What's a good range for instructors to charge for BB?

NPTKD

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Oh ya, I left this out. I have a Childrens cooking school around the corner from my school. The place charges more then me and its packed some of my students go there also. Now some would say that I can teach my kid to cook in my own kitchen....But there still are people who will and do pay for this. I fell that want I do is more important.... maybe that just me.
 

ACJ

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I was actually asked how much BB grading cost just tonight (they're grading in a week). I wasn't entirely sure but we worked out it was about $160 price range.

Breakdown of what that covers.

Kukkiwon: $ ~85
Boards x 4: $10
Belt + Embroidery: $20
National Governing Body Cost (You get a certificate from them too): Not sure on this one .

And whatever is left over goes to my instructor.
 

terryl965

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Please don't take this the wrong way.... But lets break those prices down.

$35.00 Boards: 1 inch pine 12 ft board for home depot around $14.00 cut to 10 x 10 or 8X8 makes around 14 boards. So you charge $2.50 per board. How many of those 14 boards do you use at a BB test?
Well I do not cut the boards home deport does and it is .50 a cut so that brings it up a little, maybe to $20.00 pkus the concrete slap and shingle thay break.

$45.00 New Belt: The belt runs around $2.00 to $10.00 add maybe $20.00 for the same on it and shipping. So you make around $15.00 on the belt.

With the enbordory and shipping it is around $40.00

$90.00 New uniform: Adidas uniform ( high end) $45.00 whole sale. Low end uniform $12.50 and $2.00 to $5.00 for screen printing, you make around $40.00 on the adidas and $72.00 on the low end.

Actually my cost is $52.00 and then school logo and such brings it up to around $70.00

$75.00 Dan cert: Print shop fees, I use to make these at staples for around $5.00 now I do not know how much a print shop would charge but lets say $25.00 ( high end) Frame may be $25.00 depending on the size of the cert. You could be making upward of $50.00

The print shop I use does the framing as well and it cost me $72.84 with tax and all.

The price of taking the risk of opening your own school, signing a lease, ordering the unifroms, belts,sparring gear,school euipment,mats,advertising,mirriors and frankly HAVING THE BALLS TO PUT IT ALL ON THE LINE instead of hiding behind the YMCA.
PRICELESS!

So I take my hat off to you sir!



Thank you I guess I make around $45.00 - $75.00. I will be honest my money comes from equipment they needs and monthly tuition an well as I do not allow food or drink in the school, so drinks and snacks help out alot. I also sell suppliments to alot of my students and do some seminars to help keep the doors open, what I have found is if I can make enought o break even I am happy, you see since my whole family isinvolved in the school and training and I do not trust some of the instructors in my area to teach what I consider to be practical SD, so this is the only way I can enjoy my training for my family and the close friends I train. My day job is being amath teacher and coach and my wife is a teacher. I commend anybody that has to rum a commercial school and makes a living, people will pay what they feel is right.
 

Flying Crane

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Charge nothing. The student is already paying tuition to train at the school. Ranking should be part of the package, and not an extra charge.

for the instructor, this is simply part of the job.
 

granfire

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Charge nothing. The student is already paying tuition to train at the school. Ranking should be part of the package, and not an extra charge.

for the instructor, this is simply part of the job.

well, yeah, but for the test you usually have extra expenses, like a bigger facility, or judges that need to be housed and fed

The new belt and the piece of paper is the smallest expense.
 

ACJ

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Charge nothing. The student is already paying tuition to train at the school. Ranking should be part of the package, and not an extra charge.

for the instructor, this is simply part of the job.

Unless it is barely a living, and it is not their main source of income. Paying $160 per student to cover costs could hurt some instructors quite substantially.
 

NPTKD

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Charge nothing. The student is already paying tuition to train at the school. Ranking should be part of the package, and not an extra charge.

for the instructor, this is simply part of the job.

Come work out in my back yard, there is no A/C, no rest rooms, no equipment,no insurance so if you get hurt I will have to drag you down to the curb, no continuous training for the instructors so we do the same thing each day, no certificate because we don't belong to any organization ( but I can hand write one for you) you don't even have to pay to come. Just bring me a chicken and a bag of rice each week.
 

NPTKD

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Charge nothing. The student is already paying tuition to train at the school. Ranking should be part of the package, and not an extra charge.

for the instructor, this is simply part of the job.


I see now... your from California... Everything should be free. That is why your state is going under!
 

dancingalone

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Charge nothing. The student is already paying tuition to train at the school. Ranking should be part of the package, and not an extra charge.

for the instructor, this is simply part of the job.

That's my thought too. Instead of back-loading your actual costs of operations into rank tests, why not just charge a no-nonsense all-inclusive buffet fee? I've always been troubled by these Black Belt Clubs that you have to join to be taught anything beyond beginner material. I see high cost belt exams are more of the same.

Say you charge $100 a month for your regular tuition with a $60 belt test fee. Belt exams occur every 3 months, and in your school, it's normal for the students to rank up every 3 months. Why not just charge $120 a month and have done with the mess?

I know the answer likely lies in variable pricing demand curves where you probably can get more students at the $100 + a 3 month belt test than at the inclusive price. Whatever. I still don't like it.
 

Flying Crane

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well, yeah, but for the test you usually have extra expenses, like a bigger facility, or judges that need to be housed and fed

The new belt and the piece of paper is the smallest expense.

well, I guess if you belong to an organization who insists upon things like mass testing that requre big facilities and hoards of judges to be brought in. I never could understand that need.

