Ax kick bad?

[Stickboxer]

Someone asked me about an ax kick, so I demonstrated versions and launched into a long diatribe on the technique, including pros and cons. However, I had trouble explaining why it can be bad... and it seems such a dangerous technique. Before giving my reasons, I'd like to hear other peoples' thoughts.

 

[tshadowchaser]

This is not the answer your looking for but for me the axe kick is bad because if I stretch my leg up that far I don't walk right for a few days.
My days of streching that high seem to be over.
On the other hand if done properly the kick can not be pulled once it is in the down ward movement. Which means when it hits it penatrates, crushing or breaking what it touches.
Shadow:asian:

 

[karatekid1975]

It was bad for me. The reason for my pulled hammy. I did a jumping axe kick (leeping up then doing an axe kick) when I pulled my hammy. I love the axe kick. It's a powerful kick. But I goofed when I did it this time. I let my leg go past its range of motion, pulling the hammy ..... ouch. So it can be dangerous if not done right. In my case, I was just being stupid. I knew my limit and I egnored it.

 

[Damian Mavis]

Axe kick is good. Only bad thing is in full contact ring fighting you run the risk of hanging up on the ropes and leaving yourself vulnerable. Or if you hang up on someones shoulder and they sweep your leg or push you back.

Unfortunately I've seen firsthand the danger and power of the axe kick. One of my black belt students was sparring a black stripe and the hammer kick came right down on the face...heel first. At first we just thought it was a really bad black eye (black face really) but the xray showed the cheek bone had cracked. That would have been fine but a couple weeks later it became obvious his eye was sinking into his head. He had to get a titanium plate put into his face to keep it together.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Kempojujutsu]

I know this is a TKD forum and this got brought up in class the other night. From a grapplers aspect this kick can be modified when on the ground. It may not have the power that you TKD'ers can throw it, but it will work. Version one from the guard position heel kick to the back of your attacker. Second way is from a cross body lock. Heel kick to face if he trys to counter your lock.
Bob Thomas

 

[Klondike93]

Man that just sounds bad I hope the guy is getting better.

Now for a little insight from all you axe kickers.

How do you throw your axe kick, with a stiff leg or do you bend it first then straighten it out? Do you shuffle step first or just fire it with rear leg or lead leg?

Iv'e noticed a lot of axe kickers do it the same way, rear leg with maybe a little shuffle first.


:asian:

 

[karatekid1975]

I throw it all sorts of ways. But yes, the main one is from bringing the rear leg straight up then down on the target. I don't bend my knee. Front leg axe kicks I bend my knee slightly going up. I also fake a front kick and turn it into an axe kick from the front leg (I bend my knee coming up, then straighten it and bring it down like an axe kick.

 

[Klondike93]

That sounds like how I do it too. I rarely throw it with a straight leg though. I also tend to throw it in combonation with a front kick.


:asian:

 

[deadhand31]

I do it a it differently. I start with the leg folded, and I bring the foot up around the side of the body, straightening the leg over the head. This is so that if the person is closer, it's easier to get the leg over their head.

 

[white dragon]

The problem I think I've come across is that you can damage the tendon if someone blocks it hard or you hit with the wrong part. Depending on what I'm doing I'll switch between firing it out like a front kick or keeping the leg straight.

Do people prefer bring the leg from the inside to the outside, or outside to the inside?

 

[Bagatha]

well...the biggest problem I have noticed with the axe kick is that in order for it to be really effective you have to be real close (I have to be anyway, Im short so...lol) which immediatley puts you in boxing distance. If they move in instead of away, your leg gets all jammed and their smoking you in the face, while your stuck on one leg. Other than that, ummmm, back leg axe kicks make you full-facing for a moment and if your opponent is fast and agressive, they have the oppertunity to stuff you. <-whoouuu LOL

 

[Klondike93]

Some people when they see an axe kick coming get the tar scared out of them and usually move back.

You can throw it from a little farther back if you make sure to push your hips out as you bring the leg down. Hit with the bottom of the foot too and not the heel (more for sport fighting than trying to knock someone out).

:asian:

 

[white dragon]

I think an axe kick can be used from a long distance, not just up close, as its comes in past the guys guard and can also be used to block any incoming attack, in the same way a cresent kick can be. Also pushing the hips into it increases the distance of it's reach. It's VERY hard to block against an axe kick and I've never seen it done when people are going full contanct, no matter how much upper body strength the person has their guard is always destroyed by the force of the downward motion with the power of the hips behind it.

