Basic punching skill 101

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Arent there only like 4 punches (expands if you count the jab as not just a under powered straight or count your other hand) There are at least under 10 punches you can do.


Unless we are getting into restrictive punching and **** like that.


I personally prefer a set up along the lines of jamming my hand in someones face as opposed to a jab, i think the indirect attack to the eyes is a good starter for things. And its all about striking first anyway. Not so good at the moving bit as the punching bit though. :p
 

Flying Crane

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Arent there only like 4 punches (expands if you count the jab as not just a under powered straight or count your other hand) There are at least under 10 punches you can do.


Unless we are getting into restrictive punching and **** like that.


I personally prefer a set up along the lines of jamming my hand in someones face as opposed to a jab, i think the indirect attack to the eyes is a good starter for things. And its all about striking first anyway. Not so good at the moving bit as the punching bit though. :p
No, but just how many there are depends on your criteria for defining what a punch is. It could be the part of the fist with which you strike. It could The the direction in which your fist travels and what kind of wind-up you use. Is a spinning backfist counted separately from a regular backfist? Is a spinning backfist counted separately from a spinning hammerfist? I think could be both of these. And are you only counting the closed fist or do you also count various open-hand strikes?

In my system, if you are only defining it by which part of the fist is the striking surface, then weve got six at least. If you define it by the direction in which the fist travels, then its pretty easy to hit ten or more. If you combine those two definitions and count every variation then it becomes quite high.
 

Buka

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I think its best not to over complicate punching. You teach people how to punch, work and drill the heck out of it.

You show students how to study people punching, how to study film, all the while they are frequently sparring.

From there they learn to teach themselves. What works best for them because - all students are different.

And there really isnt a way (in my opinion) to learn how to punch someone if youre not actively training against people that are skillful/experienced enough to punch you.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Again, your technique will depend on your opponent's punch. I just don't like that dependency.

I prefer "I punch, you block, I grab" instead of "you punch, I grab". IMO, it's much easier to grab a blocking arm than to grab a punching arm.
I prefer that, too. But if he makes the first move, there's no reason I can't use what he gives me. That's what you seem to miss. Working on how to use what they give doesn't mean we have to wait for it.
 

Gerry Seymour

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The jab is only the root of a tree.

1. A throws a jab.
2. B counters with a kick.
3. A catches A's kicking leg.
4. B shift weight on leading leg, and hammer fist on A's head.
5. A blocks B's hammer fist, and ...

Even just starting from a jab, the counter and re-counter can go as deep as 5 levels. A MA tree is then constructed. IMO, this is the easiest way to train MA.
I prefer to work from concepts and positions. I can't possibly train every branch of every starting point, but I can train how to recognize the situation/position where a given entry or technique is available, by training a variety of situations with each. Then I can apply that across a broader range of situations.
 

Gerry Seymour

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I think its best not to over complicate punching. You teach people how to punch, work and drill the heck out of it.

You show students how to study people punching, how to study film, all the while they are frequently sparring.

From there they learn to teach themselves. What works best for them because - all students are different.

And there really isnt a way (in my opinion) to learn how to punch someone if youre not actively training against people that are skillful/experienced enough to punch you.
I'm still learning to shut up and let them work some of that out.
 

Buka

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I'm still learning to shut up and let them work some of that out.

Me too.

Its a strange and interesting process teaching students how to punch. But its not just students

You learn/teach a basic stance, be it Martial Arts, boxing, MMA, whatever. In boxing, what trainers used to do if your stance was too wide, they would tie a rope around each ankle to limit how far apart you could widen your stance. (This was for drills, rarely in the ring itself) Because you want your feet under you. Right?

In Martial Arts we sometimes teach them to drop their back knee to the floor - their knee should be next to the front foot, some teach next to heel, some teach next to toe, whatever.

Look at film of great fighters doing footwork drills, doing bag drills etc. World champion calibre fighters Im talking about. Note the width of their stance.

Then watch film of their fights. Their stances will be way wider than how they drill them. All of them and all of us - when the fight is on - we revert to what works for us not to get killed. Stances widen. It's why I believe live sparring against resistance is so important. It's the only time you'll be training, and using, your actual fighting stance.
 

