Breathe Through Your Hands

[Gweilo]

Please can someone help me understand what is meant by 'Breathe Through Your Hands'

In the art I train in, it is similar to what others have posted, visualisation techniques, predominantly we use this technique for moving tension, for example, (hyperphetcal senario) you place your knee on my calf, and apply lots of pressure, it is painful, this pain can lock the whole body, the transference of tension allows me to free myself from the pain lock up, move another part or parts of my body, in order to escape or counter. This is a basic explanation.

 

[Gweilo]

If only this way true, scientific research is based on funding and or private backing and profit potential, and unfortunately, internal arts are low on profitability compared to pharmaceutical reseach.

well no, science is quite happy to accept the existence of unexplained phenomena, provide that the phonomia can be reliably observed and or measured, the raise of science is based on taking unexlained phenomena and finding the explanation for it. explanation that can themselves be tested and measured.

what scieniance doesn't do, is take a set of circumstances it can't explain and immediately jump to the conclusion that it's god or some other supernatural explination, this approach lead to a marked reduction in the burning of witches[/QUOTE)

 

[jobo]

If only this way true, scientific research is based on funding and or private backing and profit potential, and unfortunately, internal arts are low on profitability compared to pharmaceutical reseach.

that's a bit disingenuous, its probably true that the biggest % of research money is spent by drug companies for the ultimate profitability of drug companies, But, the development of medicine by this model has been to the immense benefit of man kind, allow that there have been a few cock ups along the way.

also in order to make better drugs they have to increase their understand of human physiology, and that then leads to a much greater understanding of how our bodies work, also to the benefit of mankind. but there is also reaseCh by very clever, well resource going on all the time in any field you can possibly imagine,

for instance understanding internal arts is, if your not claiming magic energy, is predominantly developing an understanding of the nervous system, and that is fairly well research both by the drug companies and many others, sports science for instance,, if there not finding evlicence of things its because there not there, not that they arn't looking.

I've seen a study saying that meditation is at least as effective as anti depresents, so it's being research, it appears less useful for dealing with cancer

 

[Gweilo]

I agree with your analogy with reference to pharmaceuticals, but it is not a case of they had a look and it wasn't there, it's a case of developing the skill (without the special powers bs), and just because you have not looked, or only looked once and it wasn't there, does not mean, it's not there.

 

[jobo]

I agree with your analogy with reference to pharmaceuticals, but it is not a case of they had a look and it wasn't there, it's a case of developing the skill (without the special powers bs), and just because you have not looked, or only looked once and it wasn't there, does not mean, it's not there.

what's not there? if your claiming an unexplained phenomena, they you at least have to go some way to describing it.

our bodies are controlled by our nervous s systems, therefore if you want to have control of your body you need to develop control of your nervous system s, which takes effort and practice and can certainly be called a skill, that not woo or eastern mysticism, its main stream scienc. people who have control of there nervous system are capable of incredible things. things they can demonstrate under controlled conditions. what you can't do is take it much further and make claims for which there is no evidence and crucially no demonstration

 

[franklinstower]

I agree with your analogy with reference to pharmaceuticals, but it is not a case of they had a look and it wasn't there, it's a case of developing the skill (without the special powers bs), and just because you have not looked, or only looked once and it wasn't there, does not mean, it's not there.

Even the special powers "BS" is not BS. It is just rare. I have been witness to a number of miraculous events, the explanation of which requires subtle energies that are at present outside of the reach of scientific discernment and investigation. These things do exist but the manifestation of them, in a way that seems to break our present understanding of the world, is very rare. Rare enough that setting up a lab and telling someone to "do it" is probably not going to happen and if it does it is extremely unlikely to be repeatable.

I don't say these things to convince a devout skeptic or even someone who is firmly agnostic. I say these things and take the heat from people because there are some people who know or strongly suspect this area of life is real and who need to hear that others know or strongly suspect it too in order to build their whole practice on it.

It takes a lot to train in such a way as to increase ones awareness of these subtle energies. A lot. Everything must change if that is the goal. The motivation must change in each and every moment of practice (much easier said than done), a sensitivity to what attitudes and approaches increase awareness of these energies over time must be gained and then the person must be wiling to switch from attitudes and approaches that wont lead to an awareness of the Tao to ones that do, and sometimes this change runs very contrary to a persons preferences. It can be quite difficult.

Even though benefit from this approach is guaranteed there is absolutely no guarantee IMO that supernatural powers will result from the practice but that does happen sometimes. What is guaranteed is that the person will change into a better person with much more range and a much higher quality state of being that they can take and share with life. What is guaranteed is transformation, over and over again into a better and better human being. A person will grow in humility, softness, femininity, receptivity, grace, fluidity, strength, willpower, fierceness, masculinity, activity etc.

