Black Belt Definiton

[Martial_Kumite]

HELLO WORLD. I would like to get peoples opinion on what a "Black belt" (or an equivalent) actually corresponds to. What does it mean to be a black belt (Other than wearing a piece of fabric)? The day of a "Black belt"? Thoughts and opinions wanted.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

For me it's nothing more than a title that is often completely misunderstood and overhyped, very similar to the title of "Master". I'm very glad that the school I'm at doesn't do any kind of coloured belts and my instructor would never dream of calling himself a Master.

 

[kuniggety]

There's a wide spectrum in definitions and it depends on the art and even more so the school/instructor. There's schools that award a black belt to a person with only a couple of years experience, i.e. When they've transitioned from the beginner to the intermediate stage and those that wait 2-3 times as long and have it mark the transition to the advanced or expert stage. I don't think there's a problem with it in any case but people just have to realize their "black belt" might be the equivalent of a "colored belt" somewhere else and vice versa. It only has meaning within that particular art/school.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

HELLO WORLD. I would like to get peoples opinion on what a "Black belt" (or an equivalent) actually corresponds to. What does it mean to be a black belt (Other than wearing a piece of fabric)? The day of a "Black belt"? Thoughts and opinions wanted.

This varies widely and wildly. It definitely differs from art to art, even at times from group to group within an art. I'll give some examples I'm familiar with:

• Within mainline NGA (my primary art), BB usually takes 7-10 years (5 is considered quick), and includes the entire core curriculum and instructor training. So, within that group (including the NGAA, the largest organization), the BB means "instructor". There's a significant amount of testing for both brown and black, including long self-defense tests.
• Within my curriculum, it's the same as within mainline NGA, except that I don't certify instructors when they get their BB. There's another step for that. So, within my group, BB means "senior student" if you only have the one white stripe. (Red stripes indicate "instructor", then "senior instructor".)
• Within BJJ (and others can give better detail on this), there's no clear cut-off for instructor. A blue belt can teach a newcomer because of the progression of the art. There, BB basically means "elite practitioner". They are very good at what they do.

There are styles where BB means you've gotten all the curriculum, and are now ready to actually work at getting good with it. There are also, I believe, styles where BB just means you have the basics down okay (not even the full curriculum) and are now a serious student. In many arts, BB is an instructor. In some, you can't instruct until 5th degree black.

In other words, it means whatever it means to the group in question, and not much beyond that. My BB has specific meaning that folks within NGA will understand (I earned mine within the mainline ranking). It doesn't mean the same thing even in related arts, and if I visit as a student, I usually wear a white belt, instead.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Yudansha sit at the adult''s table at the family dinner.

 

[Paul_D]

HELLO WORLD. I would like to get peoples opinion on what a "Black belt" (or an equivalent) actually corresponds to. What does it mean to be a black belt (Other than wearing a piece of fabric)? The day of a "Black belt"? Thoughts and opinions wanted.

It means you have a basic ability to perform the techniques.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What a black belt really is
What should a black belt be?
Whats a black belt to you
What does a Black Belt mean?
black belt standards

There are about a hundred different threads that come up if you type "what is a black belt" in the search bar, all with similar questions being asked. Any one of those can probably tell you the opinions of people on this site.

 

[Gfreak]

Really just depends on the martial art.

From what I"ve seen in many styles of Karate/Taekwondo. A black belt is a basic level of competency in the art. And shows that you're now really ready to begin learning.

In Kuk sool (my secondary art). 1st degree is a "instructor in training". But still really only shows that you've learned all of the basics.

The REAL training usually begins after 1st degree IMO.

In BJJ (my main art). A Black belt is much closer to mastery compared to many martial arts. As degrees after that, are just time in grade. At that point, you've most likely been training for 10+ years. and can fully teach the art as well. (though there are 2 different black belts as well.)

 

[Spinedoc]

In Aikikai Aikido, earning a black belt means you have only really just begun. It will take between 6-10 years, 6 being pretty fast, and really only signifies that you have good technique, smooth, flowing movements, good ukemi, and that you have basically mastered all the basics.....Nothing more. It means you are really ready to start interpreting the art and developing your own..."style"....

