Best Pistols for Self Defense

[BLACK LION]

I understand that... I really do. But its not our job to parent him. There are many people that have guns that know nothing about them. The posts here are not going to dissuade anyone either way...in the end, they will do what they want...
So rather than try to mitigate something that is virtually impossible to do here on this forum... we might as well put him in the right direction when it comes to his persuit of his second amendment rights....

I am not saying that there has not been some sound advice here...but I see nothing relative to the specific question other than use playing judge and jury based on what he types... He is a grown man and deserves an answer relative to his question...not a lecture on awareness and how he shouldnt own a firearm...

Not stepping on any toes but he can just as easily create a log in on m4carbine.net or ar15.com and get a plethora of firearms related feedback....

 

[Tames D]

I love ya BL but your advice is only going to result in death or prison in this case.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I understand that... I really do. But its not our job to parent him. There are many people that have guns that know nothing about them. The posts here are not going to dissuade anyone either way...in the end, they will do what they want...
So rather than try to mitigate something that is virtually impossible to do here on this forum... we might as well put him in the right direction when it comes to his persuit of his second amendment rights....

I am not saying that there has not been some sound advice here...but I see nothing relative to the specific question other than use playing judge and jury based on what he types... He is a grown man and deserves an answer relative to his question...not a lecture on awareness and how he shouldnt own a firearm...

Not stepping on any toes but he can just as easily create a log in on m4carbine.net or ar15.com and get a plethora of firearms related feedback....

Purely hypothetical...

Do you want to be the guy who told George Sodini what to buy? Personally, I couldn't live with that on my conscience.

 

[CoryKS]

The members of the sites that Black Lion listed may give advice purely on the merits of the weapons. But any advice given here is going to be filtered through the mindset of folks who have given a lot of thought to self defense, and if the poster's question raises red flags in their minds then that is going to be reflected in the replies.

If he wants a purely objective opinion of one pistol over another, he can ask the question on a different forum. Count me among those who think the OP should not be considering purchasing a firearm.

 

[Carol]

Firearms can be, and are, used irresponsibly.

Buying a firearm for a purpose that doesn't require a firearm is irresponsible.

Count me among those who think the OP should not be considering purchasing a firearm.

 

[Deaf Smith]

rdonovan1,

You are 40? Then it's time for you to go to school if you want a firearm.

The NRA has classes just for those who have never touched a gun. Not only basic pistol, but personal protection courses.

http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx

And after that, LFI-1 (Lethal Force Institute.) There you will learn the law as well as the gun. Massad Ayoob, a retired police captian, teachs the class.

http://www.ayoob.com/

Take the NRA class first, but do take the LFI class.

Oh, and Gavin's book, 'The Gift of Fear', is a good one. He is anti-gun but in his book he shows case studies of what I call 'personal train wrecks' you could see coming (but those involved never saw it coming!)

Deaf

 

[rdonovan1]

rdonovan1,

You are 40? Then it's time for you to go to school if you want a firearm.

The NRA has classes just for those who have never touched a gun. Not only basic pistol, but personal protection courses.

http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx

And after that, LFI-1 (Lethal Force Institute.) There you will learn the law as well as the gun. Massad Ayoob, a retired police captian, teachs the class.

http://www.ayoob.com/

Take the NRA class first, but do take the LFI class.

Oh, and Gavin's book, 'The Gift of Fear', is a good one. He is anti-gun but in his book he shows case studies of what I call 'personal train wrecks' you could see coming (but those involved never saw it coming!)

Deaf

Thank you for letting me know about that class. I will have to look into it as it has been quite a while since I have had firearm safety training.

I've handled guns in the past. When I was little my uncle and my grandfather started me out with BB guns. I then eventually moved on to .22's as I got older.

At one point I did own a Mossberg 12 Gauge Shotgun, but due to my financial situation I had to sell the the gun just to get some cash.

When I get some money coming in and as I get myself more situated I am going to buy a pistol first and then eventually other guns like a 30-06 and maybe even an AR-15.

I however am going to limit myself so that I am not dependent on guns like a lot of people are.

My first choice is to rely on martial art type weapons or my unarmed techniques instead as that is the best choice.