These changes come from noticing how the Tao is manifesting itself in the person and being receptive to it and allowing of it--day in and day out. This is a lot of work in some ways and self will and agenda have to be surrendered and a new attitude of flowing (easier said than done because it often goes against our preferences) is grown into.

In my experience none of this can happen in any serious way unless the primary motivation for practice, in real time and consistently, is for this to happen. It has to be first and I think a good teacher is extremely helpful too.

 

[Gweilo]

Okay, read your post to yourself aloud, I agree with you, you can control your nervous system, which is an internal system, not external, gut feelings are internal, these things can be enhanced with training, just like a kick or a punch.

 

[jobo]

Even the special powers "BS" is not BS. It is just rare. I have been witness to a number of miraculous events the explanation of which requires subtle energies that are at present outside of the reach of scientific discernment and investigation. These things do exist but the manifestation of them in a way that seems to break our present understanding of the world is very rare. Rare enough that setting up a lab and telling someone to "do it" is probably not going to happen and if it does it is extremely unlikely to be repeatable.

I don't say these things to convince a devout skeptic or even someone who is firmly agnostic. I say these things and take the heat from people because there are some people who know or strongly suspect this area of life is real and who need to hear that others know or strongly suspect it too in order to build their whole practice on it.

It takes a lot to train in such a way as to increase ones awareness of these subtle energies. A lot. Everything must change if that is the goal. The motivation must change in each and every moment of practice (much easier said than done), a sensitivity to what attitudes and approaches increase awareness of these energies over time must be gained and then the person must be wiling to switch from attitudes and approaches that wont lead to an awareness of the Tao to ones that do, and sometimes this change runs very contrary to a person preferences. It can be quite difficult.

Even though benefit from this approach is guaranteed there is absolutely no guarantee IMO that supernatural powers will result from the practice but that does happen sometimes. What is guaranteed is that the person will change into a better person with much more range and a much higher quality state of being that they can take and share with life. What is guaranteed is transformation, over and over again to a better and better human being. A person will grow in humility, softness, femininity, receptivity, grace, fluidity, strength, willpower, fierceness, masculinity, activity etc.

These changes come from noticing how the Tao is manifesting itself in the person and being receptive to it and allowing of it--day in and day out. This is a lot of work in some ways and self will and agenda have to be surrendered and a new attitude of flowing (easier said than done because it often goes against our preferences) is grown into.

In my experience none of this can happen in any serious way unless the primary motivation for practice, in real time and consistently, it for this to happen. It has to be first and I think a good teacher is extremely helpful too.

ok, so your claiming to have witnessed super natural things, but no info on how you determined they were super natural, you would need to have considered all natural expkinations first, rather than default togod did it, even you'd need to prove God first

and that its guaranteed that they will become a better person, so you must have some evidence of this to guarantee it.

I'm not a devout sceptic, I'm not sure that such a thing exists, just weary of people who claim super natural powers in return for money

 

[jobo]

Okay, read your post to yourself aloud, I agree with you, you can control your nervous system, which is an internal system, not external, gut feelings are internal, these things can be enhanced with training, just like a kick or a punch.

all bodily systems are internal, apart from skin hair and nails et al. the term is with out meaning in the context of human physiology,

gut feeling are our ability to assess people or things or situations based on previous experiance though somethings are clear instinctive reactions we were bornwere our

people tend to credit themselves with some sort of 6th sense when they are right, and ignore all the times they were wrong, that if they ever find out they were wrong.

gamblers are particularly prone to this, but the number of ritch gamblers that use their gut rather than logic or form are rather few

 

[franklinstower]

ok, so your claiming to have witnessed super natural things, but no info on how you determined they were super natural, you would need to have considered all natural expkinations first, rather than default togod did it, even you'd need to prove God first

and that its guaranteed that they will become a better person, so you must have some evidence of this to guarantee it.

I'm not a devout sceptic, I'm not sure that such a thing exists, just weary of people who claim super natural powers in return for money

I would NOT need to prove

ok, so your claiming to have witnessed super natural things, but no info on how you determined they were super natural, you would need to have considered all natural expkinations first, rather than default togod did it, even you'd need to prove God first

and that its guaranteed that they will become a better person, so you must have some evidence of this to guarantee it.

