How do you engage an opponent?

[Ironcrane]

Almost all the Martial Arts training I've seen has focused almost completely on the defensive side of things. And noticed that when sparing, a lot of Martial Artists have trouble figuring out how to move in on their opponent. I haven't had much training time as of late, and probably wont for awhile. But this is something I've been interested to try and figure out.

Do you have a strategy on how to move in on an opponent? And what of opponents of different sizes, and shapes? How does your strategy change when dealing with different body types?

 

[still learning]

Hello, You may want to get the book : Book of five rings written by Miyamoto Musihi ( the greatest swordman from Japan)

Has all the info's you are looking for!

This book is also use by Japanese and American businessman for todays business world!

The strategies in this book..a must read!

Aloha,

PS: Learning about too "un-engage an opponent...? ...something to consider...always!

 

[Bruno@MT]

Almost all the Martial Arts training I've seen has focused almost completely on the defensive side of things. And noticed that when sparing, a lot of Martial Artists have trouble figuring out how to move in on their opponent. I haven't had much training time as of late, and probably wont for awhile. But this is something I've been interested to try and figure out.

Do you have a strategy on how to move in on an opponent? And what of opponents of different sizes, and shapes? How does your strategy change when dealing with different body types?

I think it has to do with the fact that while facing off, there is a ton of possibilities and committing yourself requires skill in reading the other person.
Otoh, if you let the other person attack, this uncertainty is gone and you only need to respond.

Just an idea.

 

[Msby]

Good question...
I remember a time when I was sparring with a bigger guy. His arms were MUCH longer than mine and I had tried opening with a jab and had gotten socked before I even got close. So I let out the LOUDEST kiap I had ever done and he froze for about a second. Just enough time to do a nice head kick

 

[tshadowchaser]

Block and attack

 

[celtic_crippler]

The systems of kenpo that I have studied all have offensive techniques built into the curriculum.

It's not wise to wait for an attack if you observe one is imminent, for no other reason than the basic fact that action is faster than reaction. An imminent attack can be anything from facing off against a fellow student in class for a round or two of sparring to a thug in the street verbally expressing what they're going to do to your face while purposefully walking toward you.

A simple solution is to train some drills that are agressive & offensive.

An example of a simple drill that you can mix the sequence of strikes up to create several combinations with if you like:

• Face off against a partner in a fighting stance (doesn't really matter if you're mirrored in stance or not)
• Shuffle in (rear foot to front foot) executing a strike with your front hand.
• Execute a kick with your front leg (perhaps a round kick).
• Settle, executing an strike with your rear hand.

Mix it up; kick-front punch-rear punch, or rear punch, front punch, kick... you get the idea.

It's pretty basic, but it's a starting point at least. There are more advanced techniques and drills you can do as you become more comfortable being the aggressor.


"He who hesitates, meditates in the horizontal position." -SGM Ed Parker.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi,

As we are not a "sparring" art in the common sense, my answer is more geared to a "street" encounter, although it could probably work well in a sparring situation (with a bit of tweaking), I guess...

To enter and apply a technique (attack, strike, kick, grapple etc) on an opponent, a few things need to happen. You need to be able to breach distance in order to reach them, and you need to avoid their potential strikes/kicks/grapples etc. So to do that, there are a few tactics and strategies which can increase your chance of success.

Probably the most classic is the fake. But remember to have a plan of action here, don't just throw a variety of empty gestures, and hope a follow up will connect. In basic terms, throw a fake deliberately, and treat it as if it is real (because otherwise you risk your opponent "reading" that it isn't, and you won't get the reaction you need) And remember the effect you want your fake to have. Don't just use it to "get a reaction", use it to get a specific one. Fake high, and come in low. Fake low and come in high. Fake left, then come around from the right. As you throw a fake (say, high for instance), you bring the opponents attention to that area, as well as often their defences (their hands, in most cases). This then leaves the lower body open for your entering movement. But a fake won't always work, so stay aware, and be prepared to use multiple fakes in order to gain your opportunity (more sparring than street there...).

Fakes aren't just actions/strikes, though. Street predators (different from a street fighter, by the way) utilise a variety of "fake" tactics in order to get close enough to attack a victim. These include faking friendliness (Hey, man, how you goin'? You doin' good? Come here... *WALLOP*), being more of a "sleaze" (Hey, c'mere. Got somethin' t'show ya... *WALLOP*), being overly aggressive (in order to overwhelm a victim into freezing, relying on cultural conditioning to stop the victim hitting first, or even at all in most cases), or just asking an innocuous question ("Hey, man, you got the time?.. *WALLOP [as you look down to check your wrist]*).

