and blew the boys head off!!

Violence begets violence!

 

[Drac]

There is a lot of contemporary advice on bullies, doled out by schools and other organizations, that is completely and absurdly wrong. The overwhelming majority of these lists of suggestions are utter crap and I get annoyed every time I see them.

Amen Brother..Went through this with my stepdaughter who was constantly picked on by this large female who disliked her Hispanic looks..I spent a weekend showing her some moves based on how I was told this bully attacked..Sure enough on the following the bully attacked and my stepdaughter beat her butt.

 

[beau_safken]

I met my best friend after getting my *** kicked by a bully in elementary school. My friend promtly pummeled the bully and I never had to hear about that again.

Come to think of it...In high school there was a time where a kid that was the boyfriend of a girl I disagreed with in student council got in my face. He had his large friend grab me and put me against a wall. I was in my ROTC uniform at the time so I had a nice assortment of pins and sharp studded ribbons and lapel insignia at my disposal. The large kid grabbed me on the lapels and I prompty removed the frogs exposing the 1/4" metal posts and jabbed it into his hand. He pulled back and I smacked him on across the face. One shot...boom...knocked out. The little kid that started it just looked at me and didnt move. I walked up to him and told him that if his woman has a problem, have her talk with me so your friends dont get hurt next time. This kid I knocked out was very apologitic to me from there on out. And the little guy that started the whole thing avoided me like the plague. Was a nice liberating feeling honestly. Word of it passed very fast thru the school and I wasnt getting looked at or anything from the ghetto bangers at all anymore.

Nothing like a little lesson about those in uniform to straighten out a situation.

 

[Grenadier]

There can certainly be a time when diplomacy fails, and trying to go through the "proper channels" is of no help.

In those cases, by all means, fight, and fight to the best of your abilities. In these situations, someone means to do harm to you, and it's important to make it clear in the only language that they will understand.

Of course, there can be consequences to deal with after the brouhaha, but it's better to have to deal with those consequences while still be relatively intact, than to not be able to do so...

 

[terryl965]

If you do not stand up for yourself weather or not you get your *** kick, if you don;t they keep coming at you. My advice is stand up and atleast you will earn some respect no matter how the fight goes and the majority of bullies will leave you alone if they can'y harrass you all the time not worth there time and effort.
Terry

 

[bushidomartialarts]

It's important to draw a distinction between, let's say 'bullying' and 'bullies'. There are better words, but those will do.

A bully is somebody who habitually uses their unfair advantage (physical, intellectual, social, political) to hurt, harm or embarass others. Bullies understand only force and must be stood up to, usually with success because bullies are cowards. The goal of a bully is to look bigger than they are by making someone else look small. If you show any sign of being able to make the bully look small, they'll find a way out.

Bullying is the behavior. Sometimes this is done by a bully (or more than one), sometimes by people who aren't necessarily bullies but are having a bad day, or trying to impress somebody or some other similar reason. The behavior is unjustified and unjustifiable. That said, these are the situations where a lot of that p.c. nonsense will actually work: using humor, leaving the area, compassion. These will often work in a situation where you are being bullied by people who aren't bullies. The goal of such a person isn't always the same as a bully, so the strategies that work against a bully aren't necessarily going to work here.

It's also important to remember (especially in the school system) to 'go through channels', as a few have already pointed out. If for no other reason than to have a paper trail of the things your child tried before stomping a mudhole in the bully. School districts are notoriously anti-violence these days and you need to have your ducks in a row.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Great thoughts--Thank-you for sharing.

I remember a teacher in School who said Bullies become that way because they are looking for attention (which they don't get at home). There parents do not know how to raise there kids. NOT enough time spent raising them, and not been good role models for their kids.

That is why many become bullies, drugies, do crimes,...trying to get some attention drawn to them.

Parents must grow up and realize once you have children...no longer you should focus on your life ...but to give everything you can to raise them to be the best they can.

One survey show what Parents want?.. when their children grow up?

The most common answer was? THAT THEY GROW UP TO BE A GOOD PERSON.

