Being in shape

[Kacey]

Until you get down to body fat levels below 5-8%

There are a lot of people out there that will never reach this level without starvation. There are A LOT of factors that determine how a person's body carries and distributes fat. Humans are animals. Fat is the bodies long term energy reserves. I'd be very surprised if there was an actual study that showed that humans can ONLY reach their physical peaks in performance if they reduced their body fat percentage to 5-8%. I'm thinking the real numbers are probably anywhere between 5% and 25% based on the individual and based on the natural biologic variation in homo sapians. I haven't seen anything to back that up, but that's my educated guess.

Indeed... per the American Council on Exercise, reported on Health Check Systems:

Classification
Women (% fat) Men (% fat)
Essential Fat 10-12% 2-4%
Athletes 14-20% 6-13%
Fitness 21-24% 14-17%
Acceptable 25-31% 18-25%
Obese 32% plus 25% plus

A similar chart can be found here. Note that this chart considers anything below 8% (for men) to be unhealthy.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Does this really matter in the Martial Arts, I mean I have seen some pretty heavey and out of shape dudes that could kick the living **** out of someone. So how much truth is in it.

It is really important to have proper conditioning in any fighting sport.

When heavy, out of shape dudes come to our gym and try to kick the **** out of us, we ride them til they gas and then submit them.

Being a big, out of shape dude will only take you so far.

When you meet aggressive, trained fighting athletes the fat becomes more of a heavy, useless backpack and the fight goes right out of the guy.

 

[Twin Fist]

which isnt the point, terry didnt ask about "is being in shape important for participating in the latest combat sport fad?"

he asked about SELF DEFENSE

something all you grapplers are ignoring.

self defense

you THINK that cuz you can roll with some guy in YOUR gym under YOUR rules that that is exactly how it would go on the street?

pfffft

modern make believe SPORT martial arts have as much to do with self defense as a hot dog does with a warm, fluffy puppy.

It is really important to have proper conditioning in any fighting sport.

When heavy, out of shape dudes come to our gym and try to kick the **** out of us, we ride them til they gas and then submit them.

Being a big, out of shape dude will only take you so far.

When you meet aggressive, trained fighting athletes the fat becomes more of a heavy, useless backpack and the fight goes right out of the guy.

 

[Andrew Green]

in that case.......

ed parker? not a martial artist
ron chapel? not a martial artist
mas oyama? not a martial artist
funikoshi? not a martial artist


see the error in your thinking ?

Oyama and Funakoshi at least where all in good shape, at least at one time. Later in life they became more coaches then athletes though. But both, even towards the end of their lives would likely have been considered in good shape for people at their age. I believe the same could be said about Ed Parker.

Chapel, I have no idea

 

[terryl965]

which isnt the point, terry didnt ask about "is being in shape important for participating in the latest combat sport fad?"

he asked about SELF DEFENSE

something all you grapplers are ignoring.

self defense

you THINK that cuz you can roll with some guy in YOUR gym under YOUR rules that that is exactly how it would go on the street?

pfffft

modern make believe SPORT martial arts have as much to do with self defense as a hot dog does with a warm, fluffy puppy.

Exactly my point so many people believe that astreet fight will last twenty - thirty minutes it makes me wonder how many folk habe ever been in a real encounter. MMA people believe they van wear someone down, I guess that means they are not in a street encounter but in a ring with rules.

 

[SA_BJJ]

Heh. I don't think I'll "have" him do anything. Maybe you should take a trip to Hawaii and visit the Team Kaneohe BJJ club. You can tell him he's a fat ***. Make sure to let me know when you're coming!

LOL - I sense an epic fail.

Kimo knows hes fat. Just cuz you can bench 500 lbs doesnt mean youre in good shape.

 

[SA_BJJ]

try walking and running 80 miles in three days carying huge weights on your back, then engaging an enemy in a prolonged firefight......then roll lol! trust me these guys can and so can the much smaller Gurkhas.

This sounds like a "my dad can beat up your dad" post...jeez

 

[Sukerkin]

Exactly my point so many people believe that astreet fight will last twenty - thirty minutes it makes me wonder how many folk habe ever been in a real encounter.

So very true. My one-time-only-never-again-thank-you encounter was three against me and it was over in three seconds. The only fitness I needed, once the fighting was done, was to run to the Police Station (which was less than a mile away ) to report the incident.

 

[SA_BJJ]

So very true. My one-time-only-never-again-thank-you encounter was three against me and it was over in three seconds. The only fitness I needed was to run to the Police Station (which was less than a mile away ).