 

[ks - learning to fly]

The Black Belt I wear is a bi-product of the work I've done
Black Belt is the beginning of serious training
It is just as hard to BE a Black Belt as it is to earn one.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

The Black Belt I wear is a bi-product of the work I've done
Black Belt is the beginning of serious training
It is just as hard to BE a Black Belt as it is to earn one.

No offence but I really don't like the whole "black belt is the beginning of serious training" as it implies that all the training you do up until getting your blackbelt means hardly anything. Can you not be a serious practitioner if you don't have a blackbelt? Surely you can have a white belt who takes their training 100% seriously? Or perhaps you are thinking about the amount of effort it takes to progress beyond a blackbelt. Again I would dispute that, as more often than not the first year of your training is the hardest, from a mental and physical standpoint. When you first start on your path you have to get into the mindset of training regularly and in the beginning there is a lot to remember. The basics when you first start take a lot of time and effort, particularly in Chinese Martial Arts where you are held on the basics for an extended period of time until you have mastered them. Once you have mastered those basics you start to progress a lot quicker, but in the beginning it's hard to keep your motivation, to keep training when you are doing the same thing week in week out with no seeming end in sight.

Just to put this into context, my Instructor's Instructor's Master, when he first started had to practice his first Taolu for 3 years before he was allowed to move onto anything more advanced (bearing in mind there are 20 different Taolu in our system). Then he went to a different instructor who told him he was doing it all wrong and had him train for another 3 years, still on the first form. That's 6 years of just the basics. Being able to see that through and not just quit from despair takes a hell of a lot. However, once you are past that point of mastering the basics, the rest of the system comes very quickly and easily.

 

[Headhunter]

No offence but I really don't like the whole "black belt is the beginning of serious training" as it implies that all the training you do up until getting your blackbelt means hardly anything. Can you not be a serious practitioner if you don't have a blackbelt? Surely you can have a white belt who takes their training 100% seriously? Or perhaps you are thinking about the amount of effort it takes to progress beyond a blackbelt. Again I would dispute that, as more often than not the first year of your training is the hardest, from a mental and physical standpoint. When you first start on your path you have to get into the mindset of training regularly and in the beginning there is a lot to remember. The basics when you first start take a lot of time and effort, particularly in Chinese Martial Arts where you are held on the basics for an extended period of time until you have mastered them. Once you have mastered those basics you start to progress a lot quicker, but in the beginning it's hard to keep your motivation, to keep training when you are doing the same thing week in week out with no seeming end in sight.

Just to put this into context, my Instructor's Instructor's Master, when he first started had to practice his first Taolu for 3 years before he was allowed to move onto anything more advanced (bearing in mind there are 20 different Taolu in our system). Then he went to a different instructor who told him he was doing it all wrong and had him train for another 3 years, still on the first form. That's 6 years of just the basics. Being able to see that through and not just quit from despair takes a hell of a lot. However, once you are past that point of mastering the basics, the rest of the system comes very quickly and easily.

Yeah I hate that to. I get the theory by it but when someone says you only start learning at black belt...it makes no sense because you had to learn the stuff to get the belt.,..a better saying would be you start learning /more/ about the basics as a black belt since when you get it there's not much new material to learn so you can focus the other stuff

 

[Gfreak]

No offence but I really don't like the whole "black belt is the beginning of serious training" as it implies that all the training you do up until getting your blackbelt means hardly anything. Can you not be a serious practitioner if you don't have a blackbelt? Surely you can have a white belt who takes their training 100% seriously? Or perhaps you are thinking about the amount of effort it takes to progress beyond a blackbelt. Again I would dispute that, as more often than not the first year of your training is the hardest, from a mental and physical standpoint. When you first start on your path you have to get into the mindset of training regularly and in the beginning there is a lot to remember. The basics when you first start take a lot of time and effort, particularly in Chinese Martial Arts where you are held on the basics for an extended period of time until you have mastered them. Once you have mastered those basics you start to progress a lot quicker, but in the beginning it's hard to keep your motivation, to keep training when you are doing the same thing week in week out with no seeming end in sight.