To go back to the original question, I'd have to say it is a very powerful technique and can be used as part of a combination easily. A personal favourite is to add a lead leg sidekick onto it. As the the kick comes down, if you hit the guy you can then smack him in the ribs easily with a sidekick, if he moves back avoiding the axe kick the chances are he'll then jump forward to counter the axe kick and throw himself onto your side kick. A more advanced fighter wouldn't fall for this though.

Just leaving subject a little, my personal all time favourite combination is to throw a shuffle before the axe kick, and depending on if the person reacts or not I might just throw a front kick. If he's going to block the fake kick then he normally won't see the axe kick coming from what was originally the front leg. If this hits I'd follow up with an inward cresent kick, followed by either a jump spin outer cresent or a 360 jump inward cresent. If feeling particularly fruity then I'd do an outer and inner on the same jump. But the chances of me doing that are very rare

 

[Bagatha]

Originally posted by Klondike93

Some people when they see an axe kick coming get the tar scared out of them and usually move back.

I think that is really what you are relying on, usually you can tell what type of fighter they are right away, and predict whether or not they are likely to do that.

For us shorter people, the only way thrusting your hip would work is if you are in the air. I for example am 5 '2 and a little bit and the averave height of my sparring partner is about 5 '10. If I was sparring people my own size, as I sometimes do in tourniments, I could extend the distance of my axe kick no problem. But as is, I know I have to be careful when using it. Actually if you ever notice, people with longer legs do seem to have a higher success rate with this kick, and actually seem to prefer it more. People with shorter legs have to try and adjust for the reach difference, so rely on more side facing techniques. I prefer the side kick and back kick myself. Hooking kicks are another one of those kicks that are wicked fun to do but the taller your opponent is, the closer you have to be.

But all things being equal (including size ) you guys are right, there is nothing that is going to stop a fron leg axe kick from landing on your head short of getting out of the way.:rofl:

 

[WaterCircleHarmony]

"Do people prefer bring the leg from the inside to the outside, or outside to the inside? "

i prefer inside to out. the knee can act as a guard on the way up and then the hip can bring the force down better (more of a natural movement.) Save outside to in for cresent kicks. it (ax kick) can always be followed up with a jab punch combo too for cover.

if the leg is jammed by a kick on the way up then you're still going to be able to recover faster than with the outside to inside ax kick, AND you wouldn't have your chest open possibly even off balance

good for both sport and practicality!

 

[ThuNder_FoOt]

With my axe kick, I always throw it with a chambered leg. This is also how i teach my students to throw it. Basically, you bring your knee up as high as possible, and do a front kick as high as possible. (The higher the axe kick, the more room you have for adjustments, like if someone sidesteps ), then proceed to bring the leg straight down, or slightly to the side.... depending on the situation. I believe the bent knee axe kick is more efficient because it can be launched in close quarters combat as well. Also, the 1st half of the kick resembles a front kick, so this camoflauges the kick and enables deception. Its hard for th opponent to spot a bent knee axe-kick. As with the straight leg axe-kick, its a little bit easier to be seen. Also, the bent knee axe-kick is alot faster.... atleast for me it is.

The only problem I have experienced with the axe-kick, is once you started the movement, the action must be completed. You can't change your movement once you have commited to the axe-kick. So if someone is able to spot your axe-kick, you can be really vulnerable during this kick.:asian:

 

[theneuhauser]

i agree with the bent knee approach to maintain balance and allow you to more easily adjust or cancel that kick if you need to.
:boing2:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by theneuhauser

i agree with the bent knee approach to maintain balance and allow you to more easily adjust or cancel that kick if you need to.

I've always seen it with the knee locked out.

 

[Damian Mavis]

Locked out equals more power. But bent knee is sneakier and like the earlier poster said you can change or cancel the kick midway as opposed to the full commitment you need for a devastating locked knee axe kick.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[bignick]

our school always teaches the axe kick with the bent leg variation...making it look like a front kick....no matter what variation...front leg/back leg..slide/skip in...it used to be teached as the locked leg variation..but not anymore...as for defenses...something i've been seeing in the last couple of tournaments is as soon as they see the axe coming they jam in as fast as possible and throw they're arms out past you to help block the kick from getting up...absolutely stupid for a real-life situation...because it opens up every vital target you've got...but tournaments arent' real life