I guess I'm comparing to our school (not TKD) where we are a small group and typically only bring in other black belts in our direct lineage who are near by. Our head instructor is very senior in our organization, and has been training for going on 50 years. But he does all our testing in a small and cozy atmosphere. Our Grand Master actually forbids testing fees, and will demote any instructor who charges them.

After the test, the candidates pay for pizza. that's it.
 

NPTKD

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and why don't I get the sterling silver chain with the neckless, I mean I already paid for the piece. For the artisan it should be part of the jod. I mean whats a neckless that you can't hang around your neck, rope is cheap.
 

Flying Crane

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and why don't I get the sterling silver chain with the neckless, I mean I already paid for the piece. For the artisan it should be part of the jod. I mean whats a neckless that you can't hang around your neck, rope is cheap.


??????
 

NPTKD

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That's my thought too. Instead of back-loading your actual costs of operations into rank tests, why not just charge a no-nonsense all-inclusive buffet fee? I've always been troubled by these Black Belt Clubs that you have to join to be taught anything beyond beginner material. I see high cost belt exams are more of the same.

Say you charge $100 a month for your regular tuition with a $60 belt test fee. Belt exams occur every 3 months, and in your school, it's normal for the students to rank up every 3 months. Why not just charge $120 a month and have done with the mess?

I know the answer likely lies in variable pricing demand curves where you probably can get more students at the $100 + a 3 month belt test than at the inclusive price. Whatever. I still don't like it.


Have you ever taken a private lesson from your instructor? If so was it free or did he charge you for it?
 

NPTKD

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My point is that weather you like it or not Martial arts is a business, and if you think that your instructor isn't making money from teaching your wrong. (enless it is free). People make thier living off teaching, just like some sell necklesses. The price will always be an issue no matter what the wigit that is sold. Price is in the eye of the beholder. Most people do not make decision only on price... it value. I could charge an all in one price, but some find it easyer to paid a lower monthly fee.
 

dancingalone

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Have you ever taken a private lesson from your instructor? If so was it free or did he charge you for it?

I have taken countless private lessons from my teacher, the majority at no cost. At this point, I am one of his most senior students still active and I'm teaching myself. We're like family. He doesn't make his living from MA however, so the comparison isn't a good one.

Different atmosphere, I know. I will say the biggest MA school in my town is a Shaolin-do school. They charge a single buffet price and have over 100 students. The next biggest school is an ATA taekwondo school and they do well too with their Black Belt Club/Masters Club/etc offerings. There's more than one way to skin a cat. You can certainly make a good living teaching the MA while offering no-nonsense billing.
 

Flying Crane

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Please explain further.

This is just my opinion and I know a lot of people here will disagree with me. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone on this, and I think there are probably exceptions to what I am about to say.

I generally feel that teaching the martial arts is not the best method for earning one's income. When one turns teaching into a business, the relationship between money and teaching can often deteriorate the quality of the training. The need to keep the school profitable, which is directly tied to the need to keep money flowing in, often takes over as the number one priority. The quality of the instruction, as well as the willingness of the teachers to give of their time and knowledge to their students, can take a back seat, especially of money issues stand in the way.

I think a lot of high testing fees arise from this situation. They are seen as a way to boost profit, and the notion is presented in such a way as to get the students to accept it without question.

If teachers taught more for the love of the arts and earned their bread elsewhere, I think a lot of these problems would be minimized. Teachers can then charge more reasonable fees, enough to pay the costs of running the school and have a small profit on the side, and no need to charge all kinds of testing fees and black belt club fees and whatnot, and also no need to pay for big venues with lots of judges to test a hoard of candidates. Keep the operation smaller, keep it in-house, and to hell with the big orgs and whatnot. Of course this also means that the teacher has the luxury of choosing who he will accept as a student, and doesn't need to take any schmoe who walks in off the street. This keeps the bad apples out of the school, or simply eliminates those who might not be a good fit with the rest of the group. The income generated is not critical to the teacher's very survival, so turning away a potential student doesn't harm him.

In addition to the school I mentioned above in which I train, I also have trained for over a decade with a kung fu sifu. He recently introduced me to his uncle, from whom he learned his White Crane some 40 or more years ago. His uncle agreed to take me as a student, even tho he has retired from taking new students, and only has four others each of whom have been with him for several decades. I pay him a reasonable monthy fee, we train in his back yard on the weekends and at night during the week, there are no facilities to speak of, but it's great training. And while he is retired from his job now, this man did have a career separate from his teaching, and that is how he made his living. I think it works very well and ensures a higher quality of training, altho it does limit the number of people who can get involved. But that's the trade-off. If my sifu had not been willing to make the introduction, I would not have had this opportunity. The door was closed to everyone, including me.

But of course martial arts today is big business, and with things like the Olympics on the line, I realize that my vision of how things ought to be done is not shared by everyone.
 

ACJ

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That is kinda the thing though, and what I was trying to say, that if they are one of those types of instructors it is reasonable to ask a testing fee, so as that each student is essentially buying their own belt and boards and stuff. If an instructor was to pay for each students' boards when they aren't making much if any profit, then it would start adding up and make them unable to teach just for the love of it, as it starts to impact on them financially.
 
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