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Me too.

Its a strange and interesting process teaching students how to punch. But its not just students

You learn/teach a basic stance, be it Martial Arts, boxing, MMA, whatever. In boxing, what trainers used to do if your stance was too wide, they would tie a rope around each ankle to limit how far apart you could widen your stance. (This was for drills, rarely in the ring itself) Because you want your feet under you. Right?

In Martial Arts we sometimes teach them to drop their back knee to the floor - their knee should be next to the front foot, some teach next to heel, some teach next to toe, whatever.

Look at film of great fighters doing footwork drills, doing bag drills etc. World champion calibre fighters Im talking about. Note the width of their stance.

Then watch film of their fights. Their stances will be way wider than how they drill them. All of them and all of us - when the fight is on - we revert to what works for us not to get killed. Stances widen. It's why I believe live sparring against resistance is so important. It's the only time you'll be training, and using, your actual fighting stance.
There's a lot that doesn't show up until there's some reasonable resistance. Drills are baseline stuff, regardless of the art. Want to see what someone really has (balance, movement, whatever)? Make them use it against resistance.
 

isshinryuronin

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No, but just how many there are depends on your criteria for defining what a punch is. It could be the part of the fist with which you strike. It could The the direction in which your fist travels and what kind of wind-up you use. Is a spinning backfist counted separately from a regular backfist? Is a spinning backfist counted separately from a spinning hammerfist? I think could be both of these. And are you only counting the closed fist or do you also count various open-hand strikes?

In my system, if you are only defining it by which part of the fist is the striking surface, then weve got six at least. If you define it by the direction in which the fist travels, then its pretty easy to hit ten or more. If you combine those two definitions and count every variation then it becomes quite high.

I see two main kinds of hitting with the hand:

1. My definition of a punch is a strike with the knuckles with the elbow behind and in line with the hand and going in the same direction. This covers jabs, reverse punches, crosses, uppercuts and hooks.

(a spear hand thrust follows the same path, but contact is with the fingertips. a palm heel strike may also be on this line as well, or as described below. so these strikes may go into a misc. category) (just wanted to cover all the bases)

2. Back fists, hammer fists, rakes, chops, etc, have the elbow not in line with the hand. And in these strikes the elbow often leads the fist in direction, unlike a punch.

Back to punches - Some styles, like Shotokan, typically use a thrusting punch that locks out at the end. Other styles, like my own, use a snapping punch. (IMO, there is a time and place for each, so I'll not comment here on their merits.) The important point is that regardless of the punch (or other strike,) hips and other body muscle groups play an important part, as does the stance and timing with the rest of the body, including stepping if in motion. The effective use of the rest of the body is key, and this is what I stress when teaching - basic biomechanics. Kata is a good way to practice proper basic execution as good form is required to maximize body mechanics.

Once this is taught, the student will have a terrific punch. But useless if not landed. So, some sort of entering strategy must be employed. This is the other main thing that students must learn. I consider this an intermediate level skill. At the next level are a host of other useful things: Flow, checks, mental attitude...ect.
 

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I am not a martial arts master of any sort. I am not a recognised sensei, nor do I possess "credentials" in anything. That said, I have taught a very effective method of self-defense to many children and several adults, with a sort of "generic" method that's based purely on principles shared between the majority of martial arts I've studied, and 7.66 (the seventh rule is broken into 3 sub-rules) "First Rules" of combat.

I don't think it matters what specific system you learn from. I don't think it matters how many "punches" you think there are, or what particular strategy is generally the "best". I think there are only two things that matter:

1) Does it work?
2) Can the practitioner do it?

From there, sure, there are a lot of other things that matter, including strategy; but as to whether a technique is "good technique" is defined by Question 1 above, and nothing else. You can tell me that a sloppy haymaker is bad technique, but if a practitioner throwing it makes it work in 75% of cases in which he uses it, that is TRUTH. And Truth is all you need to strive for in your practise, to bring yourself closer to that sublime "perfect".

Tatakai to wa, saigo ni dochira ga tatteiru ka? Sore dake da. "Fighting is about who's left standing. Nothing else."
 

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