Just to put this into context, my Instructor's Instructor's Master, when he first started had to practice his first Taolu for 3 years before he was allowed to move onto anything more advanced (bearing in mind there are 20 different Taolu in our system). Then he went to a different instructor who told him he was doing it all wrong and had him train for another 3 years, still on the first form. That's 6 years of just the basics. Being able to see that through and not just quit from despair takes a hell of a lot. However, once you are past that point of mastering the basics, the rest of the system comes very quickly and easily.

I'm not sure about chinese martial arts, as I've never done any.

But I don't believe people mean that "you can only be serious about your training, at black belt".

It's more about WHAT you're learning. I.e. before blackbelt is just the basics. Now that you're a higher rank, and proficient in that. You the "real" learning starts. In other words, the dedication of getting to the black belt. has now put you in a place where you can properly learn the bulk of the martial art.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'm not sure about chinese martial arts, as I've never done any.

But I don't believe people mean that "you can only be serious about your training, at black belt".

It's more about WHAT you're learning. I.e. before blackbelt is just the basics. Now that you're a higher rank, and proficient in that. You the "real" learning starts. In other words, the dedication of getting to the black belt. has now put you in a place where you can properly learn the bulk of the martial art.

After black belt, it's still the basics. It should always be the basics.

Also, black belt is a very subjective term. For instance, I have been training 3 arts (depending on where I am at the time) for the last 19 years. I have a first degree back belt in two of them, and the other is unranked. While I am by no means a master, I have spent a lot of time getting to black belt, and plenty of time at black belt, and I can safely say that in those arts the bulk of the learning occurred before black belt. Now it is refining my technique, and working much more on application than I had been previously (this is also not a rank thing...I decided on my own I wanted to focus on application. The main difference was refining my technique).

 

[Spinedoc]

In BJJ, at least what I was told, a white belt is where you will be for some time. A blue belt means you have a good foundation and are starting to get to a point where you see the different strategies and where things go.....A purple belt means you have developed a really good defense, but offensively, you may struggle against higher ranks.....a brown belt has a really solid defense, is really developing an incredible offense, and then when you advance to black belt, you have just a really complete, solid game all the way around...Perhaps Tony or one of the other BJJ folks can weigh in.

In Aikikai Aikido, there aren't really colored belts. Some dojos have them, but at hombu, it's traditional white to black. As I said before, in Aikido, it will take at least 6 years, if not 10 or more. One of my fellow students just took his shodan exam....after 18 years of study. He was eligible 7 years ago, but really didn't care about testing.

There is also, if you are having this discussion, variation by where you are learning. In Japan, when you visit, they will say "OH, you're an American Black Belt".....They reach Black Belt faster in Aikido in Japan, and typically, a nikkyu or second kyu here in the US, would be equivalent to a shodan in Japan. There is MAJOR reason for this.....that is teaching.

In the US, it is very typical for a Shodan or 1st degree black belt to be teaching...that is unheard of in Japan. It's rare for anyone below the rank of Sandan (3rd degree) to teach, you may find a Nidan teaching a children's class, but most of the teachers are Yondan or above. So, there is a difference there as well.

Mike

 

[Gfreak]

After black belt, it's still the basics. It should always be the basics.

Also, black belt is a very subjective term. For instance, I have been training 3 arts (depending on where I am at the time) for the last 19 years. I have a first degree back belt in two of them, and the other is unranked. While I am by no means a master, I have spent a lot of time getting to black belt, and plenty of time at black belt, and I can safely say that in those arts the bulk of the learning occurred before black belt. Now it is refining my technique, and working much more on application than I had been previously (this is also not a rank thing...I decided on my own I wanted to focus on application. The main difference was refining my technique).

It is still the basics at the core yes, but applying them in advanced or high stress situations, and chaining them together is what would make a higher belt different IMO. And to me, that is much harder to "learn" than memorizing techniques.