Those are the way they are used by a street predator, and yes, there are more, but those are pretty common. However, the same tactics and ideas can be used by the "good guys" as well. Basically, you can be any of the above for different circumstances. Recently we held a class on what we refered to as "Transitioning Distances", covering both how to get in, and how to extract yourself if required. The "friendly" approach works well if you need to get in close to apply a restraint and removal-type grappling approach, for instance. In our Group Defence, we teach that striking first is the best option, and pre-emptive striking is covered quite regularly. One of our common methods is to use the inniocuous question to occupy the opponents mind, and then strike while they are thinking about what you are saying. And being overly aggressive (when teamed with a good understanding of distance) can help as verbal dissuasion, stopping someone from continuing.

As for handling the differences between the physical assets of different people (arm reach, for example), there are tactics of out-flanking and angling to apply here. Move either to a position where his targets are opened up (if they have their left foot forward [orthodox], move to the left), or to a position away from them (if they are orthodox, move to the right). This is a little hard to discuss, but you should be able to find a position where you can reach them, but they can't reach you. Play with it, and you'll find it.

Oh, and finally, Msby, the use of a kiai/kiap is a traditional form of occupying the opponents mind. In swordsmanship, you may flick the tip of your sword up towards their eyes for the same result. But there are certainly classical techniques that use exactly as you describe for much the same result. Nicely done.

 

[ap Oweyn]

Empty hand: I'm a fan of jabbing in, the way a boxer would. Gives the other guy something to think about other than what he's going to do to me when I'm in range. Jabbing leaves you a lot less compromised than a kick, even though the kick can be thrown from a longer range.

I don't lead with kicks that much anymore for two reasons: 1) Depending on the kick, it doesn't leave you in an especially good position to follow up with hands. Or, more accurately, the long-range kicks don't. A short round kick, front kick, or oblique kick can, and I do still use them to enter in sometimes.

2) Many people's first reaction to seeing any attack is to shuffle backward. If they're doing that in response to a kick, then I've got nothing longer than that to offer. I just have to chase them, which is a drag. Whereas, if I lead with a jab, cross and they shuffle back, they're shuffling straight into the ideal range for whatever kick I'm putting behind that jab, cross.

That's if the person is more defensive. If they're more offensive, I'm more likely to let them throw a few things and look for the spaces in front of or behind their attack. Arcing attacks, like round kicks or spinning kicks, have spaces on either end of them that you can insert yourself into if you've got the right timing. And straight line attacks do as well, though getting off their line first makes this a little bit harder, to my mind.

Just a couple of ideas.


Stuart

 

[corwin137]

Great topic.

Lots of stuff has already been mentioned. Specific "techniques", some ideas/principles too (use of fakes and feints). More a principle guy- ideas like force, pace, fraud. More specifically- combinations, direct lines of attack, level changes, interception, drawing, trapping, jamming, footwork. All in context of course.

I think that coming from that sort of a foundation lends itself to more ideas. Like it's often said- it's the difference between jazz and classical. Rooted in a technique, that idea only works in a specific circumstance, classical. Rooted in a principle, ideas emerge that can be generalized to other circumstances- improvisation, jazz.

Looking forward to stealing other folks' ideas.

 

[K831]

Sometimes you just have to come out and bang right out the gate. However, your question seems to be regarding a sparring match or competition, and not a street fight. It also sounds like you may be considering a situation where you are meeting the opponent for the first time.

“Strategy” is based on what you know of an opponent and much can be determined very quickly. Here are a few of the things I look for right away, that very much affect my initial strategy, as well as how my strategy evolves;

Gauging your opponent:
Left or Right hand dominant? Orthodox or Southpaw stance?
Based on build and initial movement, is he likely;
Stronger than me?
Faster than me?
Has a greater or lesser reach than me?
Inside fighter or outside fighter?

Feint: to quickly address perceptual speed and physiological speed of the opponent
Circle/feint: to determine the above and to determine level of foot work and coordination.
How can I bait him and set him up? i.e is he a “swarmer” a “counter puncher” a “brawler/slugger”? An “inside” or “outside” fighter?

From that point, the strategy is (generalizing broadly) to attack in such a way as to neutralize their perceived strengths – you have heard the old adage, don’t kick with a kicker, don’t box a boxer, don’t wrestle a wrestler.
Set the pace, and chose and angle of attack and control the range to best nullify their strengths.


As Celtic Cripler said, work with your instructor and other students to develop and train “offensive” combination's. Build them around your strengths, and work them at varying angles of entry, do not train strait in – straight out attacks only. What attacks are you fastest with? Which can you launch with the least degree of telegraphing? Do you have power in your lead hand? In your kicks? Maybe you have a very fast, non telegraphed lead back knuckle…

As ap oweyn said, strike on the way in, and on the way out.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Kendo, kenjitsu and even jodo, you wait for a target to present itself, then you attack. You don’t wait. If you see an opening, why would you not take it? Then again, you can make yourself look open, to try and draw the other guy in. In which case, you’re prepared for it, you know where he is coming and you act accordingly.