Just my thoughts.............Aloha

 

[Flatlander]

There are some interesting points brought forward by "Martial Artists for Peace" on the subject of bullying.

 

[Phil Elmore]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]oung Person:[/FONT]

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Yes, that's exactly the sort of high-minded and useless crap to which I was referring when I spoke of the nonsense being peddled as anti-bully advice.

Bullies understand only one thing: force. To stop a bully, you must make it clear that he cannot bully you for free, that there is a price to pay in time, trouble, and resistance, thus dissuading him from harassing you. Al the "walking away with confidence" in the world won't stop him from tormenting you day after day until you finally stand up for yourself using the language of violence. Bullies don't understand "peace." They don't give a good damn about your "character." They understand only predator and prey relationships.

 

[Hand Sword]

In schools, Yes, stand up to bullies! In the adult world, Yes, stand up to an assailant. Your going to get hurt either way, at least have some company in the hospital.

 

[MartialIntent]

[/size][/font]
[/list]Yes, that's exactly the sort of high-minded and useless crap to which I was referring when I spoke of the nonsense being peddled as anti-bully advice.

Bullies understand only one thing: force. To stop a bully, you must make it clear that he cannot bully you for free, that there is a price to pay in time, trouble, and resistance, thus dissuading him from harassing you. Al the "walking away with confidence" in the world won't stop him from tormenting you day after day until you finally stand up for yourself using the language of violence. Bullies don't understand "peace." They don't give a good damn about your "character." They understand only predator and prey relationships.

I'd agree that so insidiously nowadays, empathizing with the victim is overlooked at the expense of understanding and rehabilitating the offender. I've read of *way* too many kids locally where I live who have been so affected and traumatized by bullying that they have seen no recourse but to take their own lives...

I believe these tragedies could have been averted if these poor kids had felt there was some other vehicle for resolution besides the turn the other cheek or walk away with confidence. There are many alternative resolutions to bullying situations but unfortunately we seem hell bent on cajoling the offenders and it's persistently at the expense of protecting our young people who are being victimized.

Despite the peace-seeking tenets of my martial art, it's never been about avoiding conflicts where one has presented itself to you. It is however concerned with best practice for complete closure on a conflict. Walking away never solved anything. Likewise, fighting back doesn't necessarily equate to physical contact. Often it's enough that the victim of bullying can muster sufficient courage just to show *intent* to follow through should the bully wish to continue the harassment. It's this courage that we should seek to engender in our kids, not servile submission.

Fight back!

Respects!

 

[Hand Sword]

Right on! Turning the other cheek gets you 2 black eyes, instead of 1.

 

[Flatlander]

[/size][/font]
[/list]Yes, that's exactly the sort of high-minded and useless crap to which I was referring when I spoke of the nonsense being peddled as anti-bully advice.

I won't disagree that fighting back may be a useful strategy in dealing with bullies. I will assert, however, that this is a strategy that won't be appropriate or applicable for all people. Each individual will have to come up with a response which they're comfortable with - force will not be everyone's solution. Under those circumstances, perhaps the availability of alternative strategies and supports can be a useful thing.

 

[Phil Elmore]

I think that's most often wishful thinking.

 

[shesulsa]

I think that's most often wishful thinking.

I think that depends upon the age, venue and nature of the situation.

 

[Phil Elmore]

I don't. Bullying is bullying.

 

[Flatlander]

I don't. Bullying is bullying.

So, are you asserting that force is the only response for all victims of bullying? I don't buy that. It's quite simply not going to be a reasonable course of actions for all victims in all circumstances. To suggest a blanket fix all solution is an oversimplification of the issue, and could quite possibly encourage children to expose themselves to unecessary danger. It's an irresponsible recommendation, IMO.

There are times when intervention is necessary by parents, school officials, or even psychologists. Being bullied is not the fault of the victim - it's the manifestation of a troubled child's aggression. To advise a child in all circumstances to respond with force without taking the time to understand the specifics is lazy, dangerous, immature, and uncivilized.