When I get the chance I'm also going to get into things like sports as well as I think that would do me a lot of good and would be fun.

For about a year now I've been working on call for a security company that does event security for the University of New Mexico and during some of the events that they have had me at I got to see some really interesting stuff. The first football game that they had me at they had two F-16's fly over the game at the begining and then during half-time they had 3 skydiver's skydive into the middle of the field.

I personally thought that was pretty cool to see. My first priority right now is for me to get a decent paying job in my area and to increase my overall sense of security so that people are not messing around with my car or anything else that I own and so that I feel at least reasonably secure in my own personal protection when I am out and about.

Once I can get that stuff handled as well as my overall physical appearance and health then maybe I will feel safe and secure enough to go back and work on playing the dating, mating, and relating game with the opposite sex and that is what I am aiming for at the moment. I also would like to be able to go back to school and get my degree as well.

 

[BLACK LION]

I agree with what you guys are saying... but I would also be assuming he is not responsible eNough of an adult to own a firearm... Thats not up to me to decide... its up to the DOJ.... and it will be on them if something goes terribly wrong not us or the salesman at the gun counter...
In this thread I decided to take a different standpoint...despite what I can decifer from the op... I looked at the words and sentences very carefully and yes it raised some flags but it would be purely judgemental for me to go off the flags alone...
I just saw a hint of judging the book by its cover without asking him about his history with firearms... apparently he has had them and has used them before...

I am just playing the other side of the fence here and hopefully it will bring more to light so the right determination can be made.

In the end... people do what they want anyway so I feel its better to stress the right points than to just say "you shouldnt own a firearm"... that would actually accelerate me into getting one faster....

 

[rdonovan1]

I wonder if it has ever occured to anyone that I have been lied to and scammed by so many people that I have since become very cynical and untrusting of most people.

I also wonder if anyone has taken into account the fact that I am a former over the road truck driver and that I have had and currently do have a hazmat endorsement on my license.

Getting a hazmat endorsement on your CDL is not an easy task as the Federal Government requires that you be fingerprinted and that an FBI background check be done on the individual prior to the hazmat endorsement being issued.

Federal law prohibits issuance of a hazmat endorsement to anyone that has either a criminal history or that has a history of psychological problems because a truck loaded with hazardous materials can be used by a person as a weapon of mass destruction and that is why it is highly regulated by Federal and State Law Enforcement.

I am just sick and tired of the whole truck driving gig over the road as it is not much of a life and I am looking to create the work/life balance that a lot of people seek in their lives and that is totally impossible to do when you are an over the road truck driver.

 

[BLACK LION]

I love ya BL but your advice is only going to result in death or prison in this case.

No it wont...and I am not giving him "advice" or offereing "advisement" as I would leave that up to an attorney... I am merely answering his question with my opinion.
I didnt see that he wanted a gun becuase someone came in his home and asked about chips... I see that it may have got his radar bleeping and told him that what if the situation was different he would have been screwed and under the castle doctrine(if applicable) he can exercise his rights...
What I gathered is that there have been a couple occurences in his life that brought him to re-think and re-assess his current position... I gathered that there is more to it than just wanting a firearm to blow off the head of the next guy who comes in his apartment asking about chips... I gathered that he is looking into every facet of "self defense" and chose the firearms forum to pose the question....
I think he has more less lethal questions as well...

 

[BLACK LION]

killer chimps? if you are seriously concerned about killer chimps, you are never going to feel safe anywhere.

jf

ahahahahahhahaahaahahhahahahhhhhahahahhahhahaaa

 

[BLACK LION]

Regarding the original poster and its maker...
Disregard anything I said as sound advice as it was never intended as such... I saw your question and I answered it without bias, however there might be some issues you want to revisit before taking the path towards owning a firearm...

take care

 

[Tames D]

I am not giving him "advice" or offereing "advisement" as I would leave that up to an attorney

It sure sounded like advice to me but what the **** do I know. At the end of the day he's going to do what he wants anyway so I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Before you do *anything* further I strongly recommend picking up Jeff Cooper's book "Principles of Personal Defense". At this point that'll help get you mentally where you need to be before you do anything else.