You ran a mile in 3 seconds....now thats good shape...

 

[Sukerkin]

Ah, no.

I can see how you may be mislead. I did used to do 4 minute miles as part of my training but 3 second ones ... .

Fitness is a helpful thing and not something to be denigrated but neither is it to be over venerated. If I had to choose, as a martial artist, between being any good at my art or being fit then ... bring on the pies and beer .

Both goals {no, not the pies and beer :lol:} take energy and time and whilst fitness might come about as part of the pursuit of skill most adult lives do not permit enough time for both.

 

[SA_BJJ]

Ah, no.

I can see how you may be mislead. I did used to do 4 minute miles as part of my training but 3 second ones ... .

Fitness is a helpful thing and not something to be denigrated but neither is it to be over venerated. If I had to choose, as a martial artist, between being any good at my art or being fit then ... bring on the pies and beer .

Both goals {no, not the pies and beer :lol:} take energy and time and whilst fitness might come about as part of the pursuit of skill most adult lives do not permit enough time for both.

I know I was just messin with ya....4 minute miles are still pretty damn amazing.:ultracool

 

[Sukerkin]

Sadly, beer, pies and my missus' cooking have conspired to assure that such feats of pace are unlikely to recurr any time soon .

I see your profile lists your profession as "Military", which explains where your focus on fitness comes from :rei:. How I trained to run fast would probably sound familiar to you - I'd run through water-logged fields, wearing boots, combat trousers and jacket and with a rucksack stuffed with caving gear on my back. After that, running on flat pavement, with appropriate footgear and no 'loading' was a piece of cake .

 

[Twin Fist]

it doesnt matter, if you handle the situation right, you can WALK to the police station, the bad guys will still be either knocked out or not inclined to mischief

 

[Sukerkin]

I completely agree, TF. For nearly all altercations that we train for as martial artists, peak fitness (or even stamina) is not a pertinent issue. A fight that goes on for long enough for such to be relevant is a fight not being executed with appropriate 'seriousness'.

 

[Makalakumu]

Kimo knows hes fat. Just cuz you can bench 500 lbs doesnt mean youre in good shape.

Okay, braddah. Aloha!

 

[terryl965]

Kimo knows hes fat. Just cuz you can bench 500 lbs doesnt mean youre in good shape.

Yes he does but the question would be then how long could you stay with him before you are too hurt to contimue. Please do not assume just because he is fat he cannot fight have you ever seen him with the techniques he has.

 

[Archangel M]

"Fat" and "in-shape" are not mutually exclusive. There are plenty of "fit" people who exercise and still carry some extra body fat. IMO fitness IS important, body composition less so. If you focus on the former let the latter take care of itself (with a sensible diet of course). Just be able to keep going when you have to. Not all fights are over in 2-3 seconds, if you count on that you are going to get in trouble.

Fitness in SD is like having a gun. Better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

 

[Kwan Jang]

Regarding body composition, my previous comment about body fat being in the 5-8% range was about the fact that for most males, below this level can be detrimental to health and performance, especially if sustained for an extended period of time. OTOH, there is very few benefits to having it higher than this for most athletic performance. You can be a great fighter and great athlete with higher bodyfat levels than this, but below these levels are going to work against you. Going much above it will start to be a minus to your abilities. How much of a detriment it is depends on how far you let it go and other factors including genetics.

Body composition is one of the five workable components of fitness and all five of them will give benefits to becoming a better fighter. but obviously the effective, practical training you put into self defense and fighting are more important factors. Most real life situations are over in seconds and are quite often "stun and runs", so there is often little need to be in top shape to get the job done. However, increasing your physical capacities will still make you a better fighter than not doing so provided that you maintain the skill side of the equation.

 

[matt.m]

I joined the Marines not the Coast Guard. Physical fitness is essential to me. My cardio is weak, I have horrible knee problems. My speed and power sort of make up the difference.

While in the Marines I always defended myself with hapkido/judo power style techniques. It just worked. I don't get into this "Kung Fu vs. Kung Fu" business. However, speed and coordinated power are hard to beat.

Remember, every block is a strike and every strike is a break. Doing isometrics, calestenics time under tension, slow method reps etc are the way to go in my humble opinion. Work the fire out of your core, do a lot of flexibililty training, it all comes together.

Consider this: A man does 1000 situps a day can take a strong punch to the stomach than a person who doesn't do situps at all.

 

[Tez3]

This sounds like a "my dad can beat up your dad" post...jeez

Really? Then you can't have read it properly lol! I think you may have to spend a little more time with us before realise you don't have to be so spiky .