I'm not a devout sceptic, I'm not sure that such a thing exists, just weary of people who claim super natural powers in return for money

Providing anecdotal stories on the net only works out when you are dealing with people who are genuinely curious and interested and with a person that a trusting relationship has been developed with.

Not sure what "money" has to do with this conversation or people who "claim" supernatural powers. I am not talking about either of these.

In the book "Varieties of Religious Experience" William James does a fair job of treating a multitude of transformational experiences attained through spiritual discipline and the often radical changes these produce in the entirety of a person. If you really are interested in the topic I think there may be no better place to start. It is easy to get access to the book online for free as it is a classic of western literature.

It is fair to say though that the changes that take place, while often occurring in differing orders, are quite predictable even if you are the type of teacher, as I am, that does not tell the prospective student what to expect at all. I like to leave it completely vague and up in the air so as to have the least influence on how it manifests as possible. From the approach I have learned the methods or techniques of a a system are more ways to cooperate with the changes that happen rather than create them. The changes are deep and profound and natural provided certain conditions are met.

Of course while very difficult to explain, these changes in themselves do not prove the Tao exists or that God exists-- only that certain practices lead to certain transformations that are in some measure universal to the human experience.

 

[jobo]

I would NOT need to prove


Providing anecdotal stories on the net only works out when you are dealing with people who are genuinely curious and interested and with a person that a trusting relationship has been developed with.

Not sure what "money" has to do with this conversation or people who "claim" supernatural powers. I am not talking about either of these.

In the book "Varieties of Religious Experience" William James does a fair job of treating a multitude of transformational experiences attained through spiritual discipline and the often radical changes these produce in the entirety of a person. If you really are interested in the topic I think there may be no better place to start. It is easy to get access to the book online for free as it is a classic of western literature.

It is fair to say though that the changes that take place, while often occurring in differing orders, are quite predictable even if you are the type of teacher, as I am, that does not tell the prospective student what to expect at all. I like to leave it completely vague and up in the air so as to have the least influence on how it manifests as possible. From the approach I have learned the methods or techniques of a a system are more ways to cooperate with the changes that happen rather than create them. The changes are deep and profound and natural provided certain conditions are met.

Of course while very difficult to explain, these changes in themselves do not prove the Tao exists or that God exists-- only that certain practices lead to certain transformations that are in some measure universal to the human experience.

well yes you do need to prove, i fnot to me, then to someone,otherwise your just telling fairly stories, I could claim id seen a fire breathing dragon on my way home from the shops, but only a complete idiots would take my word for it and believe in dragons. if I found such idiots I could charge them money for taking them to see dragons, and then say if you don't see them, you have to learn to look harder and then charge them more money for teaching them how to look, after sometime, some of them( being complete idiots) might start seeing dragons, through the power of suggestion
. of course if I actually did think if seen a dragon, then you would be right to question my drug use or sanity

and that's rather a close analogy of your argument for secret energy, in fact for any believe system that iisnt built on logic or evidence

 

[franklinstower]

well yes you do need to prove, i fnot to me, then to someone,otherwise your just telling fairly stories, I could claim id seen a fire breathing dragon on my way home from the shops, but only a complete idiots would take my word for it and believe in dragons. if I found such idiots I could charge them money for taking them to see dragons, and then say if you don't see them, you have to learn to look harder and then charge them more money for teaching them how to look. of course if I actually did think if seen a dragon, then you would be right to question my drug use or sanity

and that's rather a close analogy of your argument for secret energy,

I don't need to prove it to anyone. That is your preoccupation. There are people who know or strongly suspect. It is those people who are reachable by me.

You should read the book. There is no doubt that it would expand your mind and deepen your understanding greatly. It would NOT convince you that there is God. That is not the purpose of the book. It would be impossible to read it and come away with the conclusion that people are making this level of transformation up though. It is happening and just what that is is a profoundly interesting subject for any human being to consider.

 

[jobo]

I don't need to prove it to anyone. That is your preoccupation. There are people who know or strongly suspect. It is those people who are reachable by me.

You should read the book. There is no doubt that it would expand your mind and deepen your understanding greatly. It would NOT convince you that there is God. That is not the purpose of the book. It would be impossible to read it and come away with the conclusion that people are making this level of transformation up though. It is happening and just what that is is a profoundly interesting subject for any human being to consider.

well yes people who are already suffering from some level of psychosis may indeed be reachable by you.

I've read the Bible, have to say God talking iuyt of a burning bush thing had me less than convinced. why would this book be more convincing, does it contain empical data and double blind studies or just more enabling fairy stories ?

 

[franklinstower]

well yes people who are already suffering from some level of psychosis may indeed be reachable by you.