Right now you need to sort out hardware( Awareness, correct mindset and so on). Software (unarmed defense, tools, firearms, what have you) must come later as software cannot run without hardware, to use a computer analogy.

I strongly suspect that Jeff Cooper might be a bit overwhelming given the nature of the posts so far.

 

[Hudson69]

Before you jump into something as potentially final as carrying a firearm you would best be served by doing a few things first (and this is simply my own opinion).

1) Take a personal defense and awareness class, the mention of leaving a door open allowing someone to walk in is not good. By law you might be able to "shoot" someone but he didn't sound like a threat to me. The personal defense course might be something more up your alley and at the very least would give you more potential responses to possible threats.
2) If you are adament about getting a gun take a gun safety course first the NRA has two courses First Steps and Basic Pistol, I recommend Basic Pistol since it is longer and covers more informtation (and this would only be the first class you would want to take; just owning a gun doesn't mean you are good with it or even safe with it).
3) Talk to law enforcement and find out what the law is and take it to heart; find out other cases where people did something that you are imagining taking place and see what the end result is and see if you are willing to risk everything you hold dear so you dont have to "run" from a fight; since you sound a might too eager to get your hands around a multi-launch capable, solid metal missile firing device.

If you go through all of this and you have the right to bear arms then try out a slew of guns and find the one that works for you, not your buddy, not your brother, not the one recommended by the gun shop but the one that you have tried (50+ rounds with) and you can handle the kick, the reloads, you dont flinch and basically feel comfortable with.

After a .22 in the hands of a skilled marksman who likes his .22 is far deadlier than the .44 mag in the hands of a nervous twit who just wanted a cannon.

 

[rdonovan1]

there is another very worthwhile book called "the gift of fear' by gavin debecker. i think the information in it will do much more to protect you than a firearm at this point.

jf

I just saw that book today while at Border's. It looked pretty interesting, but I did not have time to actually sit down and really take a look at it.

I did however notice that they had several other books relating to the topic of fear. I can't say that I fully understand the concept of fear and it is something that I am definitely interested in learning more about.

I do know however from reading a book called 'Feel the fear and do it anyway' by Susan Jeffers, PHD that you just cannot let your feel control you at all.

A couple of other books that I am aware of that I have is 'Vital Lies, Simple Truths' by Daniel Goleman and most recently 'Toxic People' by Lillian Glass, PHD.

While I haven't yet read the book by Daniel Goleman as of yet, I do understand that there are a lot of people out there that can and do tend to lie to themselve's about a lot of things and I personally think that is not only stupid, but sick as well as that totally goes against the whole concept of self confidence and self esteem as you cannot allow yourself to be so afraid of things that you are afraid to step out your door.

I know that there will probably be a lot of people that either cannot or will not understand this at all, but one of the things that really gets me a lot is that there are so many people out there especially in the area's martial arts and law enforcement that think that you should or have to always be afraid of everything and that is a concept that I personally think is not only counter intuitive, but also very destructive because if you were to end up on the street meeting some guy that for some reason just wants to bash your head in, he can and will see any fear that you show him just like a dog or a cat would and that is why I believe that while it is normal and healthy to experience fear, it should not be something that you allow to hold yourself back from not only defending yourself in a real life, life or death street fight, but even in your overall daily life.

People who let fear get the best of them are only doing themselve's a
dis-servivce and that why psychologists tend to call it a self defeating behavior.

I don't know if anyone is familiar with the old new year's resolutions that people tend to make to themselve's and then break, but that is basically the same concept as you are essentially telling yourself that you are going to do something that you believe would be a benefit to you, but then you end up not sticking to it at all. To put it in a martial art context it is kind of like signing up for Karate classes somewhere and telling yourself that you are going to reach black, blue, purple, or whatever other ranking that you are striving to attain and then not being willing to put in the work to actually make that happen because you are too afraid that you might get hurt or that the training is too hard for you to complete.

 

[rdonovan1]

there is another very worthwhile book called "the gift of fear' by gavin debecker. i think the information in it will do much more to protect you than a firearm at this point.

jf

I would just like to thank you for telling me about that book. Perhaps when I get the money I can get that book and a few others as well and perhaps it along with other's will help me to understand as to why people are so fearful and as to what or if anything there is that I can do to help them to overcome that fear and negitivitly.