At this point i think it's more semantics and differing of arts honestly. In kuk sool, there's a vast amount things not learned until after 1st degree.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No offence but I really don't like the whole "black belt is the beginning of serious training" as it implies that all the training you do up until getting your blackbelt means hardly anything. Can you not be a serious practitioner if you don't have a blackbelt? Surely you can have a white belt who takes their training 100% seriously? Or perhaps you are thinking about the amount of effort it takes to progress beyond a blackbelt. Again I would dispute that, as more often than not the first year of your training is the hardest, from a mental and physical standpoint. When you first start on your path you have to get into the mindset of training regularly and in the beginning there is a lot to remember. The basics when you first start take a lot of time and effort, particularly in Chinese Martial Arts where you are held on the basics for an extended period of time until you have mastered them. Once you have mastered those basics you start to progress a lot quicker, but in the beginning it's hard to keep your motivation, to keep training when you are doing the same thing week in week out with no seeming end in sight.

Just to put this into context, my Instructor's Instructor's Master, when he first started had to practice his first Taolu for 3 years before he was allowed to move onto anything more advanced (bearing in mind there are 20 different Taolu in our system). Then he went to a different instructor who told him he was doing it all wrong and had him train for another 3 years, still on the first form. That's 6 years of just the basics. Being able to see that through and not just quit from despair takes a hell of a lot. However, once you are past that point of mastering the basics, the rest of the system comes very quickly and easily.

I think the idea behind this thinking is that you need a certain amount of foundation to build upon before you can get into the real meat of an art. This is not an unreasonable concept, if the black belt comes a couple of years into an art.

 

[JR 137]

As has everyone has said, it depends on the organization granting the rank.

I teach grade 5-9 science (ages 9-13, give or take a year). I've had several students who were black belts. Most showed up everyday and paid. I'm not saying they didn't put forth effort nor am I saying they weren't good athletes, but a 9 year old wearing a black belt tells me something about the school. And there are younger ones than that.

Were I train and previously trained, black belt took about 5 years of consistent training 3x a week on average. Earning 1st dan means you demonstrated proficiency in the basics and are ready to work on more advanced application of the basics. It means you're no longer being forced into a mold, in a way - the techniques are yours and you can start making them work for you so to speak. That last one is hard to explain, but if you've been where I've been, you'll know what I mean. And it's in a good way.

We had a few guys come from a school down the road. They were 2nd dans. They were at about the same level of proficiency as our 4th-5th kyus were (kyus are colored belts for those unfamiliar with the term). It must be noted that the school down the road averages 2 years to first dan, and about another year to 2nd dan. So they were pretty much on par with us if you eliminated belt colors/ranks and only looked at training i.e. the guys who train there for 3 years were about as proficient as guys who trained at our place for 3 years. They did higher level kata at the other school, commensurate with the higher rank, but that doesn't mean it looked good. It means that they took a 7 year syllabus and condensed it into 3 years.

Personally, I'm fine with taking my time to achieve a rank. It means far more that way. I guess my CI's "good enough" is at a higher standard than that other CI's "good enough."

 

[Hyoho]

As I posted in another thread some Japanese arts (Where the black belt came from) are actually lowering ranks. There used to be tenth dan. But who judges tenth dan? A ninth dan panel. It's now down to eight. One of reasons I stopped taking them was I found out that even in Japan you needed connections as well as a special ability.

I have connections that did not really interest me at all when it came to M.A.

 

[Balrog]

HELLO WORLD. I would like to get peoples opinion on what a "Black belt" (or an equivalent) actually corresponds to. What does it mean to be a black belt (Other than wearing a piece of fabric)? The day of a "Black belt"? Thoughts and opinions wanted.

Too many people think that achieving 1st Degree Black Belt is the be-all and end-all and they quit there.

I like to have folks think of it like this: setting the goal to achieve 1st Degree is a great thing to do, but it's like setting a goal to graduate from high school. The training from 1st grade through 12th grade is all getting you ready to go to college and do some serious studying. Same with martial arts. The journey from White Belt to Black Belt is all about learning the basics. At Black Belt is where you truly begin to study the art.