 

[Marginal]

I've mainly noticed that the people who successfully initiate an attack are better at reading what the other person's doing. And/or they're good at disguising their own intentions.

One thing that's helped me a lot in that regard is recognizing that someone who performs an action is committed to that action. They can't do another action until they finish. (Physical and mental limitations at work there.) This covers attacking, defending, and movement. (They tend to be vulnerable while they're trying to move, switching a stance etc, you know where they're heading when they attack...) Combination attacks etc don't change this since they still have to finish whatever they're doing before they move to the next.

Once you can gauge when they're stuck in a particular vector or movement, it's easier to get in an attack of your own since they won't be in a good position to react. This in turn creates greater mental pressure on them because they're finding it harder to defend or attack, and once you're in a good position it's much easier to press the attack with combinations. Which flusters 'em further.

The other side of that is reducing your own telegraphs and keeping your mobility up. Keep out of the way, move in ways to discourage easy follow ups, make your blocks count by throwing them off balance etc.

 

[Stac3y]

I have the opposite problem. I find it very difficult to wait for my opponent to attack. As one of the black belts told me, "You have one gear: forward!" It works fine most of the time, but against a truly skilled opponent, it can be painful.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I don't know why you would want to engage an opponent, but the traditional way is to get down on one knee, take your opponent's hand, look meaningfully into their eyes, and as "Will you be my opponent?"

If they say "yes," you're engaged.

That's why bouts are fought in a ring.

And when the fight is over, your opponent gets all your stuff.

 

[Twin Fist]

i dont care who you, that right there is funny

I don't know why you would want to engage an opponent, but the traditional way is to get down on one knee, take your opponent's hand, look meaningfully into their eyes, and as "Will you be my opponent?"

If they say "yes," you're engaged.

That's why bouts are fought in a ring.

And when the fight is over, your opponent gets all your stuff.

 

[BLACK LION]

Almost all the Martial Arts training I've seen has focused almost completely on the defensive side of things. And noticed that when sparing, a lot of Martial Artists have trouble figuring out how to move in on their opponent. I haven't had much training time as of late, and probably wont for awhile. But this is something I've been interested to try and figure out.

Do you have a strategy on how to move in on an opponent? And what of opponents of different sizes, and shapes? How does your strategy change when dealing with different body types?

agressively and accurately by ambush or suprise... telegraphing nothing including my intent...
Remains the same regardless of stature...

Many people run into issues when they square off and concentrate on thier opponents eyes...
I never posture or square off and I concentrate only on shoulders and hips, dipping the chin and eyebrows low enough so my eyes show nothing...

 

[K831]

agressively and accurately by ambush or suprise... telegraphing nothing including my intent...
Remains the same regardless of stature...

Many people run into issues when they square off and concentrate on thier opponents eyes...
I never posture or square off and I concentrate only on shoulders and hips, dipping the chin and eyebrows low enough so my eyes show nothing...

+1

That is the best way to handle any real altercation.

 

[Ken Morgan]

i dont care who you, that right there is funny

Agreed. Though I think Bill may have cracked open the Scotch a bit early today....

 

[still learning]

Hello, On the Streets...Us NOT wanting to fight...when we have NO choice but to fight back?

USE anything around for weapon(s)...Don't be stupid...because they will also take advantages of weapons too!!!

When engageing an opponent? ....USE anything to get the advantages...

How do we engage an opponent? ......simple....Find things that will give more chances of suvivial!!!

Aloha, .....lucky for us ...coconuts makes good throwing weapons....than again if you miss...it will be use against YOU!

Maybe throw banana's instead?

 

[sgtmac_46]

agressively and accurately by ambush or suprise... telegraphing nothing including my intent...
Remains the same regardless of stature...

Many people run into issues when they square off and concentrate on thier opponents eyes...
I never posture or square off and I concentrate only on shoulders and hips, dipping the chin and eyebrows low enough so my eyes show nothing...

Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action..........Feints and Deception........from the rear and side if possible, front on only if it can't be avoided.

Almost all the Martial Arts training I've seen has focused almost completely on the defensive side of things. And noticed that when sparing, a lot of Martial Artists have trouble figuring out how to move in on their opponent. I haven't had much training time as of late, and probably wont for awhile. But this is something I've been interested to try and figure out.

Do you have a strategy on how to move in on an opponent? And what of opponents of different sizes, and shapes? How does your strategy change when dealing with different body types?

Fighting can be broken down in to measures and beats, just like a song........attack on the half-measures, between your opponents beats......if you're timing is good, catch him while he's trying to perform some sort of movement on the half-measure........feign an attack, and then hit your opponent as they attempt to respond to the attack they believed you were attempting to make.........lure your opponent in to attacking you, and counter.


Pickup a copy of the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, by Bruce Lee.........some very good material in there.