 

[Big Don]

The best pistols for self-defense without a doubt:
LOADED
Unloaded pistols are oddly shaped pieces of metal that you can't throw very well...

 

[sgtmac_46]

I just saw that book today while at Border's. It looked pretty interesting, but I did not have time to actually sit down and really take a look at it.

I did however notice that they had several other books relating to the topic of fear. I can't say that I fully understand the concept of fear and it is something that I am definitely interested in learning more about.

I do know however from reading a book called 'Feel the fear and do it anyway' by Susan Jeffers, PHD that you just cannot let your feel control you at all.

A couple of other books that I am aware of that I have is 'Vital Lies, Simple Truths' by Daniel Goleman and most recently 'Toxic People' by Lillian Glass, PHD.

While I haven't yet read the book by Daniel Goleman as of yet, I do understand that there are a lot of people out there that can and do tend to lie to themselve's about a lot of things and I personally think that is not only stupid, but sick as well as that totally goes against the whole concept of self confidence and self esteem as you cannot allow yourself to be so afraid of things that you are afraid to step out your door.

I know that there will probably be a lot of people that either cannot or will not understand this at all, but one of the things that really gets me a lot is that there are so many people out there especially in the area's martial arts and law enforcement that think that you should or have to always be afraid of everything and that is a concept that I personally think is not only counter intuitive, but also very destructive because if you were to end up on the street meeting some guy that for some reason just wants to bash your head in, he can and will see any fear that you show him just like a dog or a cat would and that is why I believe that while it is normal and healthy to experience fear, it should not be something that you allow to hold yourself back from not only defending yourself in a real life, life or death street fight, but even in your overall daily life.

People who let fear get the best of them are only doing themselve's a
dis-servivce and that why psychologists tend to call it a self defeating behavior.

I don't know if anyone is familiar with the old new year's resolutions that people tend to make to themselve's and then break, but that is basically the same concept as you are essentially telling yourself that you are going to do something that you believe would be a benefit to you, but then you end up not sticking to it at all. To put it in a martial art context it is kind of like signing up for Karate classes somewhere and telling yourself that you are going to reach black, blue, purple, or whatever other ranking that you are striving to attain and then not being willing to put in the work to actually make that happen because you are too afraid that you might get hurt or that the training is too hard for you to complete.

I can see there is some misunderstanding among people on the nature of fear.......some view it as a limiting factor, i.e. fear to respond, fear to move, fear to act......a passive kind of fear........that is certainly one aspect of it.

There is a far more basic component to fear, however, that is as a motivating factor........and that's how I look at fear. Someone may 'smell my fear' but they would be making a mistake if they misunderstood it as 'weakness'........i've never hurt ANYONE out of anger.........but i've hurt several people because they 'scared' me..........i'd never hit anyone that DIDN'T scare me.


Ergo, the trick is to use fear as a trigger, and learn to harness the adrenal response that accompanies fear.........i.e. I don't WANT to get hurt, so i'm going to avoid getting hurt by ATTACKING! Scaring me isn't a victory for my opponent, it's a MISTAKE!

As pointed out about the guy on the street trying to cave my head in........he's going to see my fear, but it's going to manifest itself as VIOLENCE directed toward him........scaring me enough is LETHAL!


My uncle, a notorious rough guy back in his day, was talking to a group of my friends one day when we were out wrestling around.......one of them mentioned to him that they'd hate to see me mad.........he laughed and told him that they had nothing to worry about in making me mad, as I wouldn't do anything to anybody purely out of anger....I just wasn't that type....but that I was the type you NEVER wanted to SCARE, as i'd kill someone if they scared me enough......

 

[Blindside]

I would just like to thank you for telling me about that book. Perhaps when I get the money I can get that book and a few others as well and perhaps it along with other's will help me to understand as to why people are so fearful and as to what or if anything there is that I can do to help them to overcome that fear and negitivitly.

DeBecker's book isn't about overcoming fear, it is about understanding fear, why you have it, and that you should pay attention to what it (your subconscious) is telling you. Its about paying attention to those instincts that tend to get papered over in order to be polite to others. This isn't the same thing as letting it rule you.