I've read the Bible, have to say God talking iuyt of a burning bush thing had me less than convinced. why would this book be more convincing, does it contain empical data and double blind studies or just more enabling fairy stories ?

William James is considered to be one of the most intelligent people to ever have lived. His work is a classic of western literature......... why not just have an open mind and try it out?

Either way I don't really care if you do or not frankly.

 

[jobo]

William James is considered to be one of the most intelligent people to ever have lived. His work is a classic of western literature......... why not just have an open mind and try it out?

Either way I don't really care if you do or not frankly.

Williams James Sidis is considered to be one of the most intelligent people who ever lived he had an iq of about 300 are you confusing them ?

however Williams James the author you refer to has no such accolade, obviously fairly clever, but that doesn't prexclude some level of delusion

 

[franklinstower]

Williams James Sidis is considered to be one of the most intelligent people who ever lived he had an iq of about 300 are you confusing them ?

however Williams James the author you refer to has no such accolade, obviously fairly clever, but that doesn't prexclude some level of delusion

Do more than a quick google search. This is not a fringe area. The author is greatly respected, highly intelligent and a trained psychologist.

It would be anti scientific to conclude mental.illness without reading the work..... also seeing as how it is a classic of western literature many great minds have had the chance to read and review it.


You dont need to begin with an assumption about a work you have not read.

I'm going to work now.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Please can someone help me understand what is meant by 'Breathe Through Your Hands' ?
I've heard this term used in Tai Chi, but it is also used in Kung Fu too. My Si Fu would say to me 'When he punch or palm someone, he would breath through his hands'.

I've been doing Kung Fu with my Si Fu for 15 years. Everytime he say that, I would ask the same question again and again. What he meant by that...off course he doesn't mean you have holes in your hands and you can breathe through it.

I am worried that if I ask him anymore, he would start to get pissed off.
But he do speak in riddle, so it's difficult to understand...hence I am trying to find a different way of saying it...might finally sink into my dumb head.

What is the bio-mechanical action you do to achieve this ?
If one were to do this, assuming they follow the instruction to the letter 110% correctly, what feeling or sensation do you get to knowledge that you have done it correctly ?

To give an example, when you punch a bag. When you punch it hard as you can, the bag will swing badly. But if you punch using an internal hit, you punch hard, you put a dent in the bag. But the bag hardly move...you've know you have cause an internal damaged to your opponent. So physically, you can see the difference.

Thanks in advance for any help.
If you have any opinion, however small. Please please share.
This is driving me up the wall for the last 10 years or so :-(

Lets get this back on track, sorry for my humorous intrusion before; Was your sifu Chinese? or was his sifu an older Chinese person?

Note: Just looked at the date this thread was started, so I doubt I will get an answer.

The reason I asked the above question is that if the sifu was a Chinese person trained in China, chances are it I more of a metaphor.

Had one that was only talked about getting power to you elbows because the hands would then follow. Also there are some in Taiji that say the hands follow the breath. Look at anything by William CC Chen and he goes into that in depth.

 

[Buka]

Science can't be wrong.

The geocentric universe, ulcers are caused by stress, the immovable continent theory, a static universe, lightning doesn't strike the same place twice, don't go swimming thirty minutes after eating, vaccines can cause autism, Y2K.

And I'm still waiting for them darn killer bees.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Lets get this back on track, sorry for my humorous intrusion before; Was your sifu Chinese? or was his sifu an older Chinese person?

Note: Just looked at the date this thread was started, so I doubt I will get an answer.

The reason I asked the above question is that if the sifu was a Chinese person trained in China, chances are it I more of a metaphor.

Had one that was only talked about getting power to you elbows because the hands would then follow. Also there are some in Taiji that say the hands follow the breath. Look at anything by William CC Chen and he goes into that in depth.

A less TMA way of looking at it is breath timing. I could see someone saying "breathe througuh/with your hands" to mean that your breaths should be in line with your punches. So you are breathing through your hand by exhaling as your hand exhales (punches out), and inhale as your hand inhales (comes back in).

 

[franklinstower]

Science can't be wrong.

The geocentric universe, ulcers are caused by stress, the immovable continent theory, a static universe, lightning doesn't strike the same place twice, don't go swimming thirty minutes after eating, vaccines can cause autism, Y2K.

And I'm still waiting for them darn killer bees.

About 15 years ago a giant chimpanzee species (around 300 pounds) was discovered by scientists on the continent of Africa. Until that moment they had only existed in the mythological minds of locals who spoke of them. They just popped into existence when